ex trying to brainwash DD

[NicknameTaken]

DD is 4. I left her father when she was 18 months, due to his emotional abuse of me. A large part of the abuse was trying to drive a wedge between DD and me, eg. physically preventing me from holding her. There is a court order. I'm the resident parent, her father has quite a lot of contact (every second weekend, every Sunday night, during the day Mon and Fri).

Ex has a history of badmouthing me to DD. I didn't realize how bad it had got. Last night she made a little speech to my parents which was clearly put in her mouth by her father: "I love Daddy not Mummy. Mummy is bad. She doesn't look after me properly. She took me away from Daddy when I was in his arms. [I left with her without telling him to go to a refuge.] She doesn't feed me properly" [We had just come back from ballet and swimming and she had cleared a plateful of healthy food].

I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, because I don't want her to feel guilty and confused. My parents were very upset, but of course we all cuddled her and told her we all loved her, and I think she felt better afterwards.

I told ex this morning very calmly that it's not good to talk like this. He started saying that it's true and DD is afraid of me [total nonsense, we have a very happy and cuddly relationship].

I don't know if there is anything I can do about it. I don't think I can stop contact, as I don't believe that a court would see this as damaging enough to justify ending contact. Ex has also falsely claimed in the past that I've been frustrating contact, and he'd love the opportunity to try to get the court to change residence to him.

Ex seems intent on reliving out his own childhood, where his parents fought a very damaging battle over him. I genuinely think he doesn't see or doesn't care about harm to DD, once he "wins".

Sorry for essay. Advice welcome.

gosh that's hard. epec as she young.

mine are older 9 and 12 so when exp recently told them "your mother is abusive " we were able to discuss... and dd1 said "i dont like it when you talk about mummy like that" ...but it is crap...

ask gp for family therapist referal?
at least go to gp for a chat and record this and ask if they think it worth a referral to eg play therapist ? then at least it is on record.... and a good play therapist would help her resolve conflicting emeotions...

ask ex if he would accept going on a separated parents course /sesions?

like www.tccr.org.uk/parenting-together-service

Thanks, cestlavie, I was hoping you'd post as I know you've faced similar. That's a good idea about the GP. If she did see a play therapist and the therapist finds that this is a very damaging situation for her, I'd be on stronger ground if I had to go back to court to reduce contact.

Evidence is what you need.
Does she talk to him on phone? (record it if she does)
Write down incidents like the one above in a diary with her exact words and the situation and witnesses. (make sure you never ask her but only write spontaneous revelations)

GP referral to child psch or play therapy is a good idea but you need to find someone who is well versed in EA.

Ask playgroup/preschool to keep notes of anything "odd" she says too and if she goes to school next year alert them so they can keep written records a s well.

poor girl. Fortunately you sound great!!

Maybe look at the replies on this thread too www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1480108-Ex-being-scary-with-children if you haven't already!

Thanks, fool. I've emailed IDAS and my solicitor and will make an appointment with the GP. After a quick google, I don't think there are any play therapists in our area, but we'll see what the GP says.

GP booked.

I'd drop the contact whilst you're gathering the evidence... not wait for some court to decide. In a little girl's life, a lot of damage can be done the months it might take to reach an agreement. He has a history of abusive behaviour, she's saying things that no 4yo would come out with normally... just keep her at home and tell him why.

Part of me really wants to do that, but I'm afraid it might backfire. I'll see what my solicitor advises.

It's clear your ex doesn't want a daughter, he just wants something to upset you with. He can't punish you in person any more so he does it second-hand through a child. Frankly, I'm amazed that he has the access he does, given his history. If you thought she was being mistreated physically or that she was unsafe in his care, you wouldn't think twice about cutting off the contact. Mental abuse, as you are well aware, is far more pervasive... and you're her mother, you're meant to protect her from harm. Can't see how that would backfire.

Yes, OP I'd remove her too.

My sisters ex was like this, he even made their 5 year old help him put nails in my sisters tyres

This is far to damaging to the child in the long run, sisters boy has many emotional problems still to this day (he's 24 now).

"too"

there is a court order and you have to be prepred to stand up and say you had "reasonable excuse" to cut or limit contact. if he takes it back to court .
i would say you do have "reasonable excuse" ; you know you do - but solicitor might advise against unless firm evidence.

however by being proactive, reporting to gp etc you are showing you taking what she says seriously and acting to protect her - just be careful to keep good records as was suggested.

also remember that even if he denies what he says and suggests she misinterpeted it doesnt matter - what she has understood from him is what she said.

if he didnt make himself clear is his problem. anyway he told you that dd is scared of you??

and dont discuss verbally with him - put facts in writing /email ?

i went through this with my dd she was older with sn, i phoned social services and they came in and put a stop to the contact, so it wouldn't backfire if you took this action, you would be seen as protecting your dd from abuse, i understand ppl not wanting them involved but they do have a right to stop contact and protect you dd, this takes withdrawing contact out of your hands iyswim

Okay, will try social services as well. Yes, I agree email is better than talking. He has a history of committing long rants about my evilness to email, which may be helpful.

Thanks for all the comments.

Have just called SS, who referred me back to my solicitor.

yes Ss will jsut send you back to sol - they dont like to get involved unless obvious immediate danger or report of physical assault

just keep record of the calls you ahve made and what was said

I was once your daughter and i would urge you to stop contact immediateley , he is emotionally abusing your daughter and the effects of this can last a life time karenwoodall.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/understanding-parental-alienation-part-one/

My dad did this to me through out my childhood and it severeley affected my relationship with my mum and my siblings . It continues to affect me today as it was early training in terms of accepting emotional abuse and manipulation . I use to wish that my mum would intervene and stop me from going , but i think she thought she was doing the right thing . She really wasnt .

I'm so sorry for those of you who suffered this in your childhood.

I've taken advice from IDAS and NSPCC and the first thing I'm going to do is try a solicitor's letter telling him to stop this behaviour.

To those urging me to stop contact immediately - I really am taking it seriously, but the advice I've been given is that if I stop contact and can't convince the court I had good reason, in a worst-case scenario he could end up being made the residential parent. It's perhaps not highly likely, but get the wrong judge, and the risk is there. Any changes I make have to be carefully thought through, justified and legally correct. I have to get it right for DD's sake.

Nickname - I'm absolutely jaw droppingly astonished that any court in the land would do this but sadly I'm not surprised. I also appreciate that if there is a smidgeon of a chance sudden (very right) actions could award your bastard ex being given custody, feel you are doing the right thing.

Thanks, Miss. Very interesting link, outlaw. To the best of my knowledge, parental alienation is not really recognised in UK courts. I'm just thankful that I have the majority of the care, so I have the chance to counteract the negative messages as best I can.

There is a good book called Divorce Poisen that is well worth a read , there are things to say to a child that is expressing dislike of a parent and ignoring it or playing it down is playing into exes hands . Most of us dont want to join in the mudslinging as kids in these scenarios have enough to deal with , but to not defend yourself from allegations or unpleasant remarks will end badly .

I kept hold of my kids ( emotionally speaking ) by the skin of my teeth and with the help of a good counseller .

Thanks, will take a look at that book.

I've ordered the book from Amazon.

nickname my DP has been subject to badmouthing by his ex to their DCs - it has been a pretty horrendous three years and there is no end in sight.

As well as Divorce Poison, I recommend Dr Richard Warshaks DVD - Welcome Back Pluto. It has sections for both parents and It is something you can watch with your DD (I recommend you watch it alone first as it is very emotive) and will help you both come to terms with what is happening.
If you can, I would also send a copy to your ex - even if he is incredibly hostile. DPs ex was looking for any evidence she could find that DP is a crap dad, so we think she watched the DVD in the hope that it would give her more to support her.

Thanks for the suggestion - will take a look.

I received a very helpful response from my solicitor - she thinks we should take a firm line and the courts would take a dim view of his behaviour. So will go ahead with the letter next week and we shall see.

Probably won't be online till Monday. Thanks to all for your thoughts.