MIL issues - how can I best handle this?

[reastie]

Have been having ongoing MIL issues for many months now. My problem isn't just with MIL herself though, it's that DH is oblivious to MILS behaviour and is in denial there are any problems.

MIL is a compulsive liar. She fibs about little things and I don't think she realises she does it, but she also lies to get what she wants. She also manipulates things. She is extremely OTT and quite toxic in her manner (in that she can't sit still and must always be the centre of attention and appear such a martyr by always taking the hardest road in life then expecting lots of attention for it. Whenever I see her I find my self very manic in my behaviour when she is gone and I feel extremely jittery for the rest of the day and find it very hard to come down from this and so I find I'm affected negatively when I see her) and I have witnessed her encouraging her other DGC to lie to their parents. We have also had alot of problems (although DH being the man he is is oblivious to this too) especially when DD was tiny about her over stimulating DD, although this is marginally easier to deal with now she's 1. It's not just me who feels this way, SIL has pretty much cut off all ties with her and refuses to go to most family occasions as she finds herself jittery and manic from MILs behaviour too. BIL (MILs DS) can see what MIL is like and is respectful for SILs opinion and understands where she is coming from.

My problem isn't just with the ongoing stress of having to deal with this but also with DH and how I can get him to understand how I feel and accept his DMs behaviour. I realise it must be incredibly difficult for him and I do feel sorry for him, but I've tried to put on a happy face and I can't keep going on like this and the emotional difficulty of the manic anxiety I feel after I see her is really affecting me to the point where I cry myself to sleep. DH knows how I feel and why I feel like I do but thinks I'm making a big deal of not very much and it's all my issue not his or MILs. MIL does alot of behind the scenes manipulating of him so whatever I say or do I know she will always win and she will always have DH in the palm of her hand. No matter what tact I have tried coming to him from it always comes off that she's the wonderful mother and I'm the evil wife. I realise this may just be as he will never see what she is really like.

This is a big part of our marriage and a major reason for our disagreements. I dont' want to never see PIL or never let DD see PIL (well, I accept that this is completely unreasonable and that they are part of my life like it or not) but I don't want to see them all the time and I don't want to be manipulated into seeing them by MIL (she is very good at this and is amazing at the ways she manages to ruin our week ends yet DH can't see any of it). I want DH to understand how I feel and the effect it has on me and respect this and actually say no to his parents sometimes and ultimately respect and be a partner to me and not just go along with his mother all the time. I really do find myself quite depressed about my situ and am still recovering from pnd.

What I really need is some advice how to deal with MIL but also how can I get DH to see this is not going to get better and he needs to see how much this affects me. Also if I'm being very unreasonable please feel free to (gently) tell me.

I find the best cure for a toxic mother-in-law is divorce.

curiosty I'm unsure whether to , , or

Would he listen to his brother?

If your SIL has the same issues and her DH realises why, then may be he can have a quiet word with him sometime and point out that it can't all be the DIL's issues.

I've tried that sushi and it did help a little but I wonder if BIL was quite, erm, restrained in the chat so it hasn't really made much difference.

Perhaps you could ask BIL to have another go and not pull his punches?

You could try Relate with your dh, as sometimes a third party can get something across better.

I honestly don't think relate would work as dh wouldn't go for it.

I could ask bil to have another chat if it would help. I do wonder if BIL/SIL are too nice/diplomatic for their own good and he wouldn't make it obvious enough for DH. Also, DH thinks that my feelings to MIL are all due to SIL somehow warping me with her issues she has had. This is completely untrue and the truth is I was actually going mad and making myself ill about being so stressed with MIL and thinking it was all in my imagination and so I rung up SIL to see if she felt similarly which is how I found out she too had the same problems. MIL made out SIL never went to family occasions due to SIL having mental issues and that she was odd

I think your major chance is to go and lobby your BIL/SIL. Get SIL to boot her H up the behind to make it crystal clear that this is NOT going to be constructive going forward.

Will have to do that then and live in hope it helps. From the MIL point of view - should I be the model wife and go along with everything without question or should I dig my foot in and refuse things?

You need to get BIL to have another word without holding back, perhaps also have a word with SIL to get her to tell him he needs to be honest or his DB's marriage might be in trouble.

Then make it clear to DH that it is your MIL's issue, not yours, he either accepts his mother is lying or his DW and DB and SIL are.

oh and refuse things. Really, if you said "no, I'm not going" to DH, what would he do? If he pushed you into a corner so you made him make a choice, that's not in his best interests.

I have asked SIL about BIL speaking to DH via email so see what comes out of that. If I said no I'm not going DH would just take DD without me and think nothing of it. If I would say I wanted to spend family time together not on my own/with PIL I think DH would prob just still take DD on his own or else grudgingly cancel but make me feel really bad like I was in the wrong.

FWIW MIL looks after DD for a few hours a week when I work. I'm not happy about it but there are no other options than to give up work (which I have toyed with due to this). I haven't and at this point won't allow MIL and FIL to take DD out on their own as I don't want to feel pushed into them taking DD when I'm not happy with it. DH just came home and said next week when MIL looks after DD FIL has taken the day off work is it OK if he comes to look after DD too. I know I will look like a completely selfish person if I say no but I feel really that he has taken the day off without checking with me to look after DD when I would never agree to them having her on her own at any other time. I can't say no though can I?!

What difference does it make if your FIL has taken the day off. I don't even see why your DH had to ask if he could come. They obviously love your DD, I don't think you realise how lucky you are to have someone take your child. The more you think about what is going to happen when you see her the worse it will be. Work out possible scenarios in your head about what she could say or do and then work out assertive (not rude) answers or solutions. Could you still be recovering from PND as that could cloud your judgement. Sorry if this sounds a bit snippy but it is not supposed to be.

it's very hard to see from your post what it is that is so very awful, i've just got a vague gist, but that could be you could be blowing things (lying, perceived 'manipulation') out of proportion because, simply put, you don't like her and resent a bit that she's involved in your childcare

like the last poster, i don't mean to be snippy. my mother in law is tricky and hard to like, but on a bad day i can really conflate her behaviour into something nefarious when in reality she's simply hectic, a bit jealous, and does things differently to me.

i for one don't quite know what 'overstimulating' a small baby really is and if you're on the precious side, i guess you could 'see' patterns and blame it on the behaviour that someone who you don't like (again, i'm sometimes guilty of this!) confirmation bias is a human trait.

i'm one for keeping things going with difficult relatives (unless they are horrendous) as all but my mother are dead on my side so i have that perspective. and ultimately, if she were that bad you wouldn't allow her to care for her.

it does sound controlling that although you let them look after your dd you wont let them take her out? what aren't you 'happy' about?

anyway, i'm sorry it causes you pain. i've been there.

I don't know, I understand where you're coming from....I know I am lucky to have GPs that care. oct I had no major issues with MIL pre DD so it's not a personal dislike. By overstimulating a baby I mean playing with it manically and in your facey non stop for long periods of time despite the baby clearly not wanting this. She came over in the evening and I said DD was going to sleep but would say a quick quiet hello before bed yet she wouldn't stop jumping her about to wake her up and overexcite her so she wouldn't go to sleep. Babies are very easily overstimulated. I do let MIL take DD out - they go to a baby class every week. I'm probably not explaining myself very well here . I know I'm BU being annoyed by FIL coming over next week (my last post) it's just the being told things and them manipulating things to what they want that annoys me so.

I have spoken to DH this evening, we had another row . We ended it that he will never quite understand and I will always find things hard. I said I don't want to not see his family but if I see them too often I become like this (struggle to cope and overthink everything). Maybe it's the pnd I don't know, but so long as I don't see them all the time I keep it under control.

But what's wrong with FIL coming over too? it's not like it's been sprung on you, you've had a week's notice. Is there some reason why it's important that he shouldn't see his gc that you haven't mentioned or I have missed? I'm not sure I'd call it manipulation unless you've made it clear he's not welcome. If they only see dd when MIL's babysitting then he doesn't get to see her at all.

You say you don't want to see them all the time, but MIL babysits once a week. How often do you see them apart from that?

At the moment, you do sound a bit over the top and unreasonable, but ILs can bring that out in people. maybe you could explain a bit more?

Are you my sil? I was wondering whether you were but you only have one dd and they have a few dcs. I would be the one who doesn't go to the family events because my mil makes me feel exactly the same way, she is not good with dd and used to feed her all sorts of crap when she went to stay with her, she would come home looking like a street urchin and be poorly regardless of me asking her not to feed her four yoghurts and three apples for lunch. She used to throw strops and manipulate dh too.

The only way I found to stop it from happening was to explain to dh how I felt and to be honest her and fil did some pretty nasty things to me so it was obvious how upset they made me. I never let them know though, have always been and will always be very polite to them. I think this is something your dh needs to sort out for you, he needs to speak to her for you. You need him to understand how this is affecting you and how it is or will affect your relationship.

if you say she really goes out of her way to make a small baby unhappy and refuses to hand her over to its mother for HOURS then why do let her look after her?

or has she just overdone the 'jiggling a crying baby and held her near to her face a bit and cooed at it' when it would have been preferable to hand over to mother to feed, stick in the ergo, take her for a walk?

with a baby (i've had two, so have some experience) you get into your way of doing things, and the way others, with whom you have perhaps a prickly relationship with, do it can bristle and it an become self perpetuating.

our little rhythm with our girls gets totally out of sync when we visit in laws and she has an eating disorder and food takes ages to be served and the girls get ratty and i have to deal. but there are more important things at stake than an upset routine or some minor gip.

that's the mantra i repeat to myself as i run, screaming, into the car

Thanks, I realise maybe I'mbeing a bit OTT. Tbh I think it's as I was really wound up earlier about it all, I'm a bit calmer now so a bit more reflective.

oct no she wouldn't refuse to hand dd over for hours but she would refuse as long as she could get away with it. Once time before she came I explicitly told MIL what time DD had her milk feed so that she was aware so she would know (to avoid her refusing to hand dd over) and then when the time came she kept showing DD a million and one toys and not giving her to me, then, when I would ask for DD as she needed her feed and DD would be crying and looking desperately at me she would say 'aww, poor baby, do you want your milk?' - I held my arms out to take her and MIL turned away and tried reading her a book which obv upset DD even more. This is a minor incident but shows how unaware she was when DD was small.

I have always been nothing but polite to mil and can be quite unconfident and am not good with confrontation and so find it extremely difficult to stand up to her.

strawberry alas I don't think you're my SIL . I think it's incredibly hard for people who haven't had this situ to understand how much this can eat you up and get under your skin to the point maybe it is perceived that you do blow things out of proportion. It's just the feeling of mistrust to her and that I'm going to have to put up with her on a regular basis for many many years and I know there will be things she will do with DD that we will have to stop - for one I don't want my DD to be encouraged to cheat and lie as she was doing with her other DGC this week end.

jux tbh nothing wrong with FIL coming at all. It was my problem - I just wrote the post as I found out and it just felt too much at that minute . There was several months when they invited themselves over at least every week end for the most ridiculous reasons (e.g. just need to drop off DHs bday present even though his bday is weeks away and we will see you on his bday ). It felt like DH and I never got time to be with DD without PIL coming over on that day. This has in honesty got better since I think DH had a word with them but it's very much on their terms everything - they have phases of being desperate to see dd at every given opportunity for a few months and then we hear nothing from them when they decide they are too busy to bother but I never know if they will invite themselves over at the last minute so always feel like I don't know what's happening.

I don't want to say too much which is why I'm not giving lots of examples etc for fear of being outed

I think what I've decided is if we keep it at the weekly babysitting and regularish week end meetings I can cope, it's just when I see MIL too much for any length of time it really does affect me - I have told DH this and asked for my sanity for me to just not see them too frequently in any period of time as it's not worth it for how it eats me up.

OK, now things make a little more sense

I think you need to establish a routine like once a month at a weekend, babysitting weekly. Maybe do a light lunch on a Saturday or Sunday with your ILs? Perhaps take it in turns for whose house you do it in, so the entire workload doesn't fall on one of you. Of course if you can make it their place then you have control over how long you stay.

There will be times when FIL decides he'd like to see dd an extra time, and he'll arrange a day off work. Here, the MN mantra of "this too shall pass" is a useful tool! Plaster on a smile and make the best of it. The positives for your dd are unquantifiable, while the negatives for you dwindle almost into non-existence beside them. That doesn't mean they don't count and you don't feel them - of course you do. It's hard this bringing up kids lark, it really is, and you do have to put yourself out for all sorts of reasons, but it's worth it.

I found my MIL almost unbearable (what do I mean almost!!) but the relationship between her and dd was fantastic and for dd's sake plastering the smile on and then screaming once she'd gone was worth it, without doubt. I do sympathise, I really do.

And gps are pretty good babysitters when you and dh want a night out together too. That is worth it's weight in gold too.

I don't go to any family events now and haven't done for over a year. Toxic mil and SiL both had me on the verge of some kind of breakdown. We moved 200 miles to escape their crap. Life is too short to spend time with people that make you feel shit. I would let your DH take your DC to his mothers and you a stay home and have a break.

jux I think we should establish a routine too. Things are going to get worse in the summer hols as I'm off work so MIL won't have her usual weekly babysitting. DH and I never go out and require a babysitter we are very boring so that bit isn't really any use to us, plus my parents live practically next door so would be a natural choice.

FWIW I asked SIL re: BIL speaking to DH but they find it very difficult and are worried about getting involved and creating more stress for everyone - things don't work well for them with MIL but they have now worked things out to deal with things in a way that works OK for them.

However, DH has now said that however much time my DM spends with DD, MIL should spend the same time as that's only fair . Seems a bit petty to me and I know it's coming via MIL not him but now he thinks IABU for being a bit that I should start noting how much time I spend with DM to ensure MIL has equal.

I think the thing with DH taking DD to PIL without me is partly my issue too - I know this is what MIL wants and I don't want to give her the satisfaction of having her own way even if it is to the detriment of my sanity slightly. I think over time I will be able to let go more and DH will be on his own and MIL may be less domineering as with her other DGC she has lost interest in them as they have got a little older (she likes young children as she can manipulate them and they can't work out what she's doing ).

DH and I had another discussion and he doesn't understand me at all, thinks his M is pretty much faultless and it's me (and BIL/SIL) creating a fuss over nothing.