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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it unreasonable to think you end up in a brother/sister style relationship after X years?

20 replies

Tamashii · 13/06/2012 08:46

OH and I have not been getting along for a long time. We have 2 DS's together and it got to the stage where we were basically living in the same house but he completely acts as if I don't exist.

Anyway, as a result I have been looking back at how things have got so bad. We had been together 15 years and had kids in past 4 years. We only had sex to make a baby really and since then we never EVER had sex. I won't even pretend to call it making love as it was kind of like we had to do it to keep up the pretense of being a couple. We ended up like brother and sister I suppose right down to having stupid arguments like you would have with a sibling, winding each other up and there was no love left. Just "I still love with you but am not IN love with you" stuff....

So I am just wondering, is he right when he says the majority of relationships end up with a couple being more like flatmates after such a long time together and then with 2 young kids it's like we never get ANY time together and have no family nearby to help so we can have a "date night". He kept saying we had no money for a date night anyway.

I think we just ended up resenting each other...

I am just reassessing everything just now as we would really like to try and see if we can possibly salvage anything as I don't want to end up sharing my amazing boys with someone who hates me.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/06/2012 09:03

Of course he's not right. A couple I used to know in their eighties still had a very distinct twinkle in their eye after being married for 50+ years and with four children. Held hands in the street and everything. Lots of people find the arrival of children & busy lives means it's a bit more difficult to find couple time but that doesn't mean they stop trying. There are plenty that end up glaring at each other across the cornflakes resenting each other like crazy & wishing each other dead, but sticking around because they don't want to move to a smaller house or something daft.... doesn't make it right.

You only get one shot at life. No point wasting it saddled with someone that you don't like much.

CailinDana · 13/06/2012 09:10

No he's not right. DH and I are together nearly 11 years (not as long as you I know), have one toddler and are still madly in love. At the very least you should like your partner and enjoy being around them, otherwise what's the point? I feel very sorry for children who have to see their parents bickering.

Tamashii · 13/06/2012 09:13

I know. You are right and I don't even know why I am asking this question. Maybe I am looking for some outside opinions to help me decide I don't need to keep trying when he's obvs already given up. Why would he want to "try to salvage things" though... Is it the same as me because you just hate theidea of splitting up the family and having to "share" my boys?

Thanks for replying.

OP posts:
witchwithallthetrimmings · 13/06/2012 09:18

i think lots of relationships do end up like this, in part because people have the same low expectations as your dp. you can fall out of love just because you close down that bit of your mind and body. It happens so easily combining children and work is so hard that we tend to think of the household as a firm where everybody has their job. So long as everybody does their job things run smoothly. But there is a crucial difference at work chats round the water cooler and friday night drinks are periphiral. At home this kind of thing is crucial

ShellyBobbs · 13/06/2012 09:23

I've been with my hubby for 14 years, married for 11, we have 3 children with another on the way Shock We really are the very best of friends, but there is nothing brother/sister about it, we are still madly in love and regularly embarrass the kids with kisses and cuddles. We don't dtd 5 times a day like we used to and sometimes it's lucky if it's once a week but we have a very happy marriage.

Maybe now it's surfaced, it's crunch time, have the chat, is it worth going on with this relationship? Is there anything to save or do you both go your own ways and find happiness with other people whilst you're both young enough to do this?

It's not normal to have a relationship like this.

ShellyBobbs · 13/06/2012 09:25

As witchwithallthetrimmings said relationships take constant work, that's what I wanted to say, you can't sit back and expect to stay happy.

Mumsyblouse · 13/06/2012 09:28

I don't think this is inevitable, but the brother/sister thing is common. However, if I lived with my brother, I would hope I wouldn't ignore him or snipe at him all the time anyway!

Your husband seems to have a million and one reasons why things can't change. This is not good really, because you both would have to work on it to make things different. Of course you could have a date night (swop babysitting with another couple, don't do something else and pay a student/young friend to come and babysit). He just doesn't sound like he wants to make the effort.

I would not want to live like this, especially the lack of sex or sex only for procreation. It all sounds rather grim, why do you think he doesn't want to change it?

TheCrackFox · 13/06/2012 09:33

I have been with DH for nearly 20yrs and we have a great sex life.

If I lived with my brother one of us would end up dead.

Kikithecat · 13/06/2012 09:36

I think it's normal not to feel so 'in love' after many years together, but it doesn't mean you lose respect for each other or don't still enjoy spending time together when you can.
I think in you case the problems are different - especially as you said you only had sex to have the babies. It looks like things were already going badly.

mrspepperpotty · 13/06/2012 09:41

I've been with my DH for 15 years too and we have had 3 DCs in the last 6 years. We are kind and loving to each other. However we did have a chat a couple of years ago about how he felt we had drifted into more of a brother/sister relationship - I think this was basically his codeword for "I want to have sex more often"! Since then we have both made more of an effort to spend quality time together and have sex more often.

Why would he want to "try to salvage things" though... Is it the same as me because you just hate theidea of splitting up the family and having to "share" my boys?

I think it may be more than just staying together for the sake of the boys. Hopefully what he means is that you did once love each other very much and he feels that you could recapture that if you try - it hasn't been lost completely, but it's been buried under sleep deprivation and the constant demands of young children.

You don't need to get a babysitter and leave the house to have date night! Just have a takeaway or cook a nice meal together and keep the TV and the computer switched off for the night!

NeedingQuiche · 13/06/2012 13:53

Reading your post was like reading my thoughts. I'm exactly there right now and posted about this yesterday. I have no idea what to advise really.
We have had 'the chat' and after 4 years of depression where he simply couldn't change, DH wants us to work at things, but I'm hesitant and can't explain why. I'm just not sure its what I want any more, but equally I'm hoping that it is just a phase we are going through as I do love him.
I'm going to try digging out some old photos and see what memories come back as at the moment I feel like things have never been that great, but I'm hoping this is just my state of mind at the moment and not the reality. Maybe you and DH could do the same? Remember how you used to be pre children and do some bonding over memories of better times?

Tamashii · 13/06/2012 14:36

Ach I just did a big reply and my browser crashed n I lost it. The post that it not lost it mentally!

NeedingQuiche Your name makes me want a quiche by the way... All I can think about just now is all the things he has said and done in the past that have been really nasty and uncalled for and things he has done. I am starting to think he is just a big bully although I did find a couple of old birthday and anniversary cards last week that he had written some really thoughtful and meaningful things in and I don't know that man any more. I just keep remembering the first time he was completely Mr Hyde with me and how I WISH I could turn back time and tell 23 year old me to get out and run for the hills. Then I wouldn't have my 2 DS's though who are my world and if it wasn't for them I might have left before now but probably not... I worry that I am just being unreasonable and overreacting to things which is what he will say if I DO get together with him and have The Chat...

We have had a big talk before the last time we got to this stage and obviously things changed, got back on track and we ended up having DS2 as things seemed to be going great and we wanted to complete our family. Now having a baby and a young child along with me not being back at work and him facing the threat of redundancy AGAIN it just feels like we are a couple of zombies. All the energy is used in being positive for the boys and trying to be good parents but when they go to bed it's like I no longer exist. Unless he wants to relay a story about how shit life is and how this country is going down the pan and I have to drop everything and listen or he goes in a serious huff.

Oh, I am getting off topic now. I think things are pretty much over but I am not ready to be the one to just finish it as I know I will have to deal with everyone blaming me for "ruining the boys lives" and splitting up the family. My Dad would tell me to stay together with him as we have children and therefore we have to work at it for their sake. I don't agree with this but I am risking my Dad's wrath if I do leave.... but hten again, if I explained what it has been like and that I am not one to give up on something maybe he would think I am doing the right thing.

I am just terrified I will do the wrong thing. I am depressed just now and am scared it is clouding my judgement. My brother always told me not to make any life changing decisions when I am depressed (obviously I guess) but at the moment I am not sure if I will be able to recover if I stay in a loveless relationship...

If only there really was someone like Phil Spencer who could turn up and tell you how to declutter your relationship so it would be "sellable" again u know?

Sigh....

OP posts:
takeitaway · 13/06/2012 15:42

Hi Tamashii, can you talk a bit more about the whole 'Mr Hyde' thing? Maybe that's the real reason you are not getting along, and the reason you are depressed, even. Sad

Tamashii · 13/06/2012 16:47

Ohhhh takeitaway ... It probably is the real reason behind it all. I have asked for advice on here about emotional abuse/narcissists/bullying basically and it always just turned into a "leave him NOW!" reply but I have never mentally reached that stage until now. I am still scared to leave though.

There have been various things over the years now and again and I seem to have memorised them like little video clips and now I have a good few but the ones that stick out the most are the very first time when we had been dating about 6 months and we were out with another couple (he worked with the guy) for a night out at Xmas. We were having a laugh and I accidentally split his pint down his shirt a little bit and he LOST it. At me though - he managed to do it right in my face without looking angry but he was raging at me like he snapped. He just lost it at me saying I was an f-ing idiot and did I think that was f-ng funny etc and this was 2 seconds after we were all just lauging and have a brilliant time. He turned to his mate smiling and went "Whoops! I must be worse than I though - I spilt my pint! Ha ha ha" and they went off to the bar together laughing and joking and he shot the dirtiest look over his other shoulder at me and then turned back to his mate laughing away. Neither of the other 2 noticed a thing. I burst into tears and when he came back from the bar he gave me a hug n was all nice like "What happened? What made you so upset?" and I was like YOU! Shouting at me! and when his mate asked what was up he said I was crying because it was Xmas and my Gran had died a few days before (which she had) but what a fast response and disrespectful to cover up what had actually happened. This made things awkward cos it is when someone has died so that was a perfect response for him since no one asked any further questions and he said "Just give her some space" so he could take me away and calm me down so I wouldn't tell them what happened. He said he lied about it to them as he didn't want to embarrass me cos I did a stupid thing and looked like an idiot so why would I want him to say anything and make me look like a further idiot. We had a massive fight and I stupidly went back to his as my stuff was there as we were meant to be staying with each other over Xmas and he begged me to give him another chance (one of many things he now completely denies) but I went home. He turned up at mine the next day and my flatmate let him in and he was sooooo charming I thought it was the drink that had made me overreact and he was super nice to me for a long time after that until the next incident.

It has been like that on and off since but calmed down a lot and now he is more covert about it.

I remember when we moved in together my Dad had kindly been helping us with stuff like letting in workmen, furniture deliveries etc and one night OH came in from work and my Dad was still here. I had put the security chain on the front door since Dad was in and out with stuff for us and OH tried to get in, nearly broke the chain ramming the door open and shut (you can CLEARLY see when the chain is on) just to let me know he was pissed off (but it looked like he was really going "Oh??? Why can't I get in???" to my Dad) and rather than wait for me to let him in he ran round to the back door, let himself in, gave me the blackest look right into my face went "What the f*ck is that chain on for? Can't even get into my OWN HOME" hissing at me and a big smile "ALl right mate!" and a handshake for my Dad. I was :o and said "Did you see that????" to my Dad. "See what?" - once again OH managed to be sooooo evil to me in front of someone without them even seeing it.

No one would EVER believe me if I told them half of this stuff. He is charm itself to 99% of people and sometimes if he is confronted about something he will cut the person off spectacularily with a couple of well chosen comments but no one seems to bat an eyelid. He does it with a big smile too. Everyone thinks I am so lucky to have him. Of course he can be amazing too otherwise I would likely have left and not been sucked into all of this but when things go wrong he is a big horrible tr0ll and when things are good he is really nice and I wonder why I am overreacting so much. My best friend tells me I should keep the txts I send her when things are bad so I can read them back and realise this is how I actually felt at that time rather than smooth things over and put onthe rose tinted specs.

There are numerous other things that have happened but he has been working on it so that he no longer appears to lose his temper and he NEVER shouts now - he LOVES to use this "But I am not shouting.... Why are you being so defensive - it's like you're walking on eggshells" because I told him before I didn't like him shouting at me, getting defensive and making me feel like I am walking on eggshells.

He will walk off when I am in the middle of talking to him but he holds court to tell a story even if I am changing the baby/washing the dishes/runnig bath for LO's and I am expected to drop everything and give him ALL my attention but not question or comment on anything he says. I have found myself fake laughing at jokes and agreeing with stupid things I defo DON'T agree with and it only became clear I was doing this when I was out with my best mate and SIL as they were like "What's so funny?" and they weren't laughing at stuff I was going "A HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAA!" at with this fake laugh that was so not me. They just looked at me like "Eh?" and then laughed at me in disbelief as if they were thinking "Who are you?!"

Anyway, I think that is enough before I OUT myself on here... More recent stuff is a lot less confrontational but when DS1 was born I had PND and never told him and had to sneak off to councelling saying I was going to the dentist to explain why I was crying (I am terrified of the dentist) when I came home. My Mum died and I was in a right mess. We ended up at a party and I just couldn't handle it and burst into tears. People were like "I totally understand - we didn't even really expect you to come" but OH bascially made it like I HAD to go (don't know why I didn't stand up for myself but was depressed) and when I left he walked me out to the car (he stayed to show face at the party) and he said to me "Well THAT was really embarrassing... This better be because your Mum died..." ie it better not be the PND and leaving newborn baby at home with his Mum for the first time as I would not be allowed to be upset over that... What a big shit.

THAT kind of thing is why I can't sit and look at old photos of us together just now cos all I am remembering is "Oh yeh, and not long after that amazing night out and romantic meal he turned round and called me a neurotic bitch who x,y,z"

Sorry for massive post.

Can of worms well and truly opened...

I better not tell any other stories or it will be super obvious who I am :( Not that it matters cos it's all true!

(if I suddenly cut off the message it's because he has appeared home from work - he NEVER EVER tells me when he will be home from ANYTHING)

OP posts:
Tamashii · 13/06/2012 16:48

Sorry - that was massive... massive rant.

OP posts:
sc2987 · 13/06/2012 17:02

Brothers and sisters don't abuse each other. YABU and you should leave for your children's sake even if not your own. They will notice this sneaky stuff as they grow up even if they haven't already, and it will make them more likely to become abusers themselves.

AnyFucker · 13/06/2012 17:39

I really don't think you should force yourself to shag this guy, nor to "try and make it work"

I think you should divorce him

Even my brother (who can be an an annoying little shit) wouldn't treat me like that

You are in abusive relationship, not a brother/sister one

takeitaway · 13/06/2012 19:45

Sorry, Tamashii, but you know all the 'nice' Dr Jeckyll stuff isn't real. Your problem isn't that you're living like brother and sister, it's that you're living with a sly, emotionally abusive tyrant. Of course you don't want to have sex with him! And nor should you.

All I can suggest, if you don't feel like you're ready to separate yet, is that you start to confide in people. Talk to friends that you trust, maybe let someone in your family know what's going on. Why are you protecting your H? Why don't you want people in RL to know what he's like? Is it out of loyalty, or are you ashamed, or are you scared? Whatever the reason, it's not healthy. Once you let other people in on what's happening, you may find it gives you the impetus to make your next move - hopefully somewhere away from your H!

mrspepperpotty · 14/06/2012 07:33

OK I take back my post. He sounds like a twat.

AgathaFusty · 14/06/2012 08:24

It seems that you are staying because you have children, and because you fear that others will criticise you for leaving when your children are young.

The reality is that children shouldn't have to grow up in a household/family where one parent treats the other as he treats you. They will pick up on this stuff, they will normalise it and think that is what adult relationships are like, and he will most likely start to treat them with the same contempt as he treats you when they are older - just because he can. They don't deserve that.

Leaving him and making and happy home for your children would be a good thing.

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