I hate being married...

[LifeinBlue]

Have namechanged for this...

I have been married for 2 years and have one baby daughter.

I always used to say that the most important quality in a husband was kindness. My husband isn't kind. Not really. He can be kind to strangers, kind to our baby, kind to me sometimes, but he isn't "good hearted". If that makes sense? He's very quick to anger.

He has never hit me. But he does shout and wave his hands around in my face. He swears, storms around our house, marches into the garden and hits things. It scares me, which I've told him.

I just don't know what to do. Neither of us are happy. I know he loves me but at the moment I don't feel that I love him or even like him. I don't hate him, I just want to be away from him. I find it so depressing having time together because it inevitably ends in an argument about something silly.

But we have a baby. And we were once happy. And I have to do everything I can to make this work. I owe it to all of us - the idea of our beautiful girl having parents who live apart is heartbreaking. It kills me.

What can I do? Any advice welcome. There's probably masses of other information I haven't included - sorry. Didn't want to write an essay.

Thanks for reading.

Im so sorry but i dont think you owe it to your baby to try and stay in what sounds like an awful situation. She WILL pick up on he unpleasantness and it will affect her profoundly. My parents were like this, except it was my mother who was the angry one. The rows were awful, just awful. If he cannot change (and im not sure he can) I think you owe it to yourself and your baby to leave him :(

It does sound to me like emotional abuse. My experience with my ex was very similar to Magic's so my views might be coloured.

Abusive men aren't abusive all the time. My ex could be lovely for long stretches of time. But he would always be horrible again at some point.

I also felt trapped and believed I could save the relationship if only I could get him to see what he was doing... But I eventually realised that my ex was never going to change and more than that he wasn't the slightest bit interested in changing because he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.

In your case, if you lay it out and tell him he needs to do something about his anger because his behaviour is making you unhappy, I think you will understand a lot from his reaction. If he agrees and does all the right things and seeks help, then perhaps he can change. If however he blames it on you (or stress, or anything else) or if he promises to do something and never actually goes to get help then you can see where his priorities lie.

I disagree with amillionyears as it is his responsibility to go and get help and I think it's important that he actually does this himself.

But it does sound like you've already told him how you feel.

Oh, and I don't see how his anger about trivial things can possibly be your fault.

"He knows he has problems with anger and wants to seek help".

Does he really think he has a problem with anger and does he really want to seek help, or are you hoping that he will?. Paying lip service to it is not going to help anyone. You've already told him how you feel and he disregards your point of view.

"His father is an angry, depressive and deeply unpleasant man. My husband does not want to be like him and wants to be a very different father".

But your H is already acting like his father did and this time around you are on the receiving end; he learnt a lot of damaging stuff in childhood and it has profoundly affected him. Such men do not change readily if at all. His mother was not a saint either to put up with her angry depressive man but actually enabled him. She remained within this for her own reasons and it could be argued that she put her H before her son. She made her choice and her son is now profoundly affected by both their actions.

You have a choice re your H; your DD does not.

What do you get out of this relationship with your H now?

choochoo,I was meaning that she may have to get him the leaflets or whatever,I could be wrong,he may be willing to do that part himself.But yes,he has got to try and fix the problem.

I think if he believes he needs to do something about his behaviour then he should do all of it, including finding leaflets. He needs to prove that he really does want to change.

(I don't think he does though because OP has already told him how she feels)

He really does want help for his anger. He's waiting for a referral to come through from his gp.

Thank you again for all your advice.

His father is far worse - I know I would have left my husband by now if he was even half as horrendous. And I agree that his Mum enables his father's terrible behaviour.

I know that my husband wants to change and make our relationship work. I think we're both a bit "stuck."

One of my best friends married an angry, grumpy, moody man. 20 years on and he is completely different. They have a very happy marriage. I know this is the exception but I do cling to this knowing that people can and do change.

I think we might have to bite the financial bullet and pay for counselling. Otherwise I'll feel that we haven't done all we can to try.

You do realise that just because his fathers behaviour was like that , does not give him any reason to act even the least bit similar ? It is not normal to act that way, to make you nervous and in the long run, bringing up your daughter with him acting this way will make it worse for her. But the fact you are saying because of his behaviour you don't want to be there, is bad for him and is your fault????? You are basically saying that because his behaviour is bad - that you are to blame. And this is not the case.

So what is your husband doing while waiting for his referral?
Trying to deal with his anger, or just breezily saying "oh I want to change, just you wait till I get my referral"

Any change will have to come from within.....

What does he do to "let off steam"? Can he start exercising? Going jogging? Going to the gym?

When my dh recognizes he is stressed, he goes for a bike ride, or jogging, or to spinning classes.

What does your husband do? Apart from snap and stomp about, shout and scream, and blame it on his temper, poor wee lamb....

I am wondering what sort of referral the GP will give him. Also such referrals can take a considerable amount of time to come through. You now need to face up to the distinct possibility that he may still not attend any sessions or actually will dismiss them when it comes to attending.

Do not go with him to any of these sessions; I think you will come off far worse from any joint counselling. It is never recommended when there is evidence of abuse in a relationship.

"I know that my husband wants to change and make our relationship work".
Is this however wishful thinking on your part; that something will get him to change?. You cannot make a relationship work on your own

He learnt a lot of damaging stuff from his own parents and he has been profoundly affected by their actions.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents; what do you want to teach your DD about relationships?.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

He really does want to change. He does acknowledge that our problems stem from his anger. Really, he does.

He is being referred for cbt I think. But he is also keen to talk to a private counsellor. He has seen someone in the past (pre me).

I know this might sound like I'm exceeding him. I'm not. He is fundamentally prone to being grumpy and copes with stress badly. Yes, he does sometimes blame me, and that's not ok.

I married him knowing who he was (although it's been worse in the last 6 months). I feel so stupid. If I had my time again I wouldn't have married him but I did and I need to make sure that if I do walk away I'm not doing so without trying to make it work first.

I feel so sad sometimes when I see people who have truly married their best friend. Who have a real partner. Sometimes I feel that I have that but not often. I really long for it.

Excusing him - not exceeding!

LifeInBlue, there's no shame in taking this slowly and exploring all options. You're not stupid; we like to see the best in people and accept their flaws. Often they don't present their worst side at the start, its quite gradual.

But HOW can you "make it work"?

By accepting that you are to blame for his moods? Nonsense!
By tip toeing around him, and ensuring you dont have an opionon of your own to annoy him! BALDERDASH!

By always agreeing with him?

Letting him be the boss who decides everything?

ANd what will this make you?

A pitiable woman. A victim. A shadow of yourself.

It is NOT YOUR JOB TO WORK ON THIS, it is HIS!

And he is just sitting around waiting for his gp, or professionals to do something....

Quint,sounds like he is going to work on it.Him.And if he does,good for him.

It doesn't sound to me as if you have had a real heart to heart talk, OP.

You should write down your feelings when he is grumpy or angry, and why, over a week or so then ask for a proper talk between you two when you won't be interrupted.

Surely that way you can get to the bottom of why he is so angry. Did he have a bad day at work? What did you do that set him off? etc. Right now it all sounds a bit vague to me - he gets unreasonably angry, he promises to try to get it sorted. I think you both need to dig a little deeper, ok it is prob his upbringing but he already knows that and the knowledge isn't helping the situation. What is it about his past that is so angering?

^what did you do to set him off?
really?! :o
Why he's angry and aggressive is irrelevant, its his problem. Billions of other people manage a crappy childhood plus a crappy day at work and stresses (including myself) without treating the person you vowed to love, cherish and protect with contempt.

Meant a shocked face there, not a big grin, sorry!

I think people can change if they want to.

I would keep a diary though. See where you are in 6 months or year's time. If things haven't changed, then you need to think about the effects his outbursts will be having on your DD. She will be seeing him treat you like that, and she will be learning what to expect from relationships between men and women.

My children were key to me leaving really in the end. I don't want them growing up thinking that treating others, or them, with aggression and a lack of respect is right. I think it undermines confidence that can have a lasting impact on the sort of adults they become and the sort of relationships they will enter into. It's one thing choosing to put up with it yourself, but it's entirely another making that choice for your children.

Thank you magichouse I think the diary is a good idea.

One of the things that scares me about leaving is that I haven't told anyone that I'm having problems. My parents like my husband and are both elderly - it would break their hearts to know that I'm not happy. I know they'd rather I left him than was in a bad marriage but they get a lot of security from believing that I am happy.

I don't have siblings. I do have friends I could go to stay with if needs be. The idea is so strange. Actually leaving. It makes me feel desperately sad and relieved in equal measure.

I've had a crap night. And my husband is plugged into the tv - he knows I'm unhappy but doesn't care enough to talk to me about it.

I wish I'd known how awful it is to be married and lonely.

:-(
It is awful to be married and lonely. But you're at least recognising how you are feeling and facing up to it, and there's a real strength in that. I just buried it all, until I had no choice but to face up to it.
You mustn't worry about how others will feel. You don't really know that. Lots of my friends did recognise that things were bad, but didn't want to talk about it with me. You will find that all people who love you want is for you to be happy.
Splitting up a marriage IS sad. Even a bad one - there is a lot of grief for all the dreams/ hopes you had for it. It would be more worrying not to think that.
You don't have to make decisions today. See how the counselling goes. Talk to him about how you feel (when you're both in a better mood).
You want things to change, and you are considering the possibility of leaving if they don't. It means you're a strong person, and life generally has a way of working out when you are facing up to it. xx

Their security is fake and ill placed. Do you really think they want this?

As the saying goes- people are either drains, or radiators.
With my exP, I found living with someone who continually got grumpy and arsey about the smallest things wore me down just as much as huge arguments.
I could always rely on him if things went wrong- to blame me and go to pieces

LIfeinBlue, I could have written your post. I have the added complication that my h drinks and suffers from depression. He's sober now but still his behaviour is very much like what you describe. I don't like the example my kids are seeing, he's like a toddler having tantrums sometimes ! THen trying to explain to the kids that you dont' get what you want by shouting etc!

I have 2 dc and feel similar to you about divorce. I don't know what to say constructively to help you but just wanted to reach out.

What I am doing is working very slowly on sorting myself out. I'm trying to work out how i really feel, to assess how much he can change now he's in AA. Calmly and clearly pointing out when he's been out of order and not rowing about it.

Take it slowly, a few months ago i was so unhappy, i just wanted to run away from him with dc, but couldn't work out how on earth I could ever leave and felt trapped and overwhelmed by the idea of change - and thus even more unhappy. It's really hard, but I'm gradually working out what i want and getting counselling, focussing on myself and dc, thinking about practicalities of leaving. I'm going to start a diary as someone said above, so that i can look back in 6 months time and get a good overview of how often he shouts, behaves badly, and also when things are good. I feel better that i'm taking these small steps, whatever the outcome.

Keep us updated

For what it is worth, I think that practical steps which make you feel more in control will really help so that's my advice. Make a plan, give yourselves a reasonable timetable, talk about it and stick to it. There is nothing worse than feeling like a victim and I personally think that not stepping up and trying to change things will only mean that you will continue to feel like one. If he refuses to participate, then you have your answer which is not nice but life is too short to live like this, and it's also too short to write off your marriage without a concerted mutual effort to save it.

Relate is a charity so depending on your circumstances and local area, it may be a reasonable cost. It will certainly be cheaper than two sets of solicitors.
I would seek advice (they do phone counselling) about how best to cope with him - some people are receptive to having their faults "calmly and clearly pointed out" as they occur. For others it may be like lighting a fuse.
As a wake up call, provided you can find a good opportunity to talk to him when he is a receptive humour, you should point out that you are seriously considering a separation for your and your daughters benefit; that it is not what you want but that he is making you very unhappy.
Try not to use terms like emotional abuse but point out that it is time to take practical steps to change your relationship if you two are not going to turn into his parents. If he has grown up in this sort of environment, he will recognise what you say but may not be aware of how snappy he is on a day to day level.
Try not to make ultimatums but say that you do want him to actually take steps to address his stress levels whether it is to seek a new job, join a boxing club, drink less, have a boys night out once a week or whatever. I shared a flat with someone like this for a number of years and our solution was the Friday night 30 minute rant about all the muppets at work, followed by wine, takeaway and crap tv. Got it all out of her system before the weekend and we didn't spend most of it dancing around her. Ask him to commit to identifying and starting something which may help within a set period. Often we are stuck in the "I'm too busy to sort it right now" trap, "I'll join the gym next month" - a proposed trial separation should bump you up to the top of the priority list over work projects etc.

Take some responsibility if appropriate. Are there triggers which you can remove? I personally find it pushes all my buttons to come home to a huge mess after a long day at work (I have builders in) or random clutter like gloves and coats just discarded all over the kitchen. It's trivial but it sends me off the deep end (fuming internally) and I can't relax until it is sorted. I suspect that if I asked my husband, I am probably not hiding my sense of humour failure very well. My father used to behave like this but would properly lose his temper so I am very conscious of trying to not create an environment where my kids will have a panicked tidy up when they hear the front gate go !
Finally - tell your family and some friends that things are not too good between you. You will be surprised at how common it is, most people have difficult phases in their marriages and most people in long "happy" marriages will admit to at some point considering leaving. You may get an offer of some babysitting so you two can go out regularly and spend some time alone together. If you can reconnect on a personal level it will be much easier to talk about how to deal with his rages.