Me and DP clash so much, but neither want to call it a day. Is love ever enough?

[causeforanamechange]

Morning everyone!

Well me and dp have been together for 9 years and have a 5 yr old DD with mild(ish) SN.

We both love each other very much, but we're really just not compatible. To be honest though, we've known this pretty much from day one but we could never leave each other because, as I say, we love each other so much. We broke up for a few weeks about 6 1/2 years ago and we quickly discovered that we couldn't bear to be apart from one another. Shortly after we got back together, I fell pregnant with DD(unplanned) and we were eventually happy with our situation.

The problem is, we constantly seem at war. Sometimes it feels like everything he says and everything he does, makes me angry. At times(like recently)even his facial expressions wind me up. I know that sounds ridiculous and possibly immature, but I just can't stop feeling like this. I'm pretty sure that he feels similarly towards me at times.

He still finds me attractive and wants sex with me on a daily basis, I, on the other hand, am really not bothered. Which is ridiculous, because he's the most attentive, selfless man when it comes to the bedroom and when we do have sex, I genuinely really enjoy it. The problem is, I never get that feeling beforehand that I want to have sex with him. Does that make ANY sense atall?! It's sounds so stupid when i'm typing it!

I constantly find myself fantasising about other men, but not usually in a sexual way. I'm usually fantasising about having an interesting conversation and having a good laugh and just generally being with someone who i'm compatible with. Me and dp have different sense of humours and I can't tell you how much I crave a good old belly laugh, which I very rarely get with him. It hurts me so much when I see other couples laughing and looking totally relaxed and at each with one another. There always seems to be tension in the air with us.

Going back to the beginning though, neither of us want to break up. We'll never stop loving one another and our DD has certain issues which would mean real problems if she had parents who weren't together. Routine is massive for her. She loves her daddy and I honestly don't know how she'd get through it if she didn't see him on a regular basis.

Am I expecting too much out of a relationship? Do I accept that we'll always be like this?

Please, I really am at the end of my tether with all this. I just don't know what to do.

Really appreciate any advice.

TIA

Lurker here but this has touched me so much I feel I must comment. This is me to the last. Am actually on the quiet side, but have a volatile temper. My dp on the other hand is very much outgoing and volatile. I have actually found myself the very much calm one to keep the peace. Right now am dithering about the relationship. I love so much but this rubbing off and creation of sparks is actually wearing me down. He takes a while to calm down too while I do so much much quicker. Sorry for going on but am watching avidly for suggestions too.

I read somewhere that people are with people that they admire the personality and traits and skills that they themselves do not posses.it rang a bell for me,as it is true for me and my DH.
Sounds like it is true for you and your DH too.You could try telling him that.But it seems like you are somewhat banging your head against a birck wall about it.It is not seeping into him.
he really has a downer on himself doesnt he?
I think therre are IQ tests on line.My guess is if you google mensa,it could at least point you in the right direction.
fwiw,my DH and I did one when they were on the telly a few years.ago.We came out exactly equal even though we answered different question wrongly.
It has put paid to us having that issue,probably for ever!

bold, lurk away I hope you get some good advice too!

amillion regarding the admiring traits you don't have, it makes perfect sense really doesn't it. I'm not sure what he admires about me though. There's not much I like about myself, so i'm not sure what he does.

You could ask him what traits he admires in you.
And why dont you like yourself much.you dont have to answer if you dont want to.
And are you feeling lonely in your relationship?

You said you are lacking in mental stimulation by him,which I can understand why that would be a problem.Are you able to get that somewhat outside of the relationship,perhaps from work or female friends.Then it wouldnt be quite so much of a problem inside the relationship.
As regards the humour,you may have to accept that you 2 like different humour.Im sure that is like thousands of other couples up and down the land.

I do ask him, but I usually don't believe him and think he's just saying things to be nice. I'm definitely insecure and I've never taken a compliment well. I'll usually look for a negative somewhere. I haven't fulfilled my potential in any way really. I haven't worked for 5 years and i've lost all confidence in my ability.............not that I ever felt I really had it. I see so many other people my age(i'm 28) and they're full of confidence and getting on in life and I just feel stuck. That about sums it up I guess, but i've always had confidence and anxiety issues. When people say i'm pretty, I think "well you haven't seen me without makeup" When people say i'm clever, I think "you're just being kind. I'm sure you really think i'm an idiot". Sorry i'm rambling now.

I accept that our sense of humours are different and to be fair, it's hardly the most important issue we have, but I agree with the phrase 'laughter is the best medicine'. When i've been out with friends who are more on my wave length, I feel like me. It's almost a form of therapy, but when I get home, I get sad because I know that chances are, me and dp wont be doing much laughing and it's going to be a while again til I feel like that again.

Oh god, woe is me ey!! Get a grip woman!!!

"But I don't know what the answer is."

If you accept love is a verb then you both have to agree to do it. It's very simple indeed but it requires both of you to engage to be successful. Talk to each other like friends. Show appreciation for each other & say 'please' and 'thank you' (you'd be amazed how many couples forget basic courtesy). Consciously spend some time each day finishing the sentence 'what I like about you is.....' and saying it to each other. Find an activity or hobby that you can do together so that you have more common ground. Pursue independent interests so that you have something to talk about when you are together.

It can't be achieved one-sided but if you both sign up to treating each other better, it will happen.

cogito, you're speaking sense. Whenever we've tried to find a common ground though, it tends to end in tears.............literally sometimes. For example, I love tennis, but i'm rubbish at it(i'm too weak I think) So we decided that we'd give badminton a go, cos dp likes squash and there's NO WAY i'm playing that!! That game terrifies me!! So we picked a 'happy' medium. After about 3 weeks, it became obvious that we were going to have to stop because all it did was bring out the competative side of us and not in a good way and we ended up bickering again. So we've learnt that we need to pick a hobby, which isn't competative. I honestly can't think of any, but i'll suggest again to dp that we both have a think about it.

The last couple of days have been rubbish too. There's a serious communication problem. For example, He doesn't tell me anything about his feelings and will then get annoyed when I haven't realised that he's stressed out with XYZ. Sometimes i'll ask him if he's ok cos I sense that he isn't and he'll insist that he is so i'll have to drop it. It always seems to come and bite me on the ass though in the form of "it's not all about your feelings, what about mine". I can't force him to tell me his feelings and I resent then being blamed for not being a mind reader!!

Cogito, simple but sensible advice, being nicer and kinder to each other, especially if you are of the volatile type is THE most important and easiest way to turn a quite critical/difficult relationship into a nice one, because niceness breeds niceness. If everytime you say a small remark, the other person snaps, or sighs, or rolls their eyes, or disagrees, you stop making them and it all spirals down.

I have had to consciously do it, and now, being nice is a bit easier!

I also think you are being a bit unrealistic to compare a night out with friends with your husband's conversation. of course you go out, have a blast, laugh til your sides ache then go home. Most people have quieter lives at home, and although laughing together is fun, you don't get that intensity of experience rubbing along together at home.

Basically you don't get everything (well, one or two might). You don't get great sex, brilliant shared parenting, belly laughs, kindness, always prioritising you, never being snappy/grumpy, all the time, for decades. It's just not like that.

But you can improve a volatile relationship considerably in reall small ways, as I say, look at John Gottman's book (7 secrets to a successful marriage) or just make a effort to be nicer, hold back a little (as leaping in and always responding to everything is pretty typical in volatle relationships), and the other stuff (kindness, everyday caring) will start to re-emerge more. If it doesn't, you know you've done all you can.

This is just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't bother with a shared hobby if you are competitive/volatile types. If we do DIY together, it would be grounds for divorce. We work best when both relatively happy and fulfilled in other areas of our lives (career, friends) and then get together to talk about it or spend time just walking or whatever.

You can't force people to talk about feelings but you can deliberately set aside some time each day to ask each other questions and gauge feelings that way. For example, after DD is in bed, have a meal together without the TV on & no distractions and talk about your day and what's going on. Rather than 'are you OK?' which is a bit of a blind alley to someone that doesn't like talking about feelings, try some conversation starters like 'how was your day?'... 'anything good/bad happen?'... 'what do you think of this story in the news?.... 'thanks for (insert kind act here) I appreciated it'.... Never forget that a companionable silence can be as good as a conversation.

Wise words by all.

DP will often say that he's comforable with silences and i'm not. But that's lightly contradictive, because if he wants to talk and I don't particuarly, then I get "well this is fun. Any reason you're ignoring me" etc. So it's not like he's the quiet type who is happy to plod along in blissful silence. He wants to talk, but only on her terms. On the other hand, i'm sure he'd say the same about me. I know i'm not perfect and I do try and work on my flaws, as does DP, but it never seems to last that long. Obviously right now is a classic example. We're just not getting much from one another. I'm not saying it's like that all time, if it were I really couldn't stay.

His terms sorry, not "her"

OH and i'm always the one who suggests dong things just the 2 of us like going out to dinner, whereas DP only seems to suggests doing things with other couples or doing things which don't involve us having to particuarly engage with one another. For example the cinema, which is absolutely fine!! We don't have to talk all the time. My god, we'd run out of things to say very quickly, but it would be nice if he just ONCE said "let's go out just the 2 of us this saturday". Maybe he just doesn't enjoy my company.

cause, there's some classic examples here of stuff that is easily fixable. Firstly, when someone talks seems to have become a power struggle here, instead of a genuine nice sharing of experience. It's perfectly normal for people not to want to talk when they first get in, for example. Or when asked 'how are you feeling?' If what you want is your husband to talk more, then when he does start to talk, instead of shutting down and going all quiet (which let's face it, you do as you now feel annoyed he didn't want to talk earlier), listen quietly. You don't have to say anything much, just mmm, til you start to feel in a better mood and join in.

It's that old 'do you want to be right or happy?' You being 'right' (as in he should have wanted to talk earlier when you wanted to) is stopping you being happy (having more conversations with your husband). You are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Secondly, even if he does make an effort to spend time with you, by going to the cinema, you aren't happy with this as you see it as avoiding you. Again, he may just not be a talker. You married him, he's not going to magically change. Why not just enjoy the cinema or a night out with others, and call your friend for a girly gossip?

I think you are missing the bigger picture, you have great sex, go out to the cinema, he does want to talk with you sometimes, for the smaller stuff.

I also think you are very reactive, I am myself, taking offence at things, seeing the negative, I would suggest that you think about doing some relaxation/meditation/other stress relief so that when he does talk/suggest the cinema, you aren't immediatedly annoyed. I don't mean this horribly, I am the same myself and it just ends up with life being more stresful/negative critical atmosphere than it needs to be.

This stuff is fixable, IMO.

I agree with (most) of what everyone is saying.

Relationships are imperfect and if you have several good parts/points to your marriage and love each other, then I think it's naive to imagine the grass is greener.

BUT I feel you are pussy footing around the intellilgence/intellectual thing on here (not talking about his dyslexia). I think you are saying that you are his intellectual superior but you don't want to sound snooty or horrible?! For me, this would be a massive problem. In the past I went out with guys who were not as bright or knowledgeable as me and I could never bear it. Not that I'm Mensa material - far from it - but just having anyone less mentally able is so draining if you are having to curb the language you use, or the subjects you talk about it. My dh is cleverer than me and I love that because it keeps me challenged and interested.

And I think him taking an IQ test is a terrible idea that could backfire spectacularly!

I'm also not sure about the IQ test
If he's intelligent but has dyslexia an online test which presumably requires reasonably accurate reading and keyboard skills might not.

sorry, I meant to say an online IQ test might not give results which reflect his intelligence fully because of his dyslexia.

mumsy I know what you're saying and I don't think you mean it in a horrible way atall. Takes one to know one I guess Of couse compromise is key, but I don't feel like it's very balanced. For example, I will suggest sometimes that we go to the cinema or go out with a group of friends, but he will NEVER suggest that we just go out for a meal or a drink or have a meal in without wanting to stick a film on and then suggest another incase that one finishes too early. So whereas yes, there's a lot I think I can do to help us, I still can't get past the feeling that maybe he just doesn't get anything out of me.

proud, I really don't think of myself as his intellectual superior. I think I had a better education and again that's got nothing to do with his dyslexia. Intellect has nothing to do with dyslexia. In many ways DP is brighter than me. I have a problem with how different we are in general.

Love and passion is great but not enough by itself you need commitment to make it work. And with the history of splitting and discussions about not being together you are not showing each other this commitment you have created a hotbed of insecurity and uncertainty.

Volatile relationships can be healthy relationships and can get calmer over time. I suspect you and your DP are actually quite alike.

Demonstrate your commitment to each other, run away and get married, accept that the grass may not be greener elsewhere. And see how you go knowing that the other one wants to be there and is not about to do a runner.

I think Proud has hit the nail on the head here.

girls, we're often told that we're more alike that we think. Also, people say that we work well together and that actually our bickering is just sort of part of us, which I suppose is a nice, 'romantic' way of looking at it. However, there comes a time when you have to think to yourself, do I want to be doing this forever?.......That's where I am now. The problem is i'm completely 50/50. I'm actually very realistic, so I don't usually think that the grass will be greener somewhere else and I don't expect the sun, moon and the stars, I just want to feel loved, which I do and appreciated, which I don't.

We actually got engaged embarassingly quickly(about 2 months) and even though we both feel in love very quickly, we agree now that it was way too soon and if anything, it took away the natural excitment and anticipation of a new relationship, because we already went there iyswim. So we never got married. We kept telling ourselves that it was just a piece of paper and that we'd rather spend our money on more important things. DP does occasionally say that he'd like us to run away and just get married with no fuss. That wouldn't be expensive. There would be no fuss or tiresome planning, or family we didn't really want there. It would be quick and simple and I know DD is at an age where she's aware we're not married and is starting to question why. So why aren't we?........ Something is holding me back.

proud, I really don't think of myself as his intellectual superior. I think I had a better education and again that's got nothing to do with his dyslexia. Intellect has nothing to do with dyslexia. In many ways DP is brighter than me. I have a problem with how different we are in general

I'm not talking about dyslexia - of course dyslexic people can be super intelligent or highly intellectual! Let's put that aside. I think you are falling over yourself (probably in a kind way) to say how bright he really is and in some ways more intelligent than you. However you don't find his conversation stimulating. I do realise that people without formal education can be extremely knowledgable and interesting btw, but something's telling me you find him lacking. I think humour is quite a good indicator of how bright or stimulating someone is. I think you need to be brutally honest with yourself too.

You are kind of inconsistent OP (in nicest possible way). In some ways you describe this as the great passionate love - you have that depth of feeling that others never find. You say the grass is not greener but then you say something is holding you back from saying this is forever so I don?t think you really believe this. You are sort of keeping the alternative (life without him) open and he must know this and this insecurity must permeate your relationship like some kind of poison.

As you know, relationships take two to be committed and hard work & compromise on both sides ? even the good ones. What I would suggest (you can ignore!) is that you stop thinking about how annoying he is and look within, see what you are able to work on in yourself. You might just find that when you change things in yourself, the way you respond etc then you also effect a change in him and the way he is with you. Its hard to argue with yourself.

Maybe after a month or two of this it will be enough to convince you to take the same leap of faith you were both prepared to take 2 months after meeting ? ie, the heartfelt conviction that finding that depth of connection and passion with another human being is not the sort of thing you find everyday, that it is a treasure to be cherished and worth taking a chance on.

I have never doubted my great passion. Personally I think it doesn?t pay to over-think such things. I know I don?t ever want to live without him that is enough. The vows I have taken, the ring on my finger and the children I have borne are proof of my unshakeable commitment. Of course if he chooses to break it one day that will be up to him but I know this is as good as it gets for me and that I would be bored s**less by anyone else and/or drive them to the loony bin. And things get ever calmer as we both grow older and wiser. Good luck making the right choice.

agree with Cogito.

We were "volatile" for the first several years of our relationship and personally i found it soul destroying. one day i decided to just be nice, and see what happened. it changed everything.

my tips....

• smile at him whenever he comes into the house or the room. a real smile, an open smile. smiling changes your brain chemistry in a very real way.

• use words to build him up. praise/thank him sincerely every day, even for something small like how well he cleans xyz or plays with DD or takes out the bins. think of how nice it is when someone thanks you for something you thought they took for granted... give him the gift of that feeling.

• hug or kiss or warm touch whenever he comes close to you. not a massive smooch, just a small touch to remind him (and you) that you love him.

• start naming your feelings and owning them. "i'm feeling irritated, it's probably showing. let me just take a sec to calm down" rather than "you're irritating me!!!!"

• realise that feelings "in the moment" are often based on YOUR baggage rather than anyone else's. be patient and critical with your feelings, rather than letting them rule your every response. you can always react later, once you've REALLY decided your emotions are correct in that instance.

• make a commitment to concentrating more on sex. you know you enjoy it once you start, it's just getting over that hump, so promise yourself that you'll initiate x times per month, and see where that takes you.

basically ime, when it comes to change, someone has to take the lead. i decided it may as well be me, my DH is more risk-averse and would never have been the one to make the first move. WELL, once i took that lead, it was like he no longer had to worry that his loving gestures would be rejected, he suddenly felt free to be nice back. it worked for us and i think it's usually worth a try -- obviously provided the r/s isn't showing any signs of abuse.

fwiw now, 8 years in, we are the best of friends. we have more in common than i ever realised in the beginning. it's just that we were so busy being combative in the beginning, all we could see was how different we were.

oikopolis,that is one of the best posts I have seen on MN.