Dealing with sibling's OW - pls help

[Orangedisc]

Have namechanged. I could really do with some advice on how to handle my feelings towards my notsodarling brother and his OW.

First of all a bit of background.

'D'B, let's just call him B, left his DW of 18 months and my beautiful 3 month old niece last year. It was the week before her first Xmas. Brutally, he told my lovely clever and very cool DSIL that he didn't love her any more and walked out. At the time, we all thought he was having some kind of mental breakdown. I even sought advice from a psychiatrist friend as I was worried that he was a suicide risk. My poor parents were devastated that their DS coud do something so awful, desperately worried about his MH, and in bits for DN. Clearly, DSIL was utterly destroyed.

. We needn't have worried about the little shit. He was following 'the script' to the letter. In the face of black opprobrium from all he went back to DSIL and manfully tried to make things work for a bit, then buggered off again, saying that he just didn't love her anymore. We noticed that he kept disappearing off to a city some distance away from us to meet 'a friend'. The shoulder he was crying on turned out to be a woman he works with who just happened to have left her DH at exactly the same time as my brother definitively left DSIL. He is now moving in with her and her 3DC.

DSIL is doing fantastically well, and has a new man. She has met OW and is managing not to be bitter. She has however no idea whatsoever that there was anything going on while they were together. My DB pretty much admitted - on one of the rare occasions I speak to him these days - that it had all being going on for a while before the break up.

I could do with some input on 2 issues:

1 I can't get past what this pair have done to my family. They have caused so much devastation in their pursuit of happiness. My niece lives between 2 houses and doesn't know where she's going to be from one day to the next. I am totally aware that I probably seem a bit petulant but I just can't get passed this. Incidentally, I'm not demonising the OW, my DB knows I think he's behaved like a dick. I am civil to him out of respect for my parents. The OW played her part though. I have no interest in meeting her or getting to know her, I'm just a bit repulsed by what they've done. I expect I'm going to have to get over myself (be nice then scrub myself afterwards, yuck) but has anyone been in this situation? How did you deal with it?

2 what is the etiquette regarding OW's DC? Will I have acquired a couple of new nephews when DB moves in with this woman or does the step-family thing of extend that far? Genuinely don't know what happens in this situation as this kind of complexity is new to my family and my friends are still all on their first marriages.

All advice gratefully received but equally feel free to tell me to get over myself.

There are so many what ifs that I want to ask athing but it could get silly and I think we've both explained our view points. FWIW I hope none of this does ever happen in your family because I suspect it wouldn't be as easy to cut people out.

chocoraisin, but that's really helpful thank you. I hope all is going well with your pregnancy.

Ems I'm perfectly aware I may be being a bit judgy and this is why I am posting on here for some perspective. You assumed wrongly when you said he had not asked me to lie for him. He put me in an awful position shortly after it kicked off when I ended up having to pretend to DSIL that I didn't know he had another woman when she broke down about it when she came over for coffee. I am not proud of it but I pretended it was news to me so she didn't think she was the last to know.

FWIW, it's really not as simple as me being offended that this OW has turned up. I couldn't give two hoots about how it affects me personally.. My dB is well aware that i think he's a dick. The way the whole thing was handled caused massive fallout across the whole family.. As for sitting in judgement, I make no apologies for thinking that walking out on a tiny baby the week before Christmas - as well as the DW who had a frankly awful experience bringing her into the world - was a terrible thing to do. I am not sure I'll ever forgive him for that. It still makes me so angry to think about sitting in cafe Nero 2 days before Christmas with my 60 year old father sobbing on my shoulder because he thought SIL might go back to her home country with DN.

My DSIL is doing ok yes, but her whole life has been turned completely upside down. She puts a brave face on things. Her parents, justifiably, hate my brother. DSIL thinks the thing with OW all happened after they spilt. I don't know how she would feel if she knew the truth.

I am not sure I will ever forgive my DB for te havoc he's caused. While I don't know the OW and so don't know the full extent of her culpability she was complicit in this whole thing and is therefore not someone I really want to welcome ino the family with open arms.

You want to cut people out because of the unbelievably cruel and selfish way the adulterer often behaves.

Why not decide that you don't love your DP but wait until after Xmas has passed before doing anything about it, then, gradually let her realise that you are no longer in love with her.

Promise you will alwyas love DD and always give her the time and love she deserves.

Apologise and explain that you have found someone else you want to live with/marry then make arrangements to get together causing as little upset as possible. Explaining to DPs and other family. Apologising and Asking for acceptance. Try to make things easy for future exs, do not rub their noses in it.

I spose it's human nature that a regular shag with NP takes precedence over everything else and sod DCs and too bad for future ex.

OP I completely understand where you are coming from. Affairs are just the shittiest things :(

SGB - I know you don't believe in monogamy, but actually if you marry someone, then you don't just have the right to shag other people behind their back and be vile to them as the OP's brother has been.
Yes relationships end, but if someone is unhappy then they should leave before they hop into someone else's bed.

These two nasty fuckers have destroyed the families of 4 children.

At least Orange's DN isn't having a new Daddy imposed on him months after it happened like the other 3 children.

That people could justify doing this because they fancy themselves "in love" beggars belief.

They are utter cunts, the pair of them.

Athinginyoulife

While the brother may not have behaved very well, it still isn't the OP's business to punish him. FWIW just because the rest of the family liked the XW, it doesn't necessarily mean that the marriage was happy, it might not have been. And sometimes, when everyone is pushing a person to stay in a relationship that the person has outgrown or is unhappy in, you end up with this sort of fallout, because it's up to the person in the relationship to decide whether to stay or go.

whilst I agree with SGB thing is they invented a condom and this twit could have worn a condom and not got his wife pg if the marriage wasn't happy. No one forced him to have sex and make a baby. that is the part that sticks in the throat as utterly selfish and I can understadn that the op might not want to punish but still her feeling towards him for what he has done to someone she has grown to think of and love as family, are still raw.

I totally understand where you're coming from Op & sympathise as its a horrible thing that your B has done.

Natashabee summed it up earlier for me - be nice to her children as I feel for them, but I'd definitely give your B & OW a wide berth & id be telling them why if they asked.

As have own twunt of a brother who has left 2 women with babies and know for fact that last one was an affair with OW who fully well knew...can't be arsed having anything to do with any of his OW...keep in contact with the mother of nephew 2..only one I know that they were both properly single when met...
first baby mamma very understandably has gone awol...

Current OW who colluded in last break up is due to be replaced...he is currently on 2 dating sites...

Thing is this behaviour has huge consequences for all extended family...the best I could hope for future impact limitation is to meet him in a dark alley with 2 bricks and stop any more babies.

If you like SIL keep up that relationship....be lovely to OW kids if you ever meet...not their fault.. and just generally keep away, likelihood is she will be replaced soon enough.

At least Orange's DN isn't having a new Daddy imposed on him months after it happened

Well OP says that her SIL is seeing someone, so maybe not imposed, but life has moved on.

People do split up, it happens. But life is too short to bear a grudge against your own brother. His life is his life, and if he has children with this new woman, they will be part of your blood family too.

Athing, would you honestly disown your own child if their relationship broke down? if you then had grandchildren from that new relationship, would you not want to know them either? :(

"Athing, would you honestly disown your own child if their relationship broke down?"

Not if their relationship broke down.

But if they shat all over their family in this way, then I would never be able to think of them in the same way again.

It is truly shameful to discard a family in this way.

There are other ways to end a marriage that don't completely destroy the people to whom you owe a duty of care, even if you have decided you don't love them any more.

"While the brother may not have behaved very well, it still isn't the OP's business to punish him."

Sure it is.

He's behaved like an utter shit.

And anyone who chooses can punish him for his unjustifiable cuntishness.

Right. I haven't read the thread, I'm just piling in.

Your B is entitled to decide to leave his wife if he feels all love for her is gone. To continue to live with her under those circumstances would be cruel, and a lie, and she deserves better. However awful it must be to be left, surely it is worse to find out years later that he only stayed out of pity or duty, especially if he just continued to lie and be adulterous. So I suppose he did the decent thing under the circumstances.

However, what an utter utter bastard. What a horrible self-absorbed prick. And as for the OW - has she no shame?

You DSIL sounds fanastic. You are lucky to have her and she is lucky to have you. I'm sure your B would like to hope that she will quietly slip out of your lives to save him any future awkwardness, but if you love her then keep her close and he will just have to live with it. For the rest of his life hopefully, and long after the OW has moved on or been ditched.

I think the only thing you can do when you meet the OW is be frostily civil. Practice PARD. Stay dignified, but feel free to maintain an aloof distance - you owe her nothing. Don't feel obliged to keep up a pretence of warmth if it hurts you. Talk as much as you are required to do without appearing rude, ie. answer her if she speaks to you, but don't draw her into conversation or go out of your way to make her feel comfortable or 'ok' about everything, because it's not 'ok' it's bloody awful, and she has to take it on the chin. She has to do her pennance and so does he. They drop this bombshell and just expect everyone to be nice to them to save their consciences. It might take you months/years before you can look either of them in the eye and not feel sickened, but they would be being unreasonable if they did not understand/expect that, and so they should just suck it up.

But be nice to her children. They are victims in this too.

And don't kiss her when she leaves. Even if everyone else does.

I can understand you are angry, but how many times on MN, when a woman comes on saying they don't love their husband anymore (he's grumpy/don't like him/possibly unfaithful/all love gone) do people say: it's your right to chose, you don't HAVE to spend the rest of your life with this person if you don't want to. Well, the same is true of your brother. Yes, he's a dick that he didn't realise this before having a baby, yes, he has caused a lot of hurt to his wife (although she does seem to have come out of it ok), but ultimately, his life, his decision. As SGB says, don't be the marriage police, who knows what was going on?

It's great if you can keep contact with his wife and your niece, there's no reason for them to be excluded from the family and I would make it very very clear to him that they are family and that's that, however awkward his twattish behaviour has made everything.

Don't assume this won't last. I was very angry with my dad's OW when he first left my mum, but over 15 years later, it's water under the bridge and I actually like her and love her as part of our family. There comes a point when everyone has moved on, including the main players, and if you still continue to hold a grudge, it won't help anyone.

However, equally, you don't know how long this lady will be around. I would be polite but not much more, and as nice to the children as you are able. But playing happy families is probably not appropriate at this point.

I think HMQ has it spot on. You dont have to be nice to someone who has behaved apallingly, even if they are your brother.

But do stick with your SIL, she really needs your support. When my ex left us for OW, his family closed ranks and wouldnt give me the time of day. His dad blamed me and phoned and said 'my son is a good man and he must have had a good reason to go off with someone else'. It was incredibly hurtful and although he subsequently apologised when he realised what had gone on, we now hardly ever speak. MY DC now rarely see their GP which is a shame.

To answer EMS:

If my children behaved like this EMS, I would let them know the full extent of my views. I would be VERY disappointed in them, and I would let them know. I would support my DILs and any children before them.

And the OW would have to go through a very deep and unpleasant interview. Which she would not enjoy one little bit. But as my kids know that, it wouldn't come as any surprise.

You know, there is a huge confusion about 'unconditional love' where children are concerned in modern life. Unconditional love means: whatever you do, you will always be loved. BUT you are ACCOUNTABLE for your behaviour. And my job as a parent? Is not to lovingly wash over whatever you do, but HONESTLY ORIENT (Alice Miller) you in the world. So twuntish behaviour gets held up to the light.

Lovingly excusing children from their consequences DOES NOT do them any favours, it is not honest and actually it is not loving (because love is honesty).

The dust will settle. Give it time. Your new SIL may be a great laugh, and be a great friend to you in the future. I know that seems risible now, but life goes on.

Soon enough your old SIL will remarry or cohabit, and look upon this breakup as the best thing that ever happened to her. Your bro and his new gf may well settle down, have more kids etc. It happens.

My mum left my dad for his best friend. If some people think my loving, wonderful parents and step parents are 'cunts' then I feel sorry for them. My step dad is an amazing grandad and is very much at the heart of our family. My dad and my step mum, likewise.

I'm not saying the fresh, raw part isn't difficult. It can be agonizing. But do you really have the energy to maintain enmity for years and years when all the protagonists have moved on?

Life is messy but we make the best of it. This will all seem much less black and white in a matter of months.

The adults involved can be treated in any way you want OP, but you've just got to be nice to the kids. It's not their fault and they shouldn't be treated differently to any other children of the family. That means that if you're going to see DB and his new family at Christmas, Easter etc- and I can see why you wouldn't- you'll need to bring presents for the DC too, if you'd do that for other nieces and nephews.

I had a stepmother and her mother was horrible to me and my sister. She clearly wished we'd go away so her precious daughter and granddaughter (not my dad's child) could have this fabulous new man all to themselves without any grubby reminders of the fact that he'd just left a wife and two daughters to be there.

She owned a sweet shop and when we went there she would let her own GD pick whatever she wanted (and more than one thing) from the display, and then she'd begrudgingly hand me and my sister one thing each of her choice.

There is no limit to how abominably some adults can behave towards blamless children when they have an axe to grind.

That's why I'd just cut the brother and all those around him a wide berth until I felt better about it all.

I couldn't bring myself to be around him, tbh.

No experience, and haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been said, but my response to how to treat her children would be to treat them in the way you'd want her siblings to treat your DN.

Not sure if that helps though!