Trying to Undestand my Sister

[StressedSister]

My 'D'Sis has a number of problems, and I'm trying to get my head around them. I can't personally do a lot to help as I'm on the other side of the world, but I'm the sounding board for another DSis who is shouldering a lot of the burden.

To set the scene and to try to avoid drip feeding:

DSis3 and her two young teenage children live in granny flat at the back of my DParents house. Both parents are very ill and require a lot of assistance. There is external assistance to help with personal care, the weekly shopping (no internet shopping available), house cleaning and there was - but no longer is- assistance with food (a type of meals on wheels delivered food but parents didn't like it so cancelled it).

DSis3 is technically their carer and gets paid a pension for this, which is higher than unemployment and means she doesn't need to look for work. In reality she does very little and DSis2 and DBro run around taking DPs to their many medical appointments, help with batch cooking on weekends, garden maintenance, etc. DSis might occasionally do a trip to the shops for them, and the odd trip to a medical appointment. DSis2 and DBro have to take holiday leave to do this (paid leave for family care is limited and used up quickly) and frequently have to go to unpaid leave as leave gets all used up.

For the last few years we have believed that DSis3 was an alcoholic. She is usually intoxicated, falls asleep early in the evening and her 2 DC are left to their own devices, and they have subsequently become rude, aggressive children, but they can be very nice when they want to be.

DSis3 checked herself into the hospital claiming to be suffering a breakdown a few weeks ago, after going missing for a couple of days and abandoning her two children.

DSis2 has taken the children in because of problems between DBro and the children (they have been physically and verbally aggressive to his young daughters).

The social worker and psychiatrist at the mental health unit had a family meeting with DSis2 and DBro without DSis3 present, and were told the following. DSis 3 is not alcoholic dependent, but an alcohol abuser (IMO this is still an alcoholic) - there were no withdrawal symptoms at all in the time she was in the unit. Her perception of the responsibilities placed upon her and the reality of them is extremely different, the way she talks about everything she does and what she actually does bear no resemblance to each other. She did not suffer a break down, and has no mental health problems.

She is now back home, has not asked DSis2 about her DC. Telling everyone else that DSis2 snatched her children from her, seems to have conveniently forgotten the fact that she abandoned them. She has always had a deep hatred of DSis2 which is rather ironic as she is the one who has done the most for her.

She is in masses of debt on her credit card, has quit her part time banking job and doing a course which will get her into a very part time carer/nurse type role within a few months supposedly.

It's everyone else's fault that she has never finished any of the courses she started because we all nagged at her (many, many courses). She feels inadequate because the other girls in the family have all done degrees (off our own back, part time, while working might I add!!!)

So where to now???!!!

How can she not have a mental health problem? Is she just a self centred B** who doesn't give a damn about anyone else????

To lay my cards on the table I have been saying for many years that we need to have the children taken away from her, but noone else in the family agreed with me (am the youngest, and my opinion frequently dismissed as though I was still an annoying teenager). It will take a lot of work, but I feel as though the children are with someone else just in time, and still have the ability with a lot of care and attention to lose the aggression and downright nastiness they sometimes display. They can be the most caring and loving of children, were wonderful with my 2 DSs whenever we visited.

A lot more I could include (such as a husband/father who abandoned DSis3 and her DC), but this is long enough I think.

She may not be displaying any one particular psychological condition but she certainly sounds like she has problems coping with life in general. Alcohol abuse in the form of binge drinking isn't alcoholism btw, more usually a response to depression, stress, boredom, loneliness that kind of thing. Being on the doorstep of your elderly parents doesn't mean she's equipped to look after any of them - she may even feel trapped. I don't think campaigning to have her children taken away could do a lot for her self-esteem and I think you are being far too judgemental. If her children are capable of being caring and loving, she can't have done too bad a job. Lots of outwardly wonderful parents end up with surly teenagers.

My cod analysis is that your sister is depressed (or at least in a depressive episode) and in need of TLC, practical support and probably some medical help in order to cope better.

I would have thought she was depressed, but the evaluation also concluded that she wasn't depressed. Or perhaps there's a clinical level of depression that they measure? It's part of what I just don't get!!!!

The reason why I've been saying the children needed to be taken away from her (and at the time I wasn't saying it as a permanent feature, more a get them away from her and get her in rehab, then family counselling for them all) is because it is solely because of them that my DMum let her live in the granny flat - she had to live there as she was spending too much money on alcohol to afford her own rent. I only told DSis2 and DM, by the way, didn't broadcast it wide and loud. I couldn't do anything from here, only DSis2 and DM were able to attempt to do something and I was hoping to prompt some sort of action .

The childen were capable of bouts of niceness, but it seemed to that that was a part of their personality that they were losing, the bouts of niceness were getting less and less frequent. They weren't being surly, they were physically and emotionally bullying their cousins, swearing at my DM, talking to all of their aunts and uncles as though they were complete and utter cap - parroting her words and phases. I probably was being too harsh, but nobody wanted to do anything and the poor children were constantly fighting with her, and in tears. She had persuaded them that they were incapable of doing well at school because they had learning difficulties, whereas their only difficulty was having the environment in which to actually do some homework, get enough sleep to cope with school the next day, and to be in a positive frame of mind. I figured if we could get the children away from her temporarily we could get her to deal with (what I thought was at the time) her alcoholism.

I pointed out to DM that by letting her live in the granny flat at next to nothing was enabling this behaviour, instead of making her face her issues.

TBH she had these problems well before she moved into the granny flat, but living on my parents' door step has made them far, far worse. My DM is not the easiest of people (understatement of the year...!!). I warned them all that it was a bad, bad move for her to live on their door step. DM is very interfering and judgmental, and I've told her that she needs to keep out of the granny flat and give DSis3 space and privacy.

In my phone conversations to her she would tell me everything that was going on in her life, how wonderful some things were, how difficult other things were, how much work she had to do, etc. I never confronted her on it because it was a bit pointless from so far away, but very little of what she said to me was based on reality. I encouraged her to get counselling, citing the trauma of being abandoned by her ExH and how badly he had acted toward her and the children, and she claims she was going, and the psych and social worker are trying to establish whether she did actually go to any therapy or whether it was just lies.

She was never asked to look after my parents, she wanted the carer payments and asked to be put down as carer. She was told that if she wanted to be paid as carer then she needed to do some care and she agreed - but she has done precious little caring. My parent's situation has been going on for far longer than she has been even in the same city.

Do people actually just decide they don't want the responsibility of things anymore through sheer selfishness? I guess they do, her ExH is one - walked out on them all, moved to a different city, then abroad, and provides no contact details. He contacts the DC when he wants to talk to them, which is only a couple of times a year. I know this is just another thing she has had to deal with, but she has now done exactly the same to her children!!!!

Clearly there must be some sort of psychological disorder, but what could it be and how can it be addressed?

"Do people actually just decide they don't want the responsibility of things anymore through sheer selfishness?"

Not often. With respect, you're looking at her from the perspective of someone who can cope with life, takes on part-time degree courses and is very 'together'. You'd never behave this way because you're a resilient type. Some people are simply not that strong to start with and the slightest set-back can leave them feeling so devastated and bewildered that they end up doing all kinds of weird stuff. Even the lying behaviour - pretending everything is OK or trying to look good in front of siblings - is kind of understandable in a delusional, defense mechanism sort of way.

I think, if she has been diagnosed as not being clinically depressed, she could still benefit from talking to her GP, getting a few physical checks. However, I suspect the real problem is that feels she has a crappy life with very little joy in it and doesn't know how to change it for the better.

I've believed for a long time that she's not as resilient as the rest of us. Have told DSis2 that when she said 'How could she have suffered so much when we all had the same upbringing? If anyone had the right to be so angry with DParents it would be you!' (I copped a fair bit of crap as a teen but suppressed it got over it and slowly rebuilt a relationship with DPs)

However, I suspect the real problem is that feels she has a crappy life with very little joy in it and doesn't know how to change it for the better.

I agree, but I don't think her children should suffer for that. Problem is, from what I can remember she has ALWAYS felt she has had a crappy life, and it seems to be getting crappier ever year that passes.

Before the evaluation I would have hand on heart said 'she suffers from depression, is an alcoholic, had a mental breakdown and needs support'. But apparently none of these things have happened.

How do we help her? CAN we help her?!

Her perception of the responsibilities placed upon her and the reality of them is extremely different, the way she talks about everything she does and what she actually does bear no resemblance to each other. She did not suffer a break down, and has no mental health problems.

She is now back home, has not asked DSis2 about her DC. Telling everyone else that DSis2 snatched her children from her, seems to have conveniently forgotten the fact that she abandoned them. She has always had a deep hatred of DSis2 which is rather ironic as she is the one who has done the most for her.

She is in masses of debt on her credit card, has quit her part time banking job and doing a course which will get her into a very part time carer/nurse type role within a few months supposedly.

It's everyone else's fault that she has never finished any of the courses she started because we all nagged at her (many, many courses). She feels inadequate because the other girls in the family have all done degrees (off our own back, part time, while working might I add!!!)

On the basis of this section of your post, my cod analysis would be a personality disorder in the cluster B group, known for shirking responsibility and assigning blame for their behaviour on anyone but themselves.

It can be said to boil down to "just a self centred B** who doesn't give a damn about anyone else", yes.

She sounds like my ex SIL. Drinking, smoking too weak to do anything much for herself, everyone else is to blame, takes it out on her poor DS. Sent carers away when they started calling in to cook lunch etc

GP says there is nothing wrong with her??!!! so won't help.

I think as you are so far away and DS and DB are actually having to deal with things they won't welcome your advice.

I think there is alot of help online for children of alcoholics now. Alateen is the site for children of alcoholics and I'm sure there are others so make sure the children know about this.

JosieZ -I'm DSis2's download person, and she has been ringing me up and off loading onto me and asking my opinion. She is understandably very upset and under a great deal of stress. She is as puzzled as I am, but I don't want her to talk to DSis3 in a way that make things worse, although I'm not sure how they could be worse at the moment! DSis3 is threatening to sue her for 'snatching her DC'! .

DSis 1 and I are supporting DSis2 financially with the extra costs of having the DC. DSis 1's involvement is problematic at best, bloody annoying at worst and both DSis2 and DBro are barely speaking to her at the moment.

Jeez, reading all this back, we are a dysfunctional lot, aren't we??!!!

Thanks for the Alateen link, they are in Oz as well so that's helpful.

HotDAMNlifeisgood - thank you for that. Have just looked up Clustergroup B personality disorders and she fits this one soooo well!

"Borderline personality disorder. Persons with this disorder present instability in their perceptions of themselves, and have difficulty maintaining stable relationships. Moods may also be inconsistent, but never neutral - their sense of reality is always seen in "black and white." Persons with borderline personality disorder often feel as though they lacked a certain level of nurturing while growing up and, as a result, incessantly seek a higher level of caretaking from others as adults. This may be achieved through manipulation of others, leaving them often feeling empty, angry, and abandoned, which may lead to desperate and impulsive behavior."

She truly feels she was abused by our parents while growing up, even though she can't give any specific examples. I specifically remember a couple of incidents as a child where she was so pissed off at being told off and punished that she wanted to report our parents to the police and claim that they had abused her, even threatening to break her own arm to make it believable .

She eloped, to the man who subsequently walked out on her. She is a very intense personality, throws herself full on into her all relationships, then goes completely the opposite way when it's not reciprocated to the extent that she feels it should be.

Poor Dsis2, what a mess. All she can do is look after herself first and help the DCs second. My ex SIL is v manipulative, says things to her DS like, I'll be gone soon so then you won't have to bother with me, so he finds it hard to stand up to her. Think she is borderline personality disorder too.

In all honesty I don't think there is anything you can do except contact SS and present your concerns about the chaotic childhood the children are having because of all this. I don't think they will do much though

Just thought I would update, even though its not a very nice update, as I know I quite often like to know what has happened on other threads.

DNiece and DNephew moved back in with DSis3. DNiece did not want to, but she behaved so badly at DSis2's house that DSis2 couldn't cope with them anymore. DNiece's behaviour mimics DSis3' in many ways now, and the travel was taking it's toll on DSis2

DNiece and DSis3 had screaming arguments and everytime they did DSis3 would go and get drunk. DNephew is falling to pieces.

DSis3 is ignoring everyone, locking herself away in the granny flat whenever anyone visits our DParents. Everything is DNiece's fault, or our fault, or anyone else's fault except hers. DNephew and DNiece have pretty much been ripped apart from each other, and now can't even talk to each other because of the anger that has been drilled into them.

DSis2 is about to move house, larger and closer to everyone. She has told me that she will take DNephew back once she moves, but can't cope with DNiece. DNiece has moved in with 'someone' from their church, but there seems to have been a round of fibs told to everyone about who and for how long. DSis1 is considering taking her in - she has a DD the same age, but that can't be until the end of the year, and it will be at the opposite end of Australia. (DNiece is 16, so not a heck of a lot that can be done now).

Apparently when DSis3 was confronted with what she was doing to sort out her life she said she would get her own place when DMum and DDad died and she inherited her share of their estate - and she said this to DMum!!!!!!!!! DMum veers between being incensed to being in despair at her actions and what she says.

Oh and ExBIL, their 'D'Dad has done absolutely nothing even though he apparently knows what's going on.

I warned them that sending them back to DSis3's was a recipe for disaster but they wouldn't listen to me - they felt that DNiece had to be back there in order to work through her relationship with DSis3. (Think a whole lot of Evangelical Christian morality about respecting parents, etc!)

I'm completely lost as to what should happen, and am just trying to stay the download person. It's such an awful situation.