Trying to get some perspective

[NotHappyEither]

Hi, I've been thinking of starting a thread for a while. I feel like I'm struggling to get any perspective in my head about mine and DH's relationship.

We've been together nearly 9 years, have two dc 5 and 3. For a long time I've not been happy but because of the dc have tried to put any doubts or issues aside in my head. It seems this only works temporarily because a couple of little things happened recently and my head has exploded with a shouting voice saying 'what are you doing, this is not what you want.'

People often comment what a lovely couple/family we are or how lucky we are. DH works hard and will do any amount of work to support us. He is good with the kids and does loads round the house. I cannot work out if I'm just being ungrateful, I can't work out how much is normal 'married life,' as in I understand life is not always easy going. I think I just need someone to say either get over yourself, life is good you've got nothing to complain about or no you are right this is not normal.

To try to explain what I mean. DH can be quite difficult at times, he doesn't particularly like to socialise (even though he did when we got together, that was one of the things I liked!) and no matter where we go I always feel like I have to watch the clock and make excuses to leave early because he always wants to be anywhere for the minimum time, even out with family etc.

I don't feel I can argue with him. I can't just say like 'oh whatever' and walk away when we have a disagreement because he would just follow me and shout me down. Numerous times he has sworn and shouted at me in front of the dc (I know that sounds bad but I'm not talking as a weekly event or anything.) I feel like I would not accept being spoke to like that by anyone else but when I say it's not acceptable he'll say he doesn't mean anything by it or, it's just what he's like. He's always really sorry afterwards but to be honest I don't ever believe it anymore.

He is obsessed with sex. It's like he is constantly waiting for it. I used to have a good sex drive and still often feel like I want it but he's ruined me actually ever wanting it with him because of a) the way he is and how he makes me feel and b) because he's always always wants it. I know that sounds ridiculous. We still do have sex though because he is so grumpy when we don't.

Anyway, I decided the other day I had to say something so I told him how I felt (not about the sex bit) and now he is being lovely. Really lovely. He genuinely seemed like he didn't really know how bad it was. I told him I had mentioned these things before and he hadn't listened so why should I believe he would change now and he said he didn't realise how badly they were effecting me and he knew really it was wrong and should have sorted it out before. But he doesn't want to lose me so he's going to do everything to change. I kind of believe him. The thing is I'm sure we've done this before but maybe it is different this time. I'm sure I have told him this all before and it is fine for a few months or even longer but then he's back to being him. It feels like he's walking on egg shells at the moment around me and not being himself and it's horrible because he is trying so hard and I know he does love me and I love him, I just don't know if in my head he can ever be the man I used to think he was?

I am so sorry it's so long. I can't say all this stuff in rl and it feels so good just to say it. I just need to know whether actually life is hard and I made my vows and as long as he does change this time I should just give him the benefit of the doubt and keep working at it together.

No, you're not crazy, it sounds pretty awful.

Can he have counselling to try and help him change his behaviour long-term this time?

He sounds very selfish, miserable and, unfortunately, you are gearing your whole life around keeping him happy. Unfortunately, selfish, miserable types are never happy.... but they will keep you trying to make them happy for as long as you're willing. It's how they control you.

He sees sex as recreational stress-relief or territory-stamping rather than an expression of love. If you're having sex to keep him happy and to stop him pressurising you rather than because you want to have sex, you are being controlled. It is totally unacceptable for a man to have sex with a woman against her will and there's even a word for it.

Shouting and swearing at you in front of the DCs is unacceptable. Even if it doesn't happen very often, your fear of a repeat performance means you are subdued, can't say what you think & are 'walking on egg shells' then it has had the desired effect of controlling your behaviour. Men who shout and swear at the mother of their children are not good fathers because they are setting a terrible example.

Being antisocial can be an effort to isolate you from a friends and relations. If his behaviour means you start becoming reluctant to accept invitations, he gets his own way.

Finally... controlling partners ALWAYS apologise and are ultra-lovely when they get challenged. They are invariably 'great guys', 'fantastic Dads' and so forth outside the home. By alternating very good with very bad behaviour they keep you wrong-footed and wondering - as you are - am I overreacting? Do not mistake cessation of bad behaviour as kindness. And they put on a good face outside the home because, should you express your concerns to a friend or relative, you get the 'surely not, he's such a nice man' reaction.

Can I just ask, in social situations, why are you the one clock watching and making excuses, if he is the one who doesn't want to be there?

"just give him the benefit of the doubt and keep working at it together."

Had to add... You're not currently 'working at it together' from what you describe. He bucks up for a few weeks when challenged and then goes back to the old habits. You're the one doing the work, making the allowances, giving the benefit of the doubt.

My suggestion is that you make yourself #1 priority from now on. Not 'leave the bastard' but stamp your authority on the relationship far more strongly and don't fall for the control tactics. Stop having sex just to keep him sweet. Deliberately stay late at social occasions if he pulls a face just to make a point - or leave him behind. Any shouting in front of the children, show him the door and tell him to come back when he's calmed down. Do not walk on eggshells any more. Walk tall with your head up.

In addition - because I suspect you won't have done this - make a life for yourself that is outside of him. Find independent employment, activities, hobbies and interests that mean you expand your social circle and make new friends. There may come a point in the future when you will be fed up with your husband's antics and this will make it easier to make the transition.

CailinDana because usually he has had a big old moan before about how long he wants to stay for (or not) and I can't stand the general grumpiness if we stay longer. I know he's clock watching to and I can't relax.

Cogito to be honest your first post is where my line of thinking has been gradually creeping towards. It just seems so hard to change the way I've viewed things. I don't generally think he means to control me he's just more like a child who does things to get life the way he wants them. It's not in a calculating way if you know what I mean. I'm just fed up with dealing with his over the top needs. No matter how good things are going, in his head there is always some problem or issue that requires much talking about and agonising over; job, family issues, etc, etc. It is as though he always has to have a problem on the go and then he uses this as an excuse for any general crappy behaviour. I told him I was tired of this and he has said he's going to be more positive but I just think he's not actually a positive person.

I have been trying to do the things you suggest in your last paragraph. The staying late at a social event was actually one of the little things that happened recently and the following fall out from that was what made me really begin to question whether I really believe he will ever change.

Whether it's deliberately controlling behaviour or just an extension of a naturally selfish/miserable personality, as long as you realise it's unacceptable and you don't have to tolerate it, that's the key.

Sometimes it comes down to basic compatibility. For many years I was in a relationship with someone rather like you describe. When we met we were quite young and I romantically thought that his 'angst' was not only attractive but fixable with the love of the right woman... i.e. me. Like you I discovered that 'angst' was his default setting, closely followed by 'grumpy', 'self-centred', 'jealous' and no amount of love and devotion could fix it. It ended when I stopped swallowing his 'poor me' crap, got tough & he found another mug woman to cheer him up instead.

Keep refusing to play ball and you'll see more of the real him. Good luck

I agree with what Cogito says.

Also the relationship seems totally one-sided - he moans and makes a fuss about going out so you watch the clock and go home early. Why? Why not just tell him to feck off home if he's going to be a miserable git and just stay out on your own?

I know what you're saying cailinDana it doesn't make any sense when I say it out loud! I should just tell him to feck off. I think over time though it's just slipped into this where I can't be bothered for me and the dc to live with a grump for days afterwards!

You are both right though and I do know it. What you say cogito rings very true. I was 19 when we got together, I was very different then having been in a very abusive (all four kinds of abuse) relationship for the last two years. He seemed fun and kind and so much better than my previous relationship (which I have only really recently accepted as abusive and not just written it off as a bad teenage period.) Now I am older, I have children, I'm doing a degree (from home) I know what I want in life and what I want to put up with. He is lovely most of the time and I could carry on for years and years with him but I'm just starting to realise that maybe one day I will wish I had stood up and spoke up a long time ago. I'm just not sure I'm being totally self centred and selfish?

What makes you think you're being self centred and selfish?

Some say self-centred, I call it putting yourself #1 priority, having high standards and not allowing yourself to be manipulated. If you are assertive, speak up and don't stand for any crap some will find it a threat... but far more will treat you with respect. My exH saw it as a threat and opted to bugger off with someone less challenging. Yours might go the distance. Whatever happens, it's better to live one day as a lion than 10 years as a lamb.

I think I'm being self centred because in my head I think maybe I just want to leave and be in my own little house with the dc, able to do what I want when I want. I want to be in a positive environment. I just can't decide if I really want that. He has literally been lovely today, he is so sweet and feels so bad and I know he is going to try really really hard to change.

I feel selfish because I am trying to be strong and let him make the changes and hopefully get us back on track but I'm fighting the urge to just say 'it's ok, we'll be alright.' I know that won't help him to change though, I have to be strong and make him see this behaviour cannot go on. The thing is, I honestly don't think the being lovely will last. Our relationship feels all out of joint, I'm so used to just saying 'it's fine' and then things are 'normal' again. I almost want to do it because if I don't just say it's fine and squash all the doubts down again, my head can't think straight because all I can think is, I don't want this.

When I actually properly imagine leaving him I know I would miss all the good bits, I'd think of all the times when we're getting along in our own little world and I would miss it. So I know really I probably don't want to leave him, I'm just so tired of feeling like this. I know I probably need some kind of counselling or something but there is no way we could afford it. I just wish I could make sense of things.