Not sure that elderly ILs should relocate....do I keep my mouth shut??

[mischiefmummy]

I copied this over from WWYD, as I'd love to have bit more feedback and avoid me putting my big foot where it is not wanted!!

My Ils are planning to move up north to be closer to my DP's brother and his wife. Initially the idea was for them to help with childcare, as both BIL and SIL work full-time, however, my MIL sees it more that they will have support should she get infirm later on in life. Both are mid 70s.

I don't get on with BIL and SIL (long story but we no longer speak) however prior to that my SIL told me that she would have no hesitation in putting FIL in a home should he survive MIL. He is a difficult character anyway, taciturn and lacking in social graces, and already quite disabled and reliant on MIL, however I feel it would be fair that this should be explained to them before they sell up and move away from where they have lived all their married life (and for my MIL, all her life!)

They are both very quiet people, who find it hard to make friends, and they lack social graces ie pleases, thank yous etc. They have very few interests beyond church (MIL) and singing (FIL)

Both BIL and SIL are very organised and very busy, and whilst they seem to think this is the perfect solution for all I don't think any of the parties have realised how isolated ILs will be and how reliant on BIL and SIL they will become. At least at the moment they have friends from church and the choir.

I have explained all this to DP and suggested he talk to his parents however he's always struggled to discuss anything with them so I can't see it happening.

I have first hand experience of three generation living with particularly difficult grandparents and my parents almost divorced.

So, do I keep shtum, or stick my neck out and tell ILs?

Thanks for reading so far.

It is their choice really

If they stay where they are what would happen to FiL if MiL died first?

Dad moved closer to us aged 75. He has made many friends through his new church

Tell your ILs your concerns but then respect their decision. If they go to church and enjoy singing they're more outgoing then the type that sits home all day in front of the TV. They will make new friends via those channels even if they are the quiet type. As for putting people in homes, cross that bridge when you come to it.

If you don't speak to BIL & SIL what have you got to lose really?

You could put it in such a way that you are showing concern for them; what about x, have you thought about y, are you sure SIL & BIL would be happy to care for you in your dotage, have you discussed it etc.

Your PIL deserve to be informed about everything before doing such a big move so late on in their lives; the grass is not always greener. My Gran moved from Winchester to be closer to us a year or two after my Grandfather died. She wanted to be nearer the sea, thought she would make friends easily (she is a very sociable woman and always has been), would have family nearby. However my sister & I were in our teens and didn't really need the "care" she thought we might, my mum was running her own business, doing a training course and a single parent to 2 children, and although she made some friends she pined for the life she had had previously. She downsized into a retirement flat thinking it would help her meet people, then complained that they were all a bit too "old" for her liking. She didn't want to sit in the lounge & listen to the local policemen talk about the 'yoof of today' or go to tea dances. Then the best friend she had made died very very suddenly and it really hit her hard. My sister and I had moved out, my Mum was remarried & she felt very isolated. She sold up and returned to Winchester. Not quite the picture perfect idea of life by the sea she was imagining!

What does your DP think? Could he broach the subject with them?

It's there choice.

Btw noone can be forced out of their home into an old people's home. Even if you involve ss it's still their choice.

Do you see much of your in-laws? If they moved would it mean you see less of the?

TBH if they know that you do not speak to SIL and BIL then anything you say will be seen as stirring and trouble making so I don't think you can mention that she said she's put FIL in a home. They are adults, they must have thought through all the long term implications and permutations of who gets left looking after who.

However, I don't think it would hurt for you to ask them if they have though seriously about how they will deal with losing their network of church friends etc.

Other than that I would stay out of it. They don't sound like the easiest people to be around so I'd say 'lucky you' and your SIL is welcome to it! If she wants the childcare then she can't complain if there are some reciprocal expectations.

Don't really see much of them, as they live 2 hours away and we are a family of six. They keep a very quiet house, very austere, no radio on, tv or music but don't chat either. After a few days the kids and I go loopy and although I do most of the cooking (as their fridge is always bare and she doesn't really do cooking for crowds) I don't like feeling like I'm taking over. I tend to stack up my lists of conversational topics but they are often exhausted after a couple of days, and they don't make the effort to respond.

They have some family locally to them now and yet see them very rarely.
I find them difficult to get along with, as does SIL however they are kind at heart but it think they have the impression that it will be all happy families if they move, however I'm not sure that BIL and SIL will really pop over and chat. SIL sees it as a way of avoiding the prolonged visits she currently endures. She's desperate to have more help with the kids so she and BIL can go out more. However, I never ask ILs as on the rare occasions I did it was clear she was overwhelmed by 2, never mind 4!!

Good to know that they cannot be forced into a home against their will.

I just worry new people won't make the effort as they can be quite inhospitable to their existing friends who know what they're like. For instance, on her 70th BD, a friend popped over with a present. MIL opened the door and I heard the friend say she'd told her husband she hadn't told him what time she would be back, ie I have all the time in the world to see you on your birthday. She came in briefly but wasn't even thanked or offered a cup of tea!! We were all just about to leave, but I would never not invite someone in, especially if they had just brought a gift!!
MIL just doesn't know how to make friends and FIL is very deaf and often very rude, although I don't think he realises.

If you are worried then how about trying to help them find a new church?

HerMajesty, as far as I know she is unaware we no longer speak.

DP struggles to talk to them on the phone (although he calls every week) and beyond, practical conversations, is utterly tongue-tied in their company!!

I'm happy for them to be someone else's responsibility however I don't want to be dragged up North to provide respite if SIL realises she's bitten off more than she can chew.

I'd like to say my bit as tactfully as possible, and make a swift exit left :o

If they are two hours away perhps you could arrange a visit with the children and make it clear that visits will be less fequent if they move away (my mother is 2 hours away and we now only visit for the day. ON is too stressful for everone as she is getting older).

Make sure you tell them how much SiL is looking forward to having more help with the children....

Deckswabber....I like your thinking!

That being said, she thinks by moving up North we'll visit more often as we'll have SIL's house available as well!!

I have told DP that he will be taking the kids on his on. Don't think SIL will like it thou' as she will be cooking for 12.......and she HATES cooking!! :o

Yes I know what you mean about being dragged up north! DH's parents did exactly the same thing to be nearer his stepmother's family, (5 hour drive for us) which was fine except we felt very guilty when in old age there were often problems like FIL being rushedinto hopsital and we could not get there at the drop of a hat, whereas her children could. It was their choice to move, but it still made us feel guilty that we not not always able to help with things on a practical level as and when they needed it.

If I may put my oar in here, as I have personal experience.

In my view, your SIL and BIL DO need to understand what may well happen and your ILs need to grasp what real life actually means when you get older.

My sister and I both live near our Mum, in fact about 20 mins away. M & D moved here about 20 years ago, my sister 20 years ago and then I came down about 15 years ago. We knew what we were letting ourselves in for...at least we THOUGHT we did. We knew nothing.

Dad died peacefully 6 years ago and shortly afterwards Mum developed vascular dementia, so as well as the hideousness of what dementia is (I'm guessing that your SIL hasn't experience of this??) Mum has become increasingly frail.

Long story short but for a number of years, Mum's dementia ruined my life. It took away my ambition, my energy, my motivation and any joy that I had in life. I tried to look for jobs as I'd resigned from a previous position...and I couldn't. I was "on call" all day and all night from everyone: doctors, the hospital, the Carers (don't get me started about THAT useless bunch of tossers), Mum's neighbours, the rest of my family everyone everyone everyone.

Phone calls started at 7.45am with requests from Carers to solve problems, continue with calls from the care agency, the Community Nurse etc and would sometimes end at midnight with Mum calling me to ask where Dad was. It was as if I simply didn't matter, didn't need to earn money (I support myself) and was just the helpline.

I still feel sick and very angry when I think about how people simply took the piss and how I wasn't able to say no. It's all changed now but I had to get very stroppy indeed and start refusing with a vengeance. Mum is now properly looked after with a different set of Carers and my life is (almost) my own. Of course, don't ask about my twin sister living down here who ran away and did...nothing.

Sorry for the long post but:

When elderly parents move near you BE VERY CAREFUL INDEED - without realising it or meaning to, they could ruin your life in a way you can't even begin to imagine.

Oh Lapis,

I can sympathise. I watched it happen when my parents moved my grandmother into the sitting room believing she only had six months to live.....she lasted 7 years and almost destroyed their marriage and ruined my teenage years. We were always at her beck and call, and she was so hideous to my mother (her DIL) and yet my mother was her primary carer (she resorted to putting her 'professional' head on as she worked for the NHS at the time).

Shortly after that they moved my maternal grandparents next door!! Then we had all three to deal with. It caused all sorts of family ructions and meant I pretty much never had any time with my mother for most of my teenage years. The grandparents didn't appreciate our privacy and used our house as an extension of their own. They were unhappily married for the entire 60years they were together and every year I asked if we could give them a divorce.

My mother no longer speaks to two of her siblings as a result. It was awful.

I'm so happy to hear that things have started to improve for you. It's horrible when things go so wrong when they were implemented for all the right reasons.

Thinking of you.

Blimey, mischiefmummy - sounds like your family had it pretty bad, too. Funnily enough, we had the same thing with my grandmother. She moved in with us (I was about 10, I think) and then just refused to die for several years (sorry - but that was how I felt) and affected family life for a long time.

Also, it's a good point you make about the odd "well done...carry on" (applause) from siblings when just one of you steps up to the mark.

OP - what are you thoughts?

your thoughts

So tricky because we know in most cases it's done to be kind and supportive (in SIL case I think she just wants cheap childcare and a release from a long drive south) but she no longer speaks to her dad or her sisters who are quite close by so I think she feels ILs should be there to help.

I can just see it all going horribly wrong and I don't want to have to pick up the pieces based upon my own childhood and also the lack of relationship with my ILs.

I can see myself doing more for my parents who are as mad as a box of frogs anyway but still young at heart. Ils seem to have been born old, and have a very dated outlook on life which is sometimes hard to stomach. I find myself listening to conversations with my DDs to make sure they don't get overly negative (or worse boys are intellectually superior to girls) messages!!

Is there a better way?

Very hard to say if there's a better way or not, to be honest.

Your SIL is in for a dreadful shock if she thinks that this is a good childcare solution ...if not next year then the few years after that.

I would just say: everyone, be very careful. You just need to take a look at the Alzheimers Talking Point discussion board to see countless women's lives ruined by running around trying to deal with the appalling effects of dementia on their parents.

I think there's a danger of your BIL and SIL becoming the total and utter focus of two people who, as you mention, have poor social skills and few friends and who will have NO social outlets or friends when they get there. Shudders

Can your DP say anything? Unfortunately, there are still parents out there who think that their children "owe" them. Even typing that sentence makes me SO ANGRY!!

MIL seems to have a dreamy idea that as everything is within walking distance, so she'll be able to cope. Although that is the case where they live now. She wants to be in a bungalow as so many people she knows have had life changing falls in their 70s. I think she could buy in the same area but she seems to want to be away from their old house as I guess she doesn't want to see what might happen to it with a new owner.

FIL will give up driving (we hope very soon). He already drives an adapted car but is concentration is poor.

I don't think BIL and SIL have anticipated trips to hospital etc as they get more frail.

MIL cannot see beyond her own ideas and its quite stubborn in her views. She used to work in a bank and was talking about getting a bridging loan in case they saw somewhere they liked but hadn't sold. I showed concern but in her mind that's what everyone used to do. When I told her it would cost about £6k to arrange and about £15k over 6 months she relented on phoned my financial advisor.

They were given their first house by her mother and then moved in with her mother when DP was about 15. By all accounts it was pretty horrendous and BIL slept in a box room (He's 6'4"!!) so they have no real experience of mortgages etc. Very unwordly, but set in their ways. Don't like holidays, just like routine!!

trips to hospital
trips to the doctor
picking up prescriptions
doing their shopping
ferrying them about
inviting themselves on holiday (the ILs I mean)
taking them on days out
driving them here, there and everywhere
helping them move in
DIY jobs about the house
getting phone calls
getting more phone calls
Buying presents for the family because they're too frail to do so
calling the police when one of them goes walkabout
getting Power of Attorney
Dealing with everything
everything
everything
looking after them like they're small children
having to live their lives for them

That's a very comprehensive list, Lapis! Thank you!

Maybe I could persuade DP to have a chat with them after he's read this thread.

It's only half of it, mischief!

Yes it would be a good idea for everyone to know what they -will almost certainly-may be dealing with x

hmmm ...that was me trying to do a strikethrough. Epic fail.

Lapis, I think you're great! You've been through a tough time, but you've still got a great sense of humour and some great words of wisdom!

I hope life continues to improve for you! x

Oooh you're nice!! Hope you get things sorted, too.