do you ever feel like you have outgrown a relationship?

[Iforgotmyusername]

I do not know what to do and do not know if what I feel is normal.I have been with oh for nearly 20 years, 4 children (7 - 12).
We lived miles apart when we met, I ended up giving up my career so that we could live together. I tried various other jobs but ended up giving up work when we had kids as oh worked away a lot. He now has a different job and works from home.
About 3 years ago I went back to work in the higher education sector - what I do is very low paid and long hours but I really enjoy it. I have also started to do another degree.
At the moment the combination of degree and work (trying to claw way back up career ladder) mean that I am working/studying long hours. oh is now at the relax and enjoy work stage - ie he has proved himself, got promoted, can relax more.
We now do not seem to get on at all and haven't since I went back to work. oh does help around the house/with childcare but seems to resent it. I have tried to explain that I was on my own with the kids for years whilst he got to where he wanted to be career-wise but he cannot seem to see it like that (cannot see that being away with work all week is the same as being at home working/studying all week). I also find that I want to talk about things (politics, economics, etc) while he wants to watch TV or gossip about the neighbours. He does not go out or socialise at all and we have no joint friends that we can spend time with. I also work primarily from home and feel very isolated. I cannot afford to leave him and I think that he would try to take the children if I did.
Am not sure what to do - I just feel that I have moved on from where I was mentally when I met him whilst he has stayed put/regressed - he has started to read the Daily Mail and seems to be becoming less and less tolerant whereas I seem to be moving the other way.
I just so want someone to talk to and he will not talk to me.

I think this happens to many couples. Lots of men seem to get to a stage where they want an easy life and their partner after giving up career all of a sudden wants to progress and develop.

There is no easy solution but if you don't talk to him you will never resolve it.

Bringing up 4 kids with a partner is hard enough, without one is harder still. Moving on would not be easy with 4 kids of that age.

I know that moving on would not be easy - that is why I haven't :)
Part of the problem is that we can live on his salary - he is successful - but I think that he sees being successful as meaning that he (and the children) get to be looked after by me. He cannot understand why I want to work - he (and most other people if I am honest) seem to think that I ought to be happy as I have a nice house, reasonable income, beautiful children etc and no need to work. If I want to get anywhere workwise then I will need to work hard, make sacrifices etc and he cannot see why I want to do this and certainly cannot see why he should make sacrifices to enable me to climb a career ladder that we do not (financially) need me to climb.

I cannot talk to him - he just agrees with me, sits back to watch the TV and nothing changes (ie he still gets cross because I am "working too much"). I don't think that he has the insight to realise that he feels the way he does.

mmm, I've got one of those DHs. Seems quite content to stay in the relationship because it's easier than starting afresh.

I think you are being unreasonable, ungrateful and condescending. You take all, give little and don't seem very much interested in your DC, who are still very young.

Your ego clearly comes before your family, but I honestly don't see why you feel yourself to be so superior to him. Gosh, he reads the DM, shock, horror! And doesn't appreciate all your intellectual observations about politics etc. You sound like a self opinionated bore, TBH.

I think you must follow your heart, and let him follow you for a change.

Before you were a wife and mother, you were a woman, and when / if they all leave, that is what you will be again.

Let him get used to helping out. Or spend his money on help and try not to lose respect for him!! ;)

Get your career and your life. Go to parties where you waft wine around and discuss high level theories. Enjoy it!

You may find that the loftiness boils back down to the family unit and happiness in small thing, but you deserve the ride and the trip and to spread your wings after so many years.

And don't listen to anyone who doesn't support you. Just don't talk to them about it, or talk in the present tense 'Oh I have an exam, maybe another day?' or 'Oh I have a new job now yes, so how have you been???' etc. Don't give a foothold to let naysayers in.

Wildswans I think she sounds like a bird that needs to spread her wings, as it is natural to her. And if you are offended by the DM comment, perhaps you read it, and perhaps you ought not to!!!

Why should your Dh not support you wanting to better yourself YOU supported him you having been raising your children and looking after the home. Its double standards when men expect to get all the support they need but don't do anything to help their dw when they want to develope themselves.
There is nothing wrong with wanting more than being just a Mother and wife (this might be something others want and that's their choice i am not saying that's wrong either). So keep going and be proud of yourself your dc will look up to their dm and be proud...

Also if you separated at the most he would get 50% residency, you have been their primary carer for years. 50% might be good for you as it would give you time to get on with your studies/work etc.

To be honest, this sounds like an almost textbook situation to go and see a marriage guidance counsellor together. I can totally imagine and sympathise with your position, but I can also imagine a post that your DH might write that I'd really sympathise with too.

Maybe you need to both give compromise more of a go - eg him being a bit more supportive of your career and interests and you making sure you find time for your family despite your new commitments. Maybe with work there is still a middle ground.

It might be the case that your relationship is over, but if that was me I'd need to really know I'd tried before leaving with four kids. Far better tackle this now than your or his resentment build up into an affair or something else really nasty.

All the best.

wildswans "I think you are being unreasonable, ungrateful and condescending. You take all, give little and don't seem very much interested in your DC, who are still very young"

why do you think this? I've said that I gave up my career for oh - that is a big deal for me. The DM comment was linked to his lack of tolerance, not its tabloid nature.

The point is that I do not want to make "intellectual observations" as you put it. I want an intellectually stimulating conversation occasionally - I'm not that bothered what it is about - I just want to feel that I am learning something/developing as a person rather than just vegetating away.

I am interested in my children but it is not enough. It is not the be all and end all for me.

Would you expect a man to be happy just looking after the children and doing housework? (I have suggested to oh that we swap but no way will he contemplate giving up his job.)

"Go to parties where you waft wine around and discuss high level theories."

the parties are out as I don't move in those circles but I do feel like I need to spread my wings and just see more of other people who talk about things other than children after being stuck in the house for 12 years going no where bar toddler groups.

I was a sahm for 10 years and I couldn't stick it anymore I needed some adult company too. Your dc won't always be young but will grow up and leave home and have lifes of their own. (which is only natural and what you want for them).My exh once told me that if I thought I could make as much money as him then go ahead and he would stay at home.

My exh once told me that if I thought I could make as much money as him then go ahead and he would stay at home.

oh does earn more than I could expect to but we could manage on what I could earn - he just doesn't want to.

I think that he may be passive aggressive - I'm not sure as there seem to be a lot of different definitions around. I cannot work out how much of his behaviour (if any) is deliberate. We talk about things like setting more boundaries for the children (bedtimes, meal times, helping round the house etc - the usual things) and he just agrees with everything that I say, agrees that they need specific bedtimes (the younger ones anyway) that the older ones should start to help tidy their stuff up a bit etc but then nothing changes. Because he just agrees I'm left with no where to go. There isn't any point in the discussion. I cannot work out whether the agreeing is a deliberate ploy or whether he genuinely means to agree

Unfortunately your H is one of those men who don't really consider women to be people. You're there to make his life easier, you are basically his inferior, something between servant and pet. That is how he sees you, that's why he is being so unhelpful. You're not supposed to have a life, least of all an intellctual life, your function is to perform housework and childcare... oh and be there for him to have sex on when he feels like it.

solidgoldbrass that does read a little true - the problem is that so many people think as wildswans does and this makes things really hard. I was once turned down for a job and, when I asked for feedback, was told (verbally - ie no proof) that they had discussed what would happen in the school holidays and decided that they couldn't risk employing me in case I didn't turn up
Equally talking to anyone in RL just gets the "what are you moaning about" reaction (and I get enough of that from oh).

I really feel sometimes that society still expects women to be happy and fulfilled by having a family and that anyone who isn't just needs prozac

I cannot afford to leave him and I think that he would try to take the children if I did.

OP this isn't just about you wanting to have your cake and eat it, as some are suggesting. This bit of your post worries me - it implies that DP has power that you are afraid of. This is NOT RIGHT.

People that have power usually use it well, use it to lead and to benefit everyone, but to make the mother of your children feel trapped like this is an abuse of power, and it is an act of abuse in my book, even if it appears to be passive and a perception on your part rather than a deliberate action.

Sometimes men behave like that because they are afraid they will lose you so they batten down all the hatches by making you feel incapable of leaving - this may be the case here, he may just be extremely insecure. But you have to ask yourself whether his motivation (insecure patheticness) justifies the action (trying to trap you). Essentially it is the work of an egotist, someone who is more concerned about themselves than you.

Try to ask yourself whether he loves you, or just wants to own you.

Try to ask yourself whether he loves you, or just wants to own you
I don't think that he wants to own me - I think that he loves who he thinks that I am or that I should me - but that this isn't who I am.

Then I would question why he can't see who you really are - my guess is he can see who you really are, but doesn't want you to be that way and he is doing something about it by forcing you to maintain the status quo.

Who cares what wildswans thinks, do you want to sit in all your life in case someone implies you have an ego or are selfish? I don't think so, and your husband certainly didn't when he went out to get his successful career either. And what's the point of all this sacrifice if all you do is sit home and not fulfil your potential, would you like your daughter or son to do that? Is that what all this investing in the next generation is for?

I would be having a frank conversation about this/ What's your DH worried about? Does he feel that you are out of step?

I don't think you have necessarily outgrown this relationship, it may well adjust and change along with you, but only if your husband can cope with the change. Perhaps you do come over a little like Rita in Educating Rita, only a hint perhaps but it may be putting your husband on the defensive. I would call him on this.

He doesn't want to have to do his own housework, or care for the children. He doesn't want to have to listen to his wife or consider her needs. This man considers women to be servants, and will insist that his wife is 'bad', 'selfish' or needs psychiatric help if she acts in a way that suggests she is rejecting her subordinate role. He needs a good kick in the cock.

You have every right to have intellectually stimulating conversations, wildswans post made me What a negative and offensive view.

As other posters have said, one day your children will leave home, and maybe one day your DH will decide he wants a divorce- there are no guarantees in life, who knows what could happen to any of us. I have had SUCH experience of exactly what you describe- a sluggishness in the relationship, which leads to all kinds of unfulfilled sniping and shitty behaviour, unproductive resentfulness. Depends on how long you can keep a lid on feeling so restless- and would you want a child of yours being held back by their 'dear' partner? A person who unreservedly loves you would be beyond thrilled to see you progress and grow, however you choose to do it. Life is unfortunately too short and unpredictable to be held back by negative people, especially those who are supposed to be part of caring family/team.

Ignore anyone in RL who insinuates you should be happy with what you have- you can be perfectly happy and still have ambitions for more, wtf is wrong with that?! You come across as intelligent, no need to overthink what other inconsequential blinkered people think of your situation- it's nowt to do with them

What's your DH worried about? Does he feel that you are out of step? no - he just doesn't want to have to do stuff around the house and will not get a cleaner as he says that he would feel uncomfortable with a stranger in the house. I'm not sure about the Educating Rita bit - I've tried just about every conversational topic that I can think of. He just appears uninterested in much beyond sport, his work (usually how rubbish everyone else is) and giving his opinion on immigration etc etc which he gets annoyed if I try to discuss (I suspect because his views don't stand up to scrutiny).

Twopeas I do intend to try to do more with my life but it is very hard which I think is why I feel so down. My current work is very insecure and likely to finish soon and there isn't much work around now. I'd need to move to stand much hope of getting anything and despite the fact that we have moved many times for ohs job (which is one reason why I was out of work for so long) and that he can now work from anywhere now, he is not keen on the idea of moving so that I can get a job.

Oh, so it's fine to drag you all over the country for his career, but not for yours. I feel angry on your behalf for that one.
There really is no such thing as equality in relationships, I don't care what anyone says.

Perhaps my first post was a bit harsh. My first impression was that you had many blessings in terms of your everyday life - your DC, generally supportive DH (even if he grumbles a bit), comfortable environment, and work/study which you enjoy. In a world where so many have so much less, this seemed to be ungrateful.

However, upon re-reading, you also come across as quite lonely.

I think you have to be realistic and realise that in a 20 year relationship with four young DC, the dynamics of your relationship will have changed a lot, and you may not be giving your relationship with your DH the priority it deserves. Yet, at the same time, you may be expecting too much of each other. Looking after the needs of four DC is a huge commitment, so it is not surprising if you and DC have gradually neglected your own and each other's needs over this period of time.

It seems to me as though you both need to socialise more - separately or together - and pursue some interests that are not work related. Is there something that you could do together (subject to childcare) - if there are more external stimuli, there will be more to talk about.

It sounds as though you are both quite bored at present and, with your DH, inertia has set in. He also probably senses that you have developed some contempt for him and are starting to regard him as intellectually inferior (Yes, definitely a touch of the Ritas!). It seems that he has supported you and the family for many years and continues to do so and also helps with domestic chores, so I can understand it if he feels unappreciated at present.

You also appear to resent him because you 'gave up' your career to live with him, as you lived a long way apart. You must see that this isn't fair. You could have carried on with your 'career' if you had chosen, as there were no DCs at that stage. You appear to be jealous of his success despite the fact that you and your DCs derive the benefit from it. Your work may be badly paid and insecure but you are fortunate that you enjoy it.

It is time to make some changes in how you live your lives - not necessarily anything too dramatic, small shifts can make a difference. Could you plan a monthly trip to the theatre, for example - something you could both look forward to - again, it would give you something to talk about.

Good luck!