Advice - difficult relationship with mother

[tinypumpkin]

I don't quite know where to start but I will try and be as concise as possible! I have had a difficult relationship with my parents over the years. My DM can be truly lovely and has a great relationship with my children. She is truly a lovely GP and in the main, a lovely DM. However, throughout my childhood, she has behaved appallingly at times, think screaming and shouting. We never knew when this would happen and we were scared of her. The uncertainty of knowing when she would decide to do this is still v stressful.

Just before being pregnant, I decided that enough was enough and I was not willing to deal with this any more. None of us are perfect (me included!) but I don't appreciate being screamed at and expected to guess what the issue is when she won't discuss it. If we could get her to talk about things, it would be v stressful in terms of shouting and accusations. My Dad has facilitated this in my opinion. He makes excuses for her and does not seem to appreciate that she can change her behaviour. Things got so bad that we stopped speaking to them for a few months. A last resort for me. I felt it was the only way for her to realise that I was no longer going to go along with being shouted at / ignored and then have to pretend all is okay. I was more than happy to talk about issues calmly but that seemed impossible. I also went for counselling at this point to see if I could talk through some of these issues. It didn't seem to help. I guess I am mentioning it to show that I have tried to address it.

I do believe my DM is depressed and there is a long history of this. I have been supportive of this (have been prescribed anti ds in the past myself) and tried to get her to seek help. As a teenager, I even had the call her GP to state that she was suicidal as she would take no responsibility for this. I also did the same a few years ago in the no speaking episode. I cannot take responsibility for her sadness and behaviour. I know that only she can change that.

In terms of our relationship, things pottered on for the last couple of years as we lost DD1 and my Mum trod on egg shells around me. For this reason I have not seen much of the sudden outbursts of hurt and shouty behaviour. A few incidents but no apology or ability to talk calmly about anything. I am posting now as past history suggests that she is now in a strop again with me. I sound paranoid but having spoken to my sister, she was thinking the same. Past history makes it hard to ignore so much of what we have known over the years.

I do feel sorry for my DM but I feel so protective of my children. I made the stand before as I am determined that my children will not grow up with this uncertainty of not knowing how my DM will behave. In the main she is truly lovely and so fab with them, but it is like the opposite end of the spectrum when she is not. It has had such a huge effect on me growing up with this that I do not want it for them. My clinical psychology colleague thinks she may have bipolar tendencies and I feel that this would fit.

They are supposed to be coming to take the children this afternoon to let me work (I know I am lucky regarding this). If I am right and she is annoyed with me and won't discuss it then I am thinking that today is the day to make a stand again. I don't want to but I keep telling myself that I can't keep brushing this behaviour under the carpet, she has to take some responsibility for her own happiness and for communicating like an adult. I guess I am asking for some support as I know making a stand will make a whole issue for the family (sis included) as that is how it will work with my DM. However, if I don't, I feel like I am letting my children down. They won't understand now as they are so v young, they do adore her though.

Sorry for the ramble. It's so hard to post a long history of this without sounding like we had a truly awful childhood. We actually didn't and things are mostly fine but when they aren't, the stress is just huge. It's like dealing with a toddler tantrum and I feel that I should not give in to her wishes (strop and pretend all is fine eventually).

Thank you for at least reading!

Firstly I'm very sorry to hear that your daughter died. You say she walked on eggshells when that happened - but was she supportive and helpful?

The fact that she toned down her behaviour when you were bereaved suggests that she can control how she is around you, but that she chooses not to. How is she with other people? Do people outside the family view her as a kind and friendly person? Or is she like this with everyone?

You have to change the dynamic. At the moment she gets satisfaction of some kind from stropping with you and making you squirm and she knows however badly she behaves you will eventually let her back in. I would be tempted to say that you need to lay down the law and tell her you love her, you understand life can be hard for her but there is never any excuse to behave the way she does and you're not putting up with it any more. Explain the effect her behaviour had on you as a child and that you don't want that for your own children. You are willing to talk to her about any problems she has but stropping and sulking are not acceptable and that any sign of that behaviour will lead to severely reduced (or no) contact.

What do you think?

Thank you CailinDana, I really appreciate your reply. I think it is a good idea. I think I just needed vindication that saying something now is a good idea should I be right about this being another instance. My DH is not much help with this and I know my sister would rather I not rock the boat. My DF would prefer I said nothing too but it's a rather lonely place to be in when people would prefer you to say nothing.

What you have said is exactly how I would want to react. I don't want to be unapproachable but I do expect to be treated with respect and not as someone to strop and shout at. We all deserve this and it is no example to set for my children.

In answer to your question about behaviour around the time of DD1's death. She really did try and be supportive but she was not someone I could talk to about it. I found she would often talk about how it made her feel and I couldn't deal with that. I still can't to some extent. DD1 is a twin (DD2 survived) and she often tells me how much it kills her to see twins and how angry she is at the hospital etc. I know she has as much right to grieve as I do (there is no competition!) but I can't deal with other people's grief around my DD. This has upset her that I don't talk to her about feeling sad about DD. I just can't an maybe it is my selfish way of managing my feelings.

Thank you again, your reply has really helped. I needed a supportive ear. :)

Hi Tiny. I'm so sorry to hear about your DD. I also agree you need to deal with the situation head-on. It is a shame that you can't count on others for support though, it would be so much better if you could present a united front and ask her to get help. It does sound as if she has MH issues, but if she hasn't sought help in all these years it seems very unlikely that she would do so now, unless she had her DH and all the other members of the family telling her the same thing.

CailinDana's advice about what to say is spot on, you can do this in a calm, reasonable way. Speaking as a daughter of a flouncer myself, I can see how it might be challenging to get all those points across though. If it doesn't work then maybe a letter would help you get across everything you need to say?

If she does really struggle to control this aspect of her personality, do you think there is a danger she could expose it to your DCs, especially as they get older? I think it would be very upsetting and damaging to have DCs witness that kind of behaviour, or worse, have it directed at them (one reason why I personally don't let my DM take care of my kids).

OOH, if she saves her tantrumming for you, this suggests that perhaps it is a controllable aspect of her personality, in which case there is even less excuse for using it against you all her life.

Good luck Tiny, it does sound like a difficult situation, and it can be hard for people of a certain age to learn new behaviours. But you need to stand up to her for the sake of your MH and your DCs.

I'm glad my post was of some help. As Mango said, it's a real shame your family isn't supportive, especially given what you've been through.

My mother is a stropper and sulker, although she doesn't shout or anything. She is also totally focused on herself - for example when I was depressed she used wail on about how worried and upset she was, which in the circumstances was totally inappropriate. It was hard but I had to accept that she isn't a mother to me at all really. I've given up on expecting support from her and that has allowed me to detach so that if she does strop I just ignore ignore ignore. Now that she knows stropping has no effect on me she just doesn't bother doing it any more. I don't see her that often though and I don't rely on her for childcare so that makes it a lot easier.

Just to add, I don't think you're being selfish by not talking to your mother about your DD. It is totally and utterly up to you how you deal with your grief and you are very wise to avoid talking to people who you feel aren't going to supportive. IMO it's not appropriate for your mother to talk to you about her own anger and grief simply because you can't be expected to be in a position to help her with those feelings, given your own pain. It is perfectly ok for you say that you can't deal with other people's grief - you have suffered an incredibly difficult loss and for others to expect you support them is beyond unreasonable, it's cruel IMO.

You don't have to justify yourself to your sister or your father. Your mother is behaving in a way that stresses you out unnecessarily and they should be supporting you and trying to stop that behaviour rather than just telling you to suck it up and pandering to her. By pandering they are giving her the signal that her behaviour is ok, and so in a sense they are colluding with her.

It's ok to stand up for your own feelings and to expect to be treated with respect.

Thank you so much MangoHedgehog (loving your name) and CailinDana (again). I truly appreciate the replies. I am sorry too that you are the daughters of stroppers, it can get a bit tiring. It's funny you should both say that about childcare as I had sorted nursery places for both DD1 and DD2 (who assumes their child will die?) That was a big bone of contention and I did it because I did not want to rely on my mum for childcare routinely. I do ask the odd favour as today but there is and will never be a routine arrangement as I am too worried about it being thrown back in my face at some point.

Mangohedgehog, I honestly don't think my DM would show this behaviour directly towards my DDs but I do think they could see it being shown to me. In my book that is still not okay.

Thanks for listening. I do feel bad as most of the time she is fine and more than lovely, it's the times when this is not the case that are problematic.

Cheers :)