What is the difference between forgiveness and facing the truth?

[marykat2004]

Sometimes I am not great with words but I will try...

I have been reading a thread about a cheating husband. It kind of applies to alcoholics as well. Does any one agree? The lying. The broken promises.

I found out that DH has been secretly drinking when DD and I have been out of town for about 6 months. Some of you have read my other posts. The reason I'm starting a new post is to do with forgiveness and truth.

Am I being too harsh? Should I feel like because DH has had 3 weeks of alcohol counseling, that he can be trusted with his child? Should I forgive and forget that 3 weeks ago I found him drunk with his child at home?

It's about perception isn't it? The cheating husband who turns the blame to his wife for accusing him. Being lied to again and again is just that, isn't it? When do you learn to trust again? Do you ever? The men would think we are bad because we don't trust them, don't forgive them. BUt when I read these posts about cheating, looking from the outside, I can't believe these men make out that they are facing false allegations when everything points to truth. How do you know a man will stop cheating? Or drinking? It's what men do. Should we expect them to stop?

I want to go out and do things. I can't change myself to being a person who likes to sit around at home. I'm making weekend plans, all including my DD of course, because I can't leave her with her father. I guess DD and I should be staying home and policing DH, staying home and trying to ... trying to what? Should we suffer even more by staying at home when DD and I want to go out and do things?

I don't think there is any chance of "dad time" for the forseeable future. Why do I still struggle with my anger about it?

He was lonely. So he befriended the junkie next door. Or ex-junkie but drinker-of-strong lager as many ex-junkies are.

So out of the 6+ billion people in the world, the one person he chose as a friend was a heavy drinker with addiction problems. Well that was bound to end well, wasn't it?

My ex is an alcoholic. We split six years ago. For the first four or five of those years our DCs didn't stay overnight with my ex at all as it wasn't safe. A few hours after school a couple of times a week, provided my ex passed an independently-administered breathalyser test first, was as good as it got.

All that came about because my ex had a habit of getting absolutely shit-faced when the children were there and falling unconscious as a result. Social Services got involved.

I know how much of a trial your life undoubtedly is right now. I'm not belittling that. I remember the feelings of betrayal and despair. But please believe me, sitting in a Social Services case conference with a dozen child protection experts plus the head teacher of your childrens' school round the table, deciding whether your children should end up on the At-Risk register is worse.

I'm not saying you should leave him right now. What I do think you should be clear on is what your "line in the sand" is. How bad would things need to get before you decide that you have to walk away for the safety of both your daughter and you?

Oh he knows that if he were drinking at all right now that would be the end. That much is clear. I think he knows if he drinks AT ALL then it's curtains. But he hasn't really been left alone.

I have heard so many stories of alcoholic parents, on the radio, the internet, all over the place, people I know, etc. DH knows that that won't happen. I will leave if he drinks again.

I just feel trapped though. I feel like any possibility of a normal life is gone. I feel like I was made a fool of to have a day out on my own and I will pay for that for the rest of my life.

Then I also question why I so desperately needed a "day out on my own", if I was happy would I need that? In past generations women simply raised the kids and got on with it. They didn't "need time to myself". And no one ever had just one child. More like 3, 4 or even 6 children. No one complained back then. I need to focus on my child and not on myself.

Sorry I'm waffling. Going to bed now. thanks for chatting.

Marykat, you are not unreasonable to want a bit of time away from the responsibility of looking after your child all the time. In past generations, many women had more children, who would then look after their younger siblings, giving them a bit of a break. They also would have spent most of their waking hours doing stuff, cleaning, baking, working, making clothes - or working. But they would also have had time for the occasional feet up, have a cup of tea.

A whole day might be seen as a bit indulgent, but if you needed it, you needed it. Things have changed a lot since previous generations - we're more used to leisure time now and so miss it when we don't have it. You can't really miss what you've never had.

I'm so sorry marykat. But in a million years I would never befriend a known drinker 'because I was lonely'. (I'm not saying that makes me better than your DH, not at all - but I am very aware of how fragile my sobriety could be if tested like that).

He chose to befriend this person because he/she was a drinker. Because it would lead to drinking. He knew this would happen.

Does he go to AA? (I don't, as it happens, but I would if I were at all tempted to drink). It sounds as if he absolutely needs that long term support, and frankly that constant reminder that the addiction never goes away.

And it very much sounds as well that you need some support from Al-Anon. They will have seen this before, and they will know far more truly than we do that this is not your fault for going away. It is 100% his fault. If he isn't saying this to you, he is betraying your faith in him.

Posts on Mumsnet can be harsh. Most of the time, however, I find it's because people are blunt with the truth. And when a person is in denial about how little they can control the events in their life, and how much more they deserve from life, it makes deeply uncomfortable reading.

I just feel trapped though. I feel like any possibility of a normal life is gone. I feel like I was made a fool of to have a day out on my own and I will pay for that for the rest of my life.

You made your choices, the same as he did. And you are making them now, even whilst it feels like you have no choice. You deserve better than this.

Hi OP,

Youhave had some excellent advice here from Tripbot and Snorbs.

I think you should think about trying Al-Anon. You are being really hard on yourself, this is not a situation of your making. If an alcoholic wants to drink, they will drink, nothing you do or don't do will change it.

Don't feel guilty about wanting child free time, and don't compare yourself with some unrealistic image of other, apparently perfect mothers from times past. It's unlikely to be true.

Sorry I meant Tribpot

I feel like I was made a fool of to have a day out on my own and I will pay for that for the rest of my life.

His decision to drink has got nothing to do with you. It's not personal against you. He didn't do it to take the piss out of you. He did it because he flat-out wanted to have a drink and he managed to persuade himself that it would be ok. That's his responsibility.

You are not bad for wanting a bit of time to yourself. You're right that in past generations women would just get on with it. That's because they knew that if they complained they'd likely get a smack round the mouth. They had loads of children because they didn't have any contraception and were in no position to say "no" when their husbands wanted sex. And they couldn't get divorced so they were completely and totally trapped. They had to just get on with it because there was nothing else they could realistically do.

Luckily our society has moved on somewhat from those days. We recognise the importance of mental health and we appreciate that someone is more than just what she does. Having a bit of time away from your DCs children is a good thing; it allows you to recharge your batteries and it encourages your DCs towards independence. I love my DCs to bits but I relish the chance to have a few hours break and just do something for me.

You desparately needed a day out on your own.Course you did.Dont know anybody who would say you didnt.
Dont feel guilty for that.
And dont feel a fool,you absolutely were not.

Do you want to say why you will pay for it for the rest of your life.Maybe it is just me,but I dont understand what you are meaning by that.Dont say,if you dont want to.

.Can the 3 of you go out together say to a park,and you could be 1 side,sort of by yourself,and he is the other side where you can keep an eye on things?Would that work at all.Same as in library,him and DD 1 side you the other.Cinema etc?Just a thought.

mary, my heart goes out to you.

I am an alcoholic. I have been sober for 7 years (approx from when I became pregnanct with ds1).

It is impossible to understand an 'addicts' brain - if you aren't one.
By gaining support and understanding through al-anon can help immensely.

The stereo-type alcoholic is the homeless drunk on the street
where alcohol had robbed them of everything.
Alcoholism is progressive in that every person with a drinking problem could get there if they don't take action
They have to hit their personal rock bottom to want ask and get help.

Alcoholism - is also not the disease, it is the symptom. A 'user' gets drunk to mask or deals with more deeper issues.
Once free of alcohol - they can then attempt to address these.
But when you are actively 'using' every decision you make with regard to your addiction.

I will also add that relapse is common. But not a failure, although alot of 'alcoholics' struggle with this concept - as they are already carrying a deep shame for being al alkie in the first place.

An alcoholic who is committed to leading a fulfilling sober life has many resources too, support groups, online forums, drugs to help with craving etc.

I am very proud of my seven years, and although I've had difficulties and problems - life is very much brighter. There is always hope.

I hope my experience has helped with understanding, PM me if you would like
Regards xx

Bobits

Thanks, all.

By "pay for my day out for the rest of my life" I just meant the foreseeable future. I meant that the lesson I learned from that day was that I can not relax, not until my child is old enough to take care of herself. I feel bitter and broken. BUt that I can not blame anyone else for. I have to change the way I think, the way I feel, not be so angry all the time.

Yeah I will look for alanon, does anyone have the online support group link? I find the physical meetings too depressing. I've been to a couple. Some of the worst things ever, so much despair all in one room. So many people beating their heads against brick walls. Makes you see why the US brought in Prohibition. Of course it didn't work, but you can see why they tried.

My dad is an alcoholic and it has affected my entire life and relationships etc. I am sorry to be so blunt but your child will be as affected (if not more) by this as you are. You cannot and should not be policing your husband. It will only be controlled by him and his willingness/willpower/desire to stop.

I'll find you the Al-Anon link...

Can't find online support but here is main site: www.al-anonuk.org.uk/

try www.intherooms.com too

The "Friends and Family of Alcoholics" section of Sober Recovery is very good.

I'm just wondering if you have read these 2 books?

Co-dependent No More by Melody Beattie is aimed at spouses of people with addiction esp alcoholism

And this other one which I saw today called Adult Children of Alcoholics, can't remember the author but describes effects on children who have grown up with an alcoholic parent/s

My parents were children of alcoholics. My paternal grandfather died of cirrhosis of the liver. And my mum moved 17 times while growing up because her father couldn't hold down a job and kept losing houses - I think - to gambling. She won't actually say an unkind word about her parents but I know they spent a lot of time at the racetrack.

So I have known 2 adult children of alcoholics pretty well.

I've just ordered a book on anger management because the library didn't have it but I'll look for those, too.

(ps neither of my parents drank anywhere near as much as their parents though I guess you could say they were/are alcoholics as well. They never lost a job or a house to it, and my father's death was not related to drinking.)

I also recommend the books Spree mentioned, Mary.

Wrt to your self-justification for feeling you aren't allowed time off: my mother was one of the women you refer to, for the reasons Snorbs described. She got so frustrated at times, she would take a stack of old crockery down the garden to smash against the wall. Soon after, one of my grandparents would come and take us for a sleepover.
No woman is superhuman, nor ever was.