Ok, can you spell this out to me please?

[itsthequietones]

Dh and I planned to have a morning together at the beach today with 2 dd's. Due to work, dh comes down about 30 minutes after us. He comes over to see us, sees a couple of friends in the water and spends the next 1.5 hours talking to them. Not once does he look around to check on the children.

I'm angry because he just assumes that I'll look after them. He cannot see that when we are together we are both responsible for making sure that the children are ok. His excuses were 'it's shallow water I thought they'd be safe, weren't you watching them? (of course I was, I'm the only one that bloody does). It's not the first time he's done this, it's every time we are all out together. He'll stand and stare off into space, walk off, lay down and have a nap... and expects me to be looking out for them constantly.

He enjoys the fun time with the children, the laughing and the playing but cannot seem to get his head around actual parenting - feeding them, bedtimes, discipline, ensuring that they are safe/not causing anyone else bother.

When his friends had left he came over and I told him that I wasn't happy with what he'd done. He accused me of criticising him and that there were load of things that he could criticise me about but he chooses not to. That's basically saying 'put up and shut up' isn't it? He doesn't want to change his behaviour, he doesn't want our relationship to improve (it's shit), he won't let me know if I'm doing anything to upset him. That's not a relationship is it?

Anyway, he refused to talk further and stomped off. I called by where he works and he was nice as pie. As if nothing had happened - again, normal behaviour for him. I don't know how to change things, I don't know if I can, it's like he just won't engage in our relationship, only when it suits him.

Yes, he isn't interested in changing or addressing his responsibility to his dcs or you. You say your relationship is shit, is that because of his lack of respect and consideration too? If you were a single parent would you feel more pressure or less? I know when I was with my ex the constant expectation and frustration of him failing to be a parent was more stressful than being on my own with ds - at least then I knew I was solely in charge and didn't expect any help!

Would you be interested in counselling or is the gap too wide IYO already?

Someone will be along soon to say 'leave the bastard'

He sounds like he just doesn't 'get it' WRT to DC's safety. I don't know what to suggest, sorry.

Does he ever have the children without you? Can you trust him to look after them? If so, then you may just need to train him, get him used to being responsible. So, this morning, you could have wandered over to him and friends and said "I'm just going off for a stroll, don't forget to watch the dds" and disappeared for an hour.

If you can't trust him to look after his own children by himself, then that's a much bigger issue!

I agree with Bertha.

Lazarusb - It's shit because we can't communicate. I used to listen to him and take notice and empathise when necessary until I realised that he never did that for me. It was all about him. Even when I've brought this up he'll show an interest in me for a couple of days then it's back to square one. I've posted about his not listening before, got some good advice but I don't know what to do with it. I think I'd feel less pressure if I was alone for the same reasons that you gave. Financially it would be hard as I don't work, but emotionally, I wouldn't have any expectations of being emotionally supported whereas now I think I should be.
Today - he either doesn't 'get it' or he expects me to. Think I know which one it is.
Bertha - he does have the children without me, not very often though. I've been away for 2 long weekends over the past couple of years and he's had to look after the dcs. They didn't get to school, but were still alive when I got back! His mother came over the 2nd time to help out. You're right, I could have just told him to watch the dd's, but he gets distracted and I know I would have asked my friend (whom I forgot to mention was there too) to watch them too. I think he can be trusted to look after them, it's just that when I'm there he chooses not to.

Sorrry, I must put in paragraphs.

Of course you have the right to emotional support, but practical support too. Does he think the dcs are solely your responsibility because you don't work? I think it's utterly pathetic that he couldn't get your dcs to school because you were away and don't even get me started on him calling his mother in!

I think he needs to have build ups of time when he is in sole charge of your dcs and he needs to make sure ALL of their needs are met, be it school or whatever.

I have found it easier to really spell out who is in charge at any one time.

So, when he arrived, I would say 'I'm going to X or have a sleep, can you watch the children'?

In an ideal world, you would not need to say, this, but the problem is you do the bulk of the childcare, and you were watching when her arrived, everyone ends up unclear.

You also sound like you were annoyed that he chatted to friends for 1.5 hours instead of coming to sit with you, that I don't blame, but again, really spell it out. I would have wandered to the water's edge and said hi too rather than sat up the beach and seethed.

It isn't your fault that your hsuband isn't great at the practical stuff and it is annoying, but you need to spell out clearly when there's more than one carer around what you need: 'I'm off, I'll leave you to get tea' because otherwise it always falls to the default carer. If you don't want to be the default carer, remove yourself/stop doing things/ask him to do things and then step back.

How old are your children by the way? I am quite alarmed at your suggestion they didn't get to school when he looked after them. If this is the case, I suggest you go away more, not less.

I think your communication issues need to be addressed, separately from the childcare issue. If you tried before but he lapsed back very quickly, maybe some outside help would enforce the importance of it.

Wow. Sounds like he totally doesn't "get" that they are his responsibility too.

The actual going away and not paying attention to DCs for a while thing wouldn't bother me in itself, it's the context. When DP and I go out together or with family if we are aware DS is with someone else we might take our attention off him and concentrate on other things, a conversation etc. But it's not totally one sided - and DP isn't even DS's biological dad. Likewise, when I went into hospital unexpectedly he looked after him with no problems for three days.

It sounds kneejerk but based on the context you've said (that this is always the case, that you don't communicate, that he offers no emotional support) I probably would be in the LTB camp. It's not a relationship - is it?

What age are your DCs?

If I had been you in your situation after an hour or so I would have either (dependant on age) suggested to the DCs that Daddy would go into the sea with them and to go over to him and talk to him or failing that bring over baby/younger children and deposit them with him.

Unfortunately in many situations the mother tends to be the default carer. On holiday with 2 other families I can't think of a single day or situation where the father applied sun cream or prepared a meal or snacks for children so its not unusual.

Like Mumsyblouse I find it easier if I am really explicit about what I believe to be fair. So in the OP situation I would have let DH spend his time with his friends, but then after an hour or so hand the children over and say I need some time to relax and read my book so would you keep an eye on the kids. Much easier now DS is 6 anyway.

I also find that the main way to get DH to look after DS is if I am not there. Therefore it may mean a reduction in family days but they seem to be causing you stress anyway.

Also may be worth discussing on an evening out without children rather than in the heat of the moment.

Jesus there are so many man-children out there. Why do you all put up with them - "training" them? going out more and leaving them to cope over a built-up time?

he can't get his own kids to school? That's bloody shameful.

I would just not bother with him. he doesn't bother with you and he doesn't bother with his kids, you have posted about him before, he doesn't communicate and he's aggressive if you pull him up on it. Just file for divorce on the grounds of irreconcilable differences and be done with it.

Or you could buy him a big dummy and oversized baby outfit from local fancy dress and post it to his work address. Two for that matter. Send one to his mummy too and ask her to wash his skid marks off it.

I agree with rookiemater that the mother being thought of as the default carer is unfortunately more common than it should be.

I don't like the sound of this sentence: "He accused me of criticising him and that there were load of things that he could criticise me about but he chooses not to".

That is very passive aggressive. If he says this again, I would reply "well it sounds like there are a few things we need to discuss. Can we talk about them tonight over a glass of wine?". Follow this up with a conversation about what both of you are finding difficult / stressful at the moment and think of ideas to improve your relationship.

rookiemater Blimey. I am shocked! I don't know many, if any, families with dcs where fathers don't pitch in to a considerable degree. Definitely not as a favour to the children's mothers either!

UA I agree - with my dh it's always been (at least) 50/50. I just think in this situation this man needs to grow up and support his wife a lot more. I would have little or no respect for him personally but the OP sounds frustrated and fed up so I was trying to suggest some ways to help. Tbh, if they did split, given what the OP has posted, I can't see how he could have any halfway decent with their dcs anyway.

Lazarusb - Yes, I think it's because I am with them most of the time, he expects not to have to do it if he doesn't want to. The sense of responsibility just doesn't seem to be there if I'm about. I was suprised at him wanting his mother over, especially as he always says it so 'easy'.......

Mumsy - Normally I do spell things out for him, but our children are 7 and 3, he should know all this stuff by now. It just pisses me off that he can act like this. He complains that I treat him like a child when I do this so I stop for a bit, then he doesn't do anything. I don't want to have to spell it out to him, I want him to step up and be a parent.

We live abroad (having a heatwave, sorry), so we were all in the sea when he arrived. I'd already spoken to the friends but as we all have children the conversation tends to be pretty disjointed. Our youngest was swimming about with armbands on and the eldest was snorkelling, I just ended up playing with one whilst watching the other or standing back from them both so I could see what they were both doing. He didn't see why he had to watch them as it was shallow, the people he was talking to weren't watching their own child much (the mother was) and there were other people about.

He came home early this afternoon just as I was about to go out with the dds and dd2 decided to stay with him. For the first time in a long time I came back to a cooked meal, normally he'd just sit there and wait until I came back (rang me 3 times as dd2 was crying though).

I'm happy to be the main carer, I know he loves the dds, but I think he just expects to do the fun stuff.

Bertie - As long as I'm there he has no responsibility for them and he's free to do whatever he likes.

oooh, lots of replies while I was typing my epic.

My ex is exactly like this. He just has no inbuilt responsibility for his child if I am around and somehow seems to default to 'childcare is women's work'. Even after I left him (in no small part due to this and other stupid and abusive behaviors) he stil did it if we spent any time together with DS. I leave DS with him three days a week and let them get on with it but DS never stays there overnight because XP can't be arsed really, and I haven't made him do it. So he just doesn't.
It's really fucking annoying and I'm not sure what to suggest, because it drove me up the wall so much I left. But, my sympathies.
(He is essentially saying he is more important than you, by the way. His reaction when you call him on such behaviors is especially telling, and confirms this.)

The thing is, I don't want to train him, I just want him to do it! He's a grown man, he has a successful business, he can do it. Our eldest is 7 now (youngest 3), he's had plenty of time to learn, he used to do his share and now chooses not to.

Believe me, I'm tempted to leave, it's just not that easy. We're both from the UK and live abroad. If I left then I'd want to return to the UK and I don't think I could do that to him or the children. I'm trying to make it work but it's like bashing my head against a brick wall.

Just leave. He obviously earns enough to see you both through divorce etc. He doesn't like his kids does he. Lots of men don't like their kids. Or their wives for that matter. They might think they do and they might kick up a stink when that idea is threatened but tbh, blokes like your H don't give a shit. They stand around being pricks. Whic is what they are. Ape men in Boxers. Just Let Him Go, poor little, love. Let Him Go and be totally lovely in the aftermath. He can't help being a full-on twerp after all...like mother like son.

Change that tune for you own dc.