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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Infidelity, porn and possible EA: reality check and perspectives please

21 replies

RootPoot · 13/06/2012 16:09

Long story, sorry, for which I have name changed. I've read widely here and elsewhere, but posted little, and want to say a huge thankyou to the posters who have gone before me, as I've learned a lot from you all.

Back story: H had affair, seemed to change from essentially decent bloke to complete twunt, very messy time of lies, deceit and false reconciliations covering several months, we are now in the process of separating (difficult because neither of us is prepared to leave the family home and/or take final responsibility for breaking up the family). OW still on the scene. I have realised that some of his behaviour might be EA/passive-aggressive/narcissistic (not sure exactly which, but lots of things have been ringing bells especially after reading red flags thread). Thanks to MN, I am all set in terms of having taken legal advice, photocopied documents etc and have essential stuff stored at a friend's house nearby just in case. We have two DDs, primary school age and a pre-schooler.

I have been snooping in his computer history. I'm not particularly proud of this, but I wasn't getting any honesty from him, and I felt I needed to use whatever methods I could to work out what reality was, e.g. I was trying to find out if he had an alternative web-based e-mail account, or whether he'd been doing lots of internet banking transactions, finding divorce information etc. It didn't take me long to realise that he frequently (but not invariably) deleted his history.

What I found though was completely unexpected. He had been to a site for pornographic/erotic literature. I looked at one of the stories - it was a graphic and hugely unpleasant description of the rape act, and the perpetrator's satisfaction at the victim's distress. I had nightmares for a week after looking at it (and I consider myself fairly broad-minded). I don't think it's illegal because it's just words on a screen, but it was really sick stuff.

After thinking about it for a few weeks, I challenged him, saying I knew he'd accessed porn via the internet, without saying what exactly I'd found. He admitted viewing some vanilla porn (which I'd never found in his history) and minimised its significance. He didn't mention the nasty stuff, and I assume he believes I am not aware of it. I had only found this stuff on one occasion, and in theory he could have found it by accident and never actually read it. I filed this information in my memory as "reasons to be grateful I'll be rid of him", and let it go, as I didn't want to make home life or the divorce process any more unpleasant than necessary.

I'm still snooping from time to time. Not looking for OW contact any more, as I've moved past that, but keeping an eye out for potential financial abuse. I found recently he'd accessed the same rape-themed literature site again. One of the stories involved the rape of a child. So I've had to rethink. He didn't stumble across it by accident. He actually must enjoy reading this stuff. And given that he often deletes his history, I probably am only aware of the tip of the iceberg. And I am disgusted. It seems so out of character, even for someone who has cheated and lied and generally been a bastard. He's NEVER been sexually inappropriate with me (in fact he's had very little interest in sex at all for the past few years, and I've been the one asking for it), and I have no concerns whatsoever re violence. But his behaviour post-affair-discovery has revealed a cruel and callous streak, which makes me uneasy.

My reality check questions:
How common is it for men to look at this kind of stuff?
How bad IS it, really, to read this? Any worse than crime fiction, e.g. a murder mystery?
Is it illegal?
I've always been very comfortable with how he looks after our girls when I'm out, but should I rethink this?
He has a pillar-of-the-community type job, where he is involved with welfare of young (but not particularly vulnerable) adults - do I have a moral duty to inform his employer, or do I leave well alone?

I just feel paralysed. Everything I thought I knew about this man has turned out to be wrong. I was scared anyway of how things will work out re child access and finances, even before I found out about the porn. I don't want anyone else to know about this and I've not told anyone in RL. I'm afraid that if I let on I know, or inform anyone else, things will just escalate and be worse for me and the girls. And he's sufficiently Respectable, and his line manager knows of his affair (OW is at work) and subsequent marriage problems, that if I did say something I'm sure it would easily be turned around as the delusional rantings of a bitter, betrayed, soon-to-be-ex-wife.

But if feels like such a burden I'm carrying. And I've been wading through crap for so long that I've lost my judgement of what is normal or reasonable.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/06/2012 16:17

As you said further up the thread, reading is not the same as viewing and it's also not the same as participating. A lot of people have dark fantasies but can keep them quite separate from real life. A lot of people like vicariously experiencing things they find horrific via literature as it is a 'safe' medium. I've personally enjoyed (if that's the right word) reading some real-life serial-killer stories recently.... I have no intention of becoming one.

CrispyCod · 13/06/2012 16:25

I can see where Cogito is coming from however now that rape with a child has been mentioned I believe it changes things somewhat. Rape fantasies with another adult is one thing but kids, now that's just not right.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/06/2012 16:31

Rape isn't right, whatever gloss you put on it. It is quite possible to get sexually aroused, not by the subject matter per se, but from the fact that it is forbidden. You have to wonder why 'misery porn' is so popular and assume that at least some of the people buying books about child abuse are getting some kind of thrill from it.

RootPoot · 13/06/2012 16:38

I didn't read any of the stories this time (didn't want nightmares again). Just looked at the index page where there is a 1-sentence precis. One out of about half a dozen stories involved a child; the others were adults. I do not know which he clicked on, changed his mind and discarded, and which (if any) he read, and which (if any) he enjoyed.

OP posts:
LapisBlue · 13/06/2012 16:46

This is BAD. And grown up women matter JUST AS MUCH as a small child. You need to challenge him about this.

LapisBlue · 13/06/2012 16:48

Fantasies about harming, humiliating and hurting women and children of course, to which your Ex P has been masturbating, should surely disturb you big time. I can't emphasise this enough You have already said that this material upset you a great deal - why haven't you challenged him about this, OP?

ImperialBlether · 13/06/2012 17:08

Did you keep a record of the sites?

I'd be installing a keylogger on the computer.

joblot · 13/06/2012 17:50

Child porn is illegal and those who access it are complicit in child abuse. Vile.

BelieveInPink · 13/06/2012 18:12

No, I don't agree that in the case of THE RAPE OF A CHILD is different whether you're reading or watching. Both are abhorrent and I can't believe that people think that because it's only words on a screen that it somehow isn't as bad. It is.

OP. tell him you know. Final nail and all that.

BelieveInPink · 13/06/2012 18:13

And illegal.

Houseofplain · 13/06/2012 18:35

I maybe wrong but isn't sexual anything, be it pictures or words to do with the abuse of a child illegal? I don't think it's just pictures. I think porn depicting the rape and abuse of children is illegal. I would not hesitate in seeking advice anonymously from the police, they can then check his pc for any nasties he has hidden that even you can't find.

What a sick bastard.

Abitwobblynow · 13/06/2012 18:44

You say you have always felt odd about him watching your girls.

Even before this? Can you say more?

BelieveInPink · 13/06/2012 18:46

Yes it is illegal, in any form. As is any other extreme pornography, as of 2009.

bumbleymummy · 13/06/2012 18:48

Where did she say that abitwobbly?

BelieveInPink · 13/06/2012 18:49

OP said she has always been comfortable, Abit. But wondering if she should be worried now.

prettywhiteguitar · 13/06/2012 19:55

I think I would be seeking advice from the police quietly, they will be able to advise you and also find deleted files on the computer

What a shit thing to find in the middle of a break up, you are well rid

TwoPeasOnePod · 13/06/2012 21:54

OP, sorry to read about your situation :(

I had a thread on here earlier in the year after finding 'rape porn' videos saved mn my partners PC. In it, young woman (but still appeared to be of legal consent age) etc etc

The replies on that thread may help you, they certainly helped me, but the child aspect of what your H has been reading is UTTERLY VILE, and I'm sorry but I disagree with a PP who said women who are raped matter as much as children- no, children matter much more, thay are not even pubescent, and would be much less able to deal with the act/aftermath. Women may (very very unfortunately) need help, but children need absolute protection by responsible adults.

On my thread, lots of posters suggested calling the police, and the rape-of-an-adult porn was nowhere near as bad as what you have found, because what your H has looked at/read is child porn. Why take ANY risks? He MAY have clicked on it 'by accident', but it is not worth the risk that he also may be a sick cunt. Lots of people are very sick cunts, my P was a respectable and nice/normal bloke; until I found out what he's like inside.

Some people will doubtless say I am being too alarmist, but I would not take risks; you aren't getting along, have no reason to, and i wouldn't leave a child/ren with him alone.

Take the computer to the police, tomorrow first thing. Whoever wrote that thing is either a paedophile, or complicit in providing material for paedophiles. Your H has accessed it. End.

TwoPeasOnePod · 13/06/2012 22:05

And FWIW, I felt uncomfortable with P looking after our DC after the discoveries I made on his browsing history, and what he downloaded was all to do with adult women not kids. I absolutely will not compromise my DCs safety, even though at heart I know fine well their dad is of no risk to them; I cannot fully prove this though, and so there is no situation where there is even the potential for doubt.

So do not minimise ANY feelings of distrust you have towards him regarding your DC. A man who is aroused enough to wank until he comes over the idea/writing/video of another person/woman/child/man/dog (who knows what else gets him going) being abused, hurt, terrified- is not a normal person and in their core, does not possess acceptable boundaries. It is commonly linked with people who have no or low empathy, or are casually cruel towards animals etc- all red flags. My P used to drown kittens for fun when he was a child, yet people believe hes totally normal, they would never dream he would do that or enjoy rape porn.

I got that horrible kind of nervous adrenaline/sick feeling reading your post, please be strong enough to see what's in front of your face, regardless of how hard it is. It was hard for me, and my situ was (imo) easier than your in most respects, post here and gather support and perspective

maleview70 · 13/06/2012 22:27

I suppose that it is possible that he actually gets his kicks from this adult rape literature and that he accessed a child one by mistake, realised and then shut this down. Whilst it is distasteful in the extreme to get any sexual pleasure from rape themes involving over 18 women, some people unfortunately do get their kicks from this.

I dont think that type of literature is illegal but I would imagine the child one is.

However someone with an interest in children is likely to have hundreds or thousands of images on their computer not just one isolated site visit.

As your Dh deletes his history it is difficult to tell whether he has accessed any other sites with children on but I believe there are programs that you can purchase that will help you find out this even when he has deleted them on the history, as I have read about people buying these to catch errant partners etc..

Either way your decision to get rid is clearly sound but I would be concerned about my children if I were you and would look further into this.

RootPoot · 13/06/2012 23:24

Thanks for your thoughts. Replying on phone now, hence brief.

Yes, I know it's bad. I'm just not sure quite how bad, and the main question is whether he is a risk to the kids. Gut feeling is that they are in no danger, but I've been wrong about him before... And that makes me uneasy.

I can't install a keylogger. It's a new laptop that I can only quickly look at if he's logged in but leaves the room briefly. I've only had chance to quickly photograph the history on screen, then I use the family computer to work out later what the sites were.

The first time I found the site, it was on the family computer. I did install a program to view deleted histories, but it came up with nothing. It's possible that H had installed a clean-up program though.

I have found no porn images or videos on either computer. I think the child thing might be a red herring - looking at the site layout it would have been easy to click by mistake.

Nobody has commented on the work situation yet - any thoughts?

I just want to extricate me and the girls from this situation as painlessly and safely as possible. I have not confronted him because I don't see how that helps us. He would lie, deny, minimise, explain away or justify him accessing these sites. I would end up feeling even worse that I had snooped.

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 13/06/2012 23:35

Thing is, loads of people like to read graphic descriptions of physical and sexual abuse of children. But because the stuff they slobber over is marketed as 'Harrowing true stories' rather than 'Phwoar this will get your knob throbbing' it's seen as perfectly OK and sold openly in bookshops. Mind you, plenty of people like to read stories about rape, murder and dismemberment, which again are openly sold in bookshops. Sometimes these stories are called literary classics (whether they are any good or not).
The thing to remember is that when it's words no one has been harmed in the making of it. And you don't know whether your STBXH is actually reading it with his cock in one hand and his mouse in the other, or whether he (like those freakish people who devour all the misery memoirs) reckons he's doing something virtuous and Understanding the Dark Side Of Human Nature.

I also think you should stop snooping. Your marriage is over, you are leaving him, and what he does with his cock or his computer is no longer any of your business.

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