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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please advise with very difficult situation

14 replies

WWMND · 13/07/2012 22:02

I have name changed. I think this story is so unique anyone who knows me very well in RL will recognise it.
Maybe long.. I will try to keep it brief.

At the very end of last year my little sister disclosed my brother (younger than me older than her) had been sexually abusing her for a number of years. He was arrested in my mothers house, his pregnant gf was present at the time and naturally shocked (relevant)
He was released on bail and moved in with his gf and her parents (dont know if they know about the arrest) Soon after he and his gf got engaged. (Found this out through fb) No-one in our family attempted to contact him and he has not tried to contact anyone.
They were unable to charge him through lack of evidence.

Brother and gf married in April (again I know through fb) and recently their baby has been born. I dont know his gf (met her once briefly) but I have been looking at her fb page to see when the baby would be born just because I feel some kind of responsibility towards it - It is the first time I have been an aunt.
Now I have seen the picture she put on a few days ago of their newly born baby. I didnt expect to be so upset by it but it really saddens me that this baby is related to me and I will probably never see it and it may never know any of its fathers family.
I will not ever be able to see my brother again, I cannot face him. I have never really gotten along with him and my sister and I have an extremely close relationship and I almost feel she is one of my own DC. I feel like I am betraying her a bit for even thinking about this.

I guess I need some advice because I feel really torn over this baby. I definitey dont want anything to do with my brother but do want to see the baby, be a part of its life. Brothers wife is 18 and from what I know (from before all this came out) she does not have a very good relationship with her parents. I guess I just want to be there for suport for her and the baby.
What do you think is the best way forward with this? I am sorry this is so long and if I have not explained anything properly please let me know.

OP posts:
SoleSource · 13/07/2012 22:25

Ooh tricky :(

I think you might have to accept that what you want is impossible, at least whilst DB is with your DN Mother.

You can write a letter offering your support, send cards etc just do not have any expectations.

Would you want to let a sibling of yours whom you dislike see your DC without your presence or consent or knowledge of?

Also do you at all fear for this babies safety?

BoysBoysBoysAndMe · 13/07/2012 22:26

How do your parents feel about the baby?

Has your brother been in contact with them?

And are ss aware of what he was accused of? His wife is 18, and it's a very young age to be dealing with such massive issues. I would assume he is a risk to your niece? ( assuming he is guilty of course)

SoleSource · 13/07/2012 22:26

Oh not neice - DN - oops.

BoysBoysBoysAndMe · 13/07/2012 22:37

Sorry-my assumption.

How old is your brother?

I think the only way you would be able to be a part of this baby's life is to be part of your brothers life too. I'm not sure where you would stand legally if you tried to go down that route.

Has your sister mentioned the baby at all? Could you discuss it with her?

WWMND · 13/07/2012 22:47

Thankyou for your replies.
SoleSource Difficult question - I guess before now there was never an issue with either my brother or DS seeing my DC, Now of course I wouldnt want brother to see DC but only because I would fear for their safety. I dont know if brother would have a legitimate issue for not wanting me to see his child, unless its a case of I have to have contact with him to have contact with his child.
Boys My mother will not have contact with baby and doesnt want to. she has completely cut off from brother and refuses to have anything to do it. DF and brother have not had contact for a long long time (that is different issue)
Brother has not tried to contact anyone in family. We have been told ss will be involved in babys life but dont know to what extent.
Again, this is difficult but I can only assume he is guilty. I cannot imagine my DS ever lying about sth like this and when he was arrested he went quietly wihout trying to deny. To me that screams guilt. When he was questioned the next day he denied all charges.

I should add, I honestly dont know if DN is a neice or nephew.. the picture I have seen is in unisex clothes and doesnt have a name to it.

OP posts:
WWMND · 13/07/2012 22:50

Sorry, I was too slow there. My DSis is in a very fragile place, extremely depressed and has tried to commit suicide a few times since all this has come out so I really dont feel its something I can approach her with.
My sister knew the girl was pregnant and was her reason for reporting the abuse. She has not mentioned anything about wanting to see the baby.
Brother is 24, Dsis is 17

OP posts:
aroomofherown · 13/07/2012 22:54

Oh this is a really tough situation.

All I'd say is that from my experience (moving abroad 10 years ago when my nieces/nephews were 2 - 12 yo) I have now developed an adult relationship with them, when I was missing for much of their formative years. i'm very close to a few of them.

Families (whether no contact or not) are for life and a lot can happen. As far as you can - be available and when they are ready, be there.

Sorry this has happened to you.

izzyizin · 14/07/2012 06:06

Sadly, this is not a unique situation but it is somewhat unusual in that your family appear to have very swiftly closed ranks against your brother.

Like yourself, I see your brother's failure to protest his innocence to his nearest and dearest of great significance. As for him denying the charges, that is only to be expected.

However, the fact you have been told SS will be involved in some capacity in his child's life would suggest that your dsis's allegations were not held to be false and you're best advised to bear that in mind at all times.

That said, first and foremost my heart goes out to your dsis and I sincerely hope that the love and care given to her by your dm, yourself, and any other close relatives you/she may have, together with counselling and therapy, will enable her to come to terms with, and move on from, the experiences that have hitherto blighted her young life.

As she is so very close in age to her/your brother's gf, it's not surprising that your dsis chose to disclose the sexual abuse she endured, presumably over some considerable period of time, precisely because his gf's pg.

Given your dsis's understandably depressed and conflicted state of mind, now is not the time draw her attention to the new arrrival. It could be that she may refer to the birth herself at some point - take your cue from her; don't seek to overburden her with information or require her to make any decisions before she is ready to do so entirely of her own volition.

Realistically, you know that you cannot be a part of this child's life at the present time without the consent and or/involvement of your brother and that is neither desirable nor does it accord with your dm's wishes.

Sexual predators are invariably manipulative; in extending a wish to see your niece/nephew or play any part in her/his life you may be seen by your brother as being the thin end of the wedge, the weakest link, and you can put money on him seeking to exploit any connection/correspondence he may have with you after the event, so to speak.

Unless and until your dsis's circumstances undergo considerable beneficial change, I strongly urge you to hold a watching brief particularly as this is unlikely to be the only dc your brother has with either this or other/future gfs.

In effect your brother been placed, rightly in my view, the other side of an iron curtain. Raise it at your peril. And know that insodoing you may be causing irreparable harm to those you love most in this world.

In the fullness of time you may find that this infant goes in search of wider biological family members when s/he reaches adulthood. Spend the coming years preparing yourself for that eventuality because, if asked, you'll be hard pessed to give an explanation for the estrangement without causing him/her to feel guilt by association.

Please take some consolation from knowing that you're not alone; many others have faced, and will face similar dilemmas. Until such time as fate decrees otherwise, save your loyalties and your desire to do right for the children and young people you know and for those closest to you.

OhNoMyFanjo · 14/07/2012 06:26

I have experience of family disputes including children from both sides really. My half brother has children but due to various things is estranged from the family now. I found it very hard after having a difficult time seeing them when they were born / young to now having no knowledge of them at all. I try to take comfort from the fact they have a large family on their mothers side. Also I have a cousin who has come back to the family as an adult, her father had a falling out with the family when she was little but she decided she wanted contact so did.

It is hard but I don't see how you can see tge baby and not your brother. What about as tge child got older how would it be explained?

Lizzabadger · 14/07/2012 06:33

How horrible. I am so sorry you are going through this.

Will your brother go to court? Any chance he might be imprisoned? I think the only way you might be able to see the baby is if he is off the scene because he is in prison or he has split up with the mother.

Until then, I think you'll need to stay away Sad.

I hope it was reliable information that ss are going to be involved. I'd be tempted to phone the local child protection team myself, just to be sure.

izzyizin · 14/07/2012 06:55

They were unable to charge him through lack of evidence

In this case it appears that it can be safely assumed there's no question of prosecution Lizza.

tumbletumble · 14/07/2012 08:03

From your OP, I'm a bit confused about your feelings - is it that you want to be involved in your niece / nephew's life because you feel an emotional link to your flesh and blood? Or is it that you are worried about your SIL suffering abuse at the hands of your brother and want to support/protect her? Or both?

If it is the latter, maybe a brief FB message saying you are there if she ever wants to chat would be appropriate.

If the former, I'm not sure there is much you can do. You have no intention to reconcile with your brother, and I am sure you know that you have no legal rights to see your niece / nephew against the wishes of their parents. I suppose you could wait till he / she is an adult and get in touch then.

I think your main focus at the moment should be supporting your sister (which I am sure you are doing).

WWMND · 14/07/2012 11:09

Thankyou for your thoughtful replies. izzyizin everything you have said makes total sense.
My first focus is my Dsis and I am there for her as much as humanely possible (We dont live near each other but she did move in with me for a month or so, I took her to counselling etc.)
I am worried for my brothers wife but mainly because from what I know she didnt seem to have a lot of family support and I know how difficult it can be to have a baby so young and with not much support... I feel like she must feel very alone to decide to stay and have a baby with someone accused of child abuse.
My thought was to send her a message through fb, asking if she would mind if I had her address to send cards/gifts etc to the baby and if I could get updates on the baby. Do you think this would be ok?
I dont know how big of an extended family this baby will have but I do worry that by the time it gets to adulthood and may choose to find its fathers family I dont know how I could explain never getting in touch because of my brother.

Also, sorry to add details now but this really is outing me.. My brother is in the army and there is a possibility he will be sent abroad.. Do you think this makes it more likely I may be able to have something to do with the baby when he isnt in the country?

OP posts:
tumbletumble · 14/07/2012 11:17

I think it would be ok to send that message, but you should be prepared for the possibility that she will say no or not reply. She has chosen to marry your brother despite knowing about the accusations, so she may think of you as the enemy.

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