How common is this ? 50 :50 Childcare decreed by court when child turned 12

[Feckbox]

Met a friend yesterday. She has lovely 12 yo dd. divorced about 7 years. Ex h used to have dd every other weekend and one day every week. Very toxic acrimonious split.
He took her to court for 50:50 residency recently when dd turned 12. Court granted this. Daughter now loves half time with her dad.

I am not making any judgement about this . I was slightly shocked to hear it though. How common is this ? ( ie 50:50 residency being granted after years of a different arrangement )

Spot Freudian slip. Must preview

Did the court ask the daughter what she wanted? At that age, no court in the land could have made me go and see my dad the bastard.

Yes, detective. They did . She said she was willing to try it. ( my friend's words) . I am still shocked the court decreed as he asked

If your friend's dd had said she didn't want to 'try' living with her f half of the time, I very much doubt that the Court would have granted him this Order.

Given the age of the dd, if she should subsequently decide that she's not happy with this arrangement the Order can be challenged. When she becomes 16 she can vote with her feet.

I don't get the question. The dd agreed to it, so its not really about how often a court does anything iyswim.
Had she have said no, then the court would have ruled that way.
I would have hoped they could have sorted it without court involvement as the dd wanted to do it too, though.

Is there a different question you are asking?

The dd, who is old enough to have an opinion, was asked that opinion, she gave her opinion, she was listened to and is now loving the new arrangement. Where exactly is the shocking bit?

My daughter does 50-50 (not court ordered) she wanted it, she loves it.

Why did they go to court?

I am still shocked the court decreed as he asked

You're looking at this as an adversarial, mother vs father thing. It's not, it's about what's best for the child.

The court didn't make a decree as the father asked, it made a decree as the child asked. She was obviously regarded as old enough for her opinions to be given weight.

why shocked? he is as much her parent as her mother is and as such should have equal say

I said in my op that I made no judgement about the child living half the time with each parent.

It WAS the father who asked.
I am shocked because I have never come across this before. I though court orders about residency lasted till children were 16.
I have NO personal experience of it.

I can think of two fathers who do not see much of their children who are absolutely unaware that they could go to court now that their children are 12+ and get the current arrangement overturned if their children agreed ( which the children would )

What is the Freudian slip op? I just can't see it!

court orders about residency can be changed any time.

Bonnie, first post " she now LOVES with her dad.... ".

Not such, I clearly need to educate myself in these matters!!

This is the first I have come across such a thing . A good friend has two kids 13 and 13 . They live with their mum ( for about th last 6 years ) . He seese them every other weekend and every Wednesday . He applied for residency at the split. He still would like them to live with him .

I know for a fact he has NO IDEA he could reapply to court for them to live , say , half the time with him. ( He thinks the arrangement made back then is set in stone till the kids arer 16. )His ex wife ( also a good friend ) doesnt know this either.

Residency and contact orders can be reviewed any number of times up until the child's 16 birthday.

It is still relatively rare that a court orders 50:50 residency (I read some research a while back that says most 50:50 care is by mutual consent rather than court order) but it does happen where the court thinks it's the best option. It can work well for older children, particularly if both parents live quite close to each other so issues over stuff being left at one house while the child is at the other can easily be resolved.

The amount of weight that the court will put on the child's opinion varies a lot with age. Once the child is about 12ish then their views are given a lot of importance. But then once the child reaches around 14 courts will tend not to make or change contact orders at all. By that age the child is viewed as a) old enough to be able to sort it out for him/herself, and b) too old to be forced one way or the other.

Regarding your friend with the two children, there are a number of factors. First, although a residency/contact order may state that contact has to occur on a set schedule, they can cheerfully ignore that schedule and set up their own one provided the parents agree.

Second, going back to court to change contact orders for 13yo may not result in any order. If your friend puts the paperwork in now it's quite likely the children will be 14 by the time the reports are done and the case is actually heard, at which point the court is quite likely to let the children take the lead.

Mediation might be a better bet as it's quicker and, although it's not legally binding, it might help to thrash out the issues in a less adversarial context. I'd suggest your friend gets in touch with Families Need Fathers. They can give lots of good advice.

If it's workable in terms of schools and proximity and everything, and the child wants to, and assuming no other reasons not to, I can't see a problem with this?

Thanks Snorbs. This is all pretty fascinating. Especially the bit about when they get to 14.

Agree , sardine. My surprise was at the courts agreeing to it, not that it being a bad arrangement. The mother in the case was very against it, however.

I think it is probably significant that the case I describe involved real deep seated hatred between the parents , where there was NO give and take and the mother insisted he stick to the (limited) contact arrangements ( or whatever they are called ) to the letter. She would never have agreed to " can I take x with me to my brother's wedding - I realise it is not "my" weekend but she wants to go and we'll have a great time ". She would call her lawyer ( or the police! ) if he was half an hour late bringing the daughter back.

They could not even speak to each other apart from via lawyers. She never forgave him for leaving her for another woman .

I have no knowledge of their marriage and would never speculate nor take sides/ pass judgement. I do suspect, sadly, that she was punishing him by with holding the daughter as much as she could.

Frankly I am amazed that the courts enforced an eminently sensible arrangement. I thought ( wrongly ) that the mother had an unfair balance of power in such cases and it is refreshing to see this is not always the case.

the really nice post script is that now that the dust has settled, everyone seems to be happier with the new arrangement. Including the mother , who incidentally is one of the nicest people I have ever met. Just seemed to have a twisted attitude to her ex re the daughter.

She may be one of the nicest people you know. But she wasn't just punishing her ex. She was punishing her dd.
Children grow and change, to expect a contact order set in place 7 years ago to be still appropriate now is unrealistic.
Yes the dad may have applied to the court, but there decision was based on what the child wanted and asked for.
What is right regarding contact for a five year old is not always to be appropriate for a 12 year old, iyswim.

yes, Dprince, I agree.
I always avoided conversations with her about her ex as she just HATED him so much and it was so clear this affected her judgement over their daughter. .

I sort of didn't want to know. We were never close enough for me to be able to say "it seems like your hatred for your ex and your hurt and anger over his affair is tainting your judgement about what is best for your daughter".

You would have to know someone VERY well , and be so sure of your stance to say such a thing.

I don't really know him. I spoke to him once when he came to collect his daughter from me and he just spewed out a tirade of hatred against my friend for keeping the daughter away from him.

Albeit that the wisdom of Solomon may have been delivered in this particular Order, it should be noted that the Family Courts are capable of making spectacularly bad judgements as well as good ones.

Very true Izzy.