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Relationships

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Didn't know where else to ask this, difficult question, just wanted thoughts I guess... (May be triggering.)

31 replies

theworldisoutthere · 09/07/2012 15:46

This may be triggering, and you may not want to carry on reading this if you're a rape survivor.

I was reading a thread earlier that reminded me of something that happened to me a long time ago, in my late teens. I don't think about it often, I really really try not to.

Basically I was just wondering what you would class this as. I used to meet up with an ex boyfriend a lot in the hope that we'd get back together. He was very manipulative but I couldn't see that at the time and just wanted to be around him in the hope he would 'fall in love with me again' (ah, stupid, stupid teenaged me). But these incidents felt 'not right' and I just want some outside perspective.

Several times we had sex when I didn't want to. I didn't feel able to say no, I basically just froze and let him get on with it. So that you can see what I mean I'm going to have to give a little detail, because it confuses the hell out of me and I was actually there.

One night we were at a house party with mutual friends, mainly from his school (I went to a different one in the same town). After a good few drinks me and one of the guys (not the ex) who liked each other ended up having a snog in the corner. We were sitting on the floor. The ex came into the room (a lot drunker than either of us), kicked my foot (I don't know where he was aiming) and said "Fuck you, fuck both of you." I felt really bad that I had upset him Hmm so when he went to sleep on the other side of the room (a living room come dining room, half set up for sleeping the other half for the party) I went over and crawled under the duvet with him, hoping to reassure him/make sure he wasn't upset, blah. We cuddled then ended up 'spooning'. There were about ten other people being loud and still drinking and stuff on the other side of the room. The next thing I knew he was pulling my skirt up and my pants to one side and I just froze, like literally I couldn't move, I didn't say no, didn't say anything and, for want of a better way of putting it, just let him have sex with me. When he was finished he rolled over and I went to the toilet and had a cry and then went back over and slept (on and off) next to him Hmm The next day I felt really wrong but just tried not to think about it.

Another time he invited me to the park with his friends, then after a while said he needed to talk to me in private and took me off on my own. We started kissing, which I was fine with, but then he started moving to fast and I didn't want to but, again, froze, let him get on with it, didn't say anything but felt terrible during and after. After I just walked to the bus station and went home.

There were a couple of other incidents like this and obviously it's generally abusive but I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced something like this? In my heart I do feel like I was raped but then since I didn't speak or say anything, let alone 'no' I feel like I can't call it that IYSWIM? And especially since ti wasn't just once, I feel liek such a fool and so sad for teenaged me :(

Sometimes the memory just hits me out of the blue and knocks me for six but then I think 'Actually, did he even do anything wrong? I didn't tell him not to, he probably thought it was all entirely bloody fine.' I feel like in that sense I'm just being silly and I was just a stupid slutty teenager but at the same time it's always felt so so wrong so I don't know.

As I say I try not to think about it but I've been spending more time on the Relationships and Feminist boards lately and things keep reminding me of it and now I'm wittering on but I just wanted to know if anyone else had had this, where they didn't say anything/froze, or whether it's just me.

Don't know what I'll even do with an answer to be honest but I was just wondering. Sorry.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/07/2012 15:58

Non-consensual sex is rape, yes, and I'm sure there are as many ways of reacting as there are people. I think you were probably caught in that no-mans land of thinking that you weren't allowed to say no after things had got past a certain point whilst he's thinking lack of a 'no' means 'yes'.... doesn't make it right, of course.

Teenage you was very unlucky to meet a boy like that, especially when it sounds like she wasn't particularly emotionally mature. I'm sure you'd like to leap back in time and drag her out from under that duvet, for example. You could probably benefit from counselling.

theworldisoutthere · 09/07/2012 16:00

I wouldn't even know where to start getting counselling, I can't afford to pay someone :( can you get referred to one by your GP?

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theworldisoutthere · 09/07/2012 16:10

And thanks for responding Cogito, I really appreciate it

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/07/2012 16:21

If this experience is disturbing your piece of mind to the point where you are finding it difficult to form new relationships or get on with living a normal life your GP may be able to refer you.

What happened was rape. It was wrong, unpleasant and shouldn't have happened. The boyfriend deliberately exploited the situation, your naivety, your childish infatuation etc. He saw your vulnerability and, rather than take care of you and respect you, he abused you. It doesn't have to be the clicheed stranger in a dark alley with a knife to be rape. Rapists are quite often known to their victims. It may be enough to hear that from a few outsiders to enable you to finally stop blaming yourself & turn your anger where it really belongs.

itsthequietones · 09/07/2012 16:27

So sorry this has happened to you. Yes, you can be referred for counselling by your GP, I don't know how long it generally takes though. Maybe contact rape crisis, I believe that they can offer counselling too - not 100% sure on that.

I reacted the same way that you did, just froze, didn't fight, shout or say no. I cried. My exbf thought that it was the way to make up after a fight.... I don't know what I used to call it, sex I didn't want I guess, but I never, ever thought about calling it rape.

Oddly enough, reading feminist books and reading on here triggered it off and made me realise what it was (it happened nearly 20 years ago). I'm onto my 3rd week of counselling and although it is very painful at times I do think that it's helping me. This week I discovered that although I find it very difficult to talk about being raped, it was even harder to consider forgiving myself for not getting out of the relationship.

You're not being silly xxx

Opentooffers · 09/07/2012 17:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

theworldisoutthere · 09/07/2012 20:49

Thanks for your responses, I think I do need to talk to someone about it. My GP wanted me to talk to a counsellor about something else so
I could go back to him and take him up on that...

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mummytime · 09/07/2012 21:06

Start here

AbigailAdams · 09/07/2012 22:18

Teenage boys do not need it spelling out, any more than teenage girls. They can manage to read body language in every other situation (and they do) except when they want to have sex with a woman?? Don't think so.

It wasn't up to you to say no theworldisoutthere. It was up to him to ensure that you wanted him to penetrate you.

Here is a good blog to help you understand why this is not your fault. I've linked to the "grey areas" post but the rest of the blog is excellent and may help clarify what happened to you.

So sorry you went through this. He sounds like an entitled arse.

timetosmile · 09/07/2012 22:24

Your local rape crisis centre would be an excellent (and free) place to start, and if they felt their service wasn't the most suitable to help you then they will signpost you to a better one.

Consider discussing this with your GP. Counselling will certainly be an option.

I'm sorry this happened to you, and I'm sorry that it casts a long shadow over your current life. Thanks for posting - I hope others can come up with some thoughtful and helpful advice to help you move forward x

attheendoftheday · 09/07/2012 23:33

I'm sorry that this happened and is affecting you so badly now. It was rape as it was sex you didn't want, but I don't feel the man involved should be prosecuted, as I don't see how he could have reasonably have known that you didn't want sex as your actions could reasonably have meant you did. But I don't think that should stop you from seeking the support you need to recover.

itsthequietones · 10/07/2012 07:06

attheend - OP was frozen, couldn't move or speak. That's a pretty good indication of not wanting sex.

pinkyredrose · 10/07/2012 11:29

opentooffers this is the second time today I've seen you telling a rape victim that they made a mistake

I'm reporting your post.

theworldisoutthere · 10/07/2012 12:09

Thanks to those of you who have been so helpful, I think I definitely need to talk this through with someone (counsellor or psychiatrist) so that I can move on :( will ask my GP.

There seem to be mixed on 'what it was' but I know I do need to forgive myself not for it happening, but for keeping putting myself in dangerous situations. It's so hard not to feel like it was all my fault :(

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itsthequietones · 10/07/2012 12:52

theworld It wasn't your fault at all, it was something that he chose to do. I really think that forgiving yourself means really accepting that it was not your fault and that there was nothing you could do to prevent it. You were an innocent, naive and caring person, he took advantage of that.

I think you're doing the right thing by persuing counselling. I wish you all the best with it x

itsthequietones · 10/07/2012 12:55

opentooffers - I believe that you misunderstand consent, it means saying 'yes'. Not saying 'no' does not imply consent, ever.

attheendoftheday · 10/07/2012 13:17

Theworld it is not your fault.

But can no one else see how from the man's point of view, someone who he had regular sex with came and got into bed with him, spooned, and then when he made a sexual advance by starting to undress them did not object or move away? Yes, ideally he would have realised this was not what the op wanted, but I can see why he didn't. Without seeing inside his head we cannot know whether he made a genuine mistake and thought he had consent, or whether he knew she didn't want this (if the latter then I would say castrate the bastard).

It was rape because it wasn't what she wanted, and op clearly needs support. I just want to be fair to everyone involved. In my regular sexual relationship I rarely say to dp "yes, I consent to sex", it's more that if we're in bed and cuddling and one of us starts stroking or undressing the other, and they don't object, then we assume they consent.

JuliaScurr · 10/07/2012 13:26

www.rapecrisis.org.uk/

the onus is on the man to make sure the woman consents. She hasn't said 'yes' just because she's too confused/drunk/scared/whatever to say 'no'.
was he struck dumb so couldn't check by asking 'is that ok?'

SweetTheSting · 10/07/2012 13:35

OP, I am sorry this happened to you. Yes, it was rape.

If you (general you) were having a conversation with someone and they stopped talking, responding,smiling, participating - you would stop talking and check they were OK, wouldn't you? Why wouldn't someone do the same sexually?

itsthequietones · 10/07/2012 13:56

attheend the thing is, in your relationship, when one of you does start stroking or undressing the other person, does the other person respond? I'm pretty sure that they do. The OP didn't respond though, she was too scared to move and probably went into survival mode to get through it.

It isn't necessary to get into his head and see his intent, it won't affect how the OP felt at the time or is feeling now. He had sex with her without consent, without saying 'yes' and there are no excuses for that.

itsthequietones · 10/07/2012 13:58

Abigail - brilliant link.

AbigailAdams · 10/07/2012 17:03

Oh sweetheart, it wasn't your fault in anyway shape or form. This man had sex with you, regardless of your participation, on numerous occassions. He knew exactly what he was doing. He wanted to have sex with you, and found no need to take your feelings into consideration. He didn't misread, or not understand your actions. He didn't care. The whole manipulation of the situation with you and the other guy kissing. Yeuch. Going too fast for you in the park i.e. not stopping to check anything was OK with you is just further evidence that what you wanted didn't come into it. He knew what he was doing.

Non-rapists will check before penetrating someone. That checking doesn't necessarily have to be verbal, it could just be ensuring that their partner is happy, willing. If in any doubt (and someone not responding or freezing would leave anyone who cared, in doubt) they would stop. Unless of course they were a rapist and didn't care.

Spooning with someone is not consenting to sex. Why would anyone think that it was?? Really, why? Having sex with someone previously does not mean consenting to sex again. Again why would anyone think that it does?

Seriously OP, read the blog I linked to. And perhaps the MN rape myths page. And maybe a couple of others on this thread would like to too.

NaturalNatures · 10/07/2012 22:16

Abigail is right it's not you're fault in any way, rape crisis would be a good rl place to start, they do offer councelling and support and are very good.

I hope you're ok.

theworldisoutthere · 11/07/2012 13:17

Have read the blog, it made me cry! Thank you do much for that link Thanks

I'm going to go through my GP for CBT I'm supposed to be having anyway and if that yields no joy then I'll contact rape crisis.

Thanks so much for all the support, you guys are amazing Smile

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theworldisoutthere · 11/07/2012 13:23

*so much

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