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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If you're gay and if you were in this situation what would you want me to do?

27 replies

Kaloobear · 27/06/2012 22:35

(I put this in LGBT children but it was suggested I'd do better here.)

I hope it's ok to post this here, it's not about a child but I can't find a more appropriate place for it. I feel a bit out of order asking this as I don't know at all whether he is gay or not, but I am worried about my brother.

He has never had a girlfriend, and never brought a girl back to our mother's house (where he still lives at 26 but is shortly to move out from!).

He has fairly frequent one night stands-always at the other person's house.

He will not talk about his love life, relationship status etc with me, which is fine, it's his business, but is slightly odd as we're very close and talk about everything that could be considered at all controversial-religion, politics, etc.

Our mother is very homophobic.

He is very close to his best friend from school-close enough that there were always rumours about them when they were at school and a little bullying in a 'jokey' way about them being gay, that clearly wasn't a joke.

He is miserable at the moment and I don't know why.

The way he talks about women is very negative-we often argue because he talks about them in such a laddish, stereotypical way, despite the fact that he's actually a pretty sensitive, decent bloke and doesn't actually believe the crap he spouts. So for instance he'll say, 'phwoar, bet she's a goer' and then he'll blush and apologise and say that of course she doesn't deserve to be treated like that. It seems almost put on, like he thinks it's the sort of thing that he's supposed to say, rather than the way he genuinely sees women.

I've thought about it a lot and I can only see two potential reasons for his misery. Either a) he is gay, doesn't want to tell our family (see homophobic mother) and is miserably in the closet (and could be single or not) or b) he is straight but has some fucked up attitudes to women and is miserably single.

I have asked him outright if he's gay, which may have been the wrong thing to do, I don't know, but I wanted him to hear from me that although our mum is homophobic the rest of the family would be totally supportive, love him the same as ever, etc. He says he's not gay. He's the type of person who is so secretive that he will tell you about a date 6 months after it happened, and deny it furiously before then, and even when he does tell you it's literally 'I went on a date' and that's it! So if he is he might well not tell me for months, or years, or, my big worry, ever.

I think he is. And I think he's miserable. I don't know whether I WANT this to be the case because I think it's the 'fixable' one of the two scenarios. If b is correct and he's straight then he might just be really fucked up and miserable forever, which is terrible. If a is correct then it's fixable because he can come out and be happy! (Our mother notwithstanding )

He's so secretive and withdrawn at the moment and I just want him to be happy so if he IS gay, how should I handle it from here on? I don't want to bully him into coming out! And equally I don't want him to feel alone or sad. I don't think he has any gay friends (apart from possibly the one school friend I mentioned, but he's in the army and not around much). He's so 'stiff upper lip' with his friends, they are very public school in their attitudes and not very expressive of their emotions etc.

And then of course, if he's not gay, I don't want to give him a complex about his attitudes to women by banging on about him maybe being gay...!!

Argh. Should I just drop it and shut up? I really, really hate seeing him this sad.

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 27/06/2012 22:42

How often do you see him? Do you go out with him socially?

Lueji · 27/06/2012 22:42

If he is gay he could be struggling with it himself, due to his upbringing.

Maybe all he needs to know is that you are there for him regardless of the reason why he is not happy.
If he is very private he won't be happy by you probing or wanting to know about his life.

Kaloobear · 27/06/2012 22:45

Not often, I live up north and he's in London. We talk often though and my mum has commented to me that he's barely leaving the house at the mo, apart from for work. When I'm in London we quite often go to the pub if I can persuade him out of the house-and when he's out he's pretty cheerful and his normal self, it's more when he's at home he seems down.

It has occurred to me that the problem might be nothing to do with sexuality and more to do with living with our mother-I know he's desperate to get out of there because he wants to live by himself. (Not with friends-he really likes his privacy. Which is partly why I don't want to badger him!)

OP posts:
Kaloobear · 27/06/2012 22:46

Lueji I think you're probably right; I just don't know how often I can say 'you can talk to me about anything you know!' without driving him crazy!

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Kaloobear · 27/06/2012 22:48

I guess my question really comes down to 'before you came out were you ok with people guessing/asking or would it make things worse if you were struggling with whether to come out or not?' (That's a bit wordy, sorry!)

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Earthymama · 27/06/2012 22:49

Just hang in there, you'll get a better idea when he is living in his own place.
Your mother's influence will hopefully wane and, gay or straight he'll feel better about himself.
You sound nice xx

squeakytoy · 27/06/2012 22:52

I think you have probably got it right with your post at 22.45.

If your mother is the sort to want to know all his business, and he is fairly private, then no matter what his sexuality is, he probably gets pissed off with her questioning where he has been, who he has seen etc..

I would stop thinking about it, and see what happens when he gets into his own place. It probably does his head in if you are fretting and trying to nosy into his private life too.

He is 26, and old enough to live his life however he likes without mother or sister badgering him. :)

Kaloobear · 27/06/2012 22:52

Thanks! I don't feel nice, I feel like I'm in danger of making a bad situation worse by nagging. My tendency is always to want to go in and 'fix' and make things better and sometimes I have to remind myself that's not always appropriate-or necessary, or wanted! I think you're right that once he's moved things might be easier. I will continue with the annoying older sister phone calls but go slow on the probing questions!

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Kaloobear · 27/06/2012 22:54

I know he is squeaky, but he's only about 8 in my head! Wink

I am SO glad he's moving out. That can only be a good thing for him!

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BorisJohnsonsHair · 27/06/2012 22:57

Not sure if this helps, but I had a friend at (primary) school who was incredibly camp. As we got older, we all just assumed he was gay. He moved to London at 18, and we lost touch. I've recently been in touch with him again and he still hasn't come out (we're 44). And I'm beginning to wonder if he is asexual, rather than gay. His sister is a lesbian, so I don't think his parents would have any issue with him being gay, so there doesn't appear to be any reason for him not to come out. I think he genuinely isn't really interested in having a relationship at all. Maybe your brother feels like this, but feels pressure on him to conform and be like everyone else? As I said, maybe this doesn't help, but is possibly worth a thought? Hope you manage to help him out of his unhappiness though x

cocolepew · 27/06/2012 23:00

Maybe he has been in a relationship and it has ended?

Opentooffers · 28/06/2012 00:48

Maybe everyone could quit guessing the guy's sexuality and consider that other things may be making him unhappy ? How long has he been unhappy? Do you equate 'happiness' with sexuality and having a relationship? What has it got to do with you anyway as you are his sister not his partner? Personally, I don't get this "is he gay or not" thing as it does'n't matter. He lives in cosmo London, he's young enough to be in a generation that accepts. But his own family are obsessed by needing to know either way. People have a right to keep there sexual needs private, like you say it could be a strange opinion of women. Either way, unless it's something illegal its not really anyone else's business

AdventuresWithVoles · 28/06/2012 01:12

Don't ask him questions but do make it clear that you dont' like the homophobic remarks & they are ridiculous & horrid. As is your mother's prying (to be fair, you sound a bit prying, too).

Make a space where he feels safe to share with you what he wants to share, when he wants to share it.

geegee888 · 28/06/2012 01:30

These aren't really signs of someone being gay. He could simply be shy and private, and I don't blame him for not wanting to discuss his private life with you or his mother. I really think you should leave him alone and just consider his private life off limits.

FWIW I know several men who've never had girlfriends by their 30s, who are not gay. Although you would probably insist that they are!

You remind me of my BIL, who asserted that a female employee at work "must be a lesbian" because she was quite pretty and didn't have a boyfriend at age 28. She isn't. Turns out she was in a relationship with a man for the past 4 years.

Kaloobear · 28/06/2012 07:12

Crikey Sad I don't equate sexuality with happiness or unhappiness or anything of the sort, I am just worried that potentially he's miserable about it and I want him to be happy. He's usually a happy, cheerful person and it seems the most likely reason for his misery, though of course it could be something else and that's why I don't want to bang on about it. I haven't badgered him about it, I've just asked once and now I'm on here to ask opinions as to how I should behave in future because I don't want to upset him further, either way.I hope I'm not as awful in real life as a couple of you seem to think!

I hadn't thought that maybe he's just broken up with someone-that could well be it. I'll just continue to be supportive and hopefully he'll be ok, whatever the problem is.

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Kaloobear · 28/06/2012 07:17

I'm really not obsessed by the way. Posting on here for advice doesn't mean I'm spending every spare minute thinking about it and phoning him. And I doubt it's occurred to anyone else in the family to even notice that he's not happy-my mum is concerned that he's down but isn't obsessing either and it definitely wouldn't occur to her that it would have anything to do with his relationship status.

I'm a bit hurt by some of these comments. This isn't AIBU, I was genuinely looking for advice in order to make him feel comfortable and happy IF he is gay, as I don't have experience personally of being in the closet, and it he isn't (equally possible!) then I will just continue to be a supportive, nice older sister and hope that whatever the problem he'll feel able to talk to me or someone else at some point. I don't think caring about your brother is weird, there's no law that says you're only allowed to worry about your partner. I love him, he's family, I want him to be happy.

OP posts:
ratspeaker · 28/06/2012 10:13

I'd tell him your last sentence and leave it at that for the time being

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 28/06/2012 10:26

None of the gay people I know came out to their family while they were still living at home. In fact some had actually been living with their partners for several years before the family realised/were told! Might he be worried that if he were to talk to you it would get to your mum (do you talk to her a lot/about everything?)

CogitoErgoSometimes · 28/06/2012 10:31

He's 26 and he's still living at home. I don't know about anyone else but, if I'd still been living at home at 26, I'd have been pretty miserable too. He says he's not gay. Do him the courtesy to take that on face value and simply support him in his new life. Go round to his new place with a bottle of wine like normal people do. I'm sure he'll be much happier when he's settled in.

TheMysteryCat · 28/06/2012 10:43

I have a very good friend that didn't have any serious relationships (or more than occasional dates) until he was 28. then he met the most amazing woman and they've been happily deliriously in love for over a year now.

He was always very secretive about dating/women etc and is very shy. We all wondered why as well. But, now he's confident and relaxed, he talks about it. He simply says he was waiting for the right person for him and didn't want to mess about with people he didn't want to be with forever. he thought his views might make him seem old fashioned and was embarrassed that he was going against the mainstream ways of finding a partner, so he just kept quiet and waited.

He behaved in a lot of the ways your describing of your brother to cover up his feelings. No amount of trying to get him to open up in a friendly or quiet way, or even teasing from his male friends encouraged my mate to explain what he was doing.

So, maybe that's what your brother is doing too. I don't know what to suggest except to give it time. Or maybe you could invite him up to yours for a holiday for a bit and take him out and see how he is when he's away from your mum.

geegee888 · 28/06/2012 11:23

He's probably miserable because he's still living at home, fed up with it (and by being badgered about his personal life) but can't afford to move out.

Kaloobear · 28/06/2012 11:47

I do not badger him. I believe I said before that I am worried I will make him more unhappy by talking about it at all, hence me asking on here for advice.

Thanks for all replies and advice-much appreciated. I'm leaving it now.

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hellymelly · 28/06/2012 11:56

You are his sister , and you clearly love him very much, and you think he is gay. I imagine if you feel that at gut level then you may well be right. But anyway you are concerned about him not being happy- He doesn't want to open up at the moment so I would keep on doing what you are doing now, being a loving sister. Maybe try and do some fun things with him that will cheer him up and help him relax. I imagine in time he will open up, you could say that he doesn't seem happy and that you worry about him, without any questions, and then leave the ball in his court. I think he is lucky to have a sister who cares so much about him.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 28/06/2012 12:14

Don't feel bad Kaloo you seem like a lovely sister! It is highly unlikely you are too overbearing or over involved from the opposite end of the country.

When I was young - much younger than your brother, in my teens - I had an absolute horror of discussing any aspect of my romantic life with my family. I was and still am very close to my parents and all my siblings but I still just hated it, saying something so simple as "I have a date" seemed unbearably cringey and embarrassing and God, what if they had started asking me QUESTIONS?!

I have no idea why I was like this or where it came from, it makes no sense looking back but there you go. I got over it when I moved away to university. But I can see that in slightly different circumstances, or if I had a slightly different personality (especially when young I always tried to push through embarrassment, but I could see someone not wanting to or being able to do that), it could have gone on much longer.

Like others have said a big part of your brothers dissatisfaction may come from living with your mum! And things may improve a lot for him once that's sorted.

On the gay thing, you could consider often mentioning gay friends, and speaking positively when gay marriage etc comes up in the news, so that he can be certain you are source of support in that regard. But don't overdo it or you may just piss him off!

prettywhiteguitar · 28/06/2012 12:17

Humm a few of those lifestyle things sound very much like army things, plus they will talk a certain way about women at work so he's just fitting in at work and honestly being in the army puts some women off from being in a relationship

I would say that perhaps he's not gay just feeling like he wants to be more independent than living at home with his mum. As for your homophobic mum, I'm sure he's hear far worse homophobic coming out if the mouths of squaddies !! If he is gay I'm sure he'll be working it out in his own head and just the fact you've mentioned it will be enough.

Try not to worry and keep in contact with him that way he knows you're there for him. Family is very important if you are in the army