How do you tell a friend that her behaviour towards her dh is starting to border on abusive ?

[CMOTDibbler]

Have known her for 10 years, him for 20. Both have always had turbulent relationships, but have been married for 8 years now. Both prone to picking away at each other verbally, and after the birth of their dd 5 years ago they have both found more to have a go about.
Over the last 6 months, it seems like she is a ball of rage and tension - yesterday she stood in a room of people and ranted about how no one in her house listens to her for instance, phoned her dh last month (my dh spends a day a month with her dh doing an activity, so heard it ) to shout at him about a bowl of washing up left overnight when she'd been away all week, also gets vv shouty with her dd and grabbed her face yesterday to make her look at her.

It all seems to be getting worse and worse in their relationship - he's not helping by running away into the PC/ipad/Kindle (and avoiding each other when times are hard is a feature of their relationship).

I feel the need to sit her down and confront her, but not quite sure how. Am aware she will prob not take it well either - its the sort of relationship where I have always been there for her, but I rank well down her friends list iyswim. We live far apart, but as the men do this monthly thing do see each other reasonably often

Keep out of it.

I find these kinds of people really stressfull to be around. It's not enough that they can't stand each other, they have to inflict the misery on everyone else! I'd stay out of it and give them both a very wide berth.

Keep out of it. It sounds pretty 50-50 for one thing, so taking his side against hers won't help.
Though if you get an opening ie she confides in you that she isn't happy, you could suggest Relate or similar (bearing in mind that if one or both of them are abusive as opposed to it being a mutually toxic relationship, a good counsellor will pick this up and advise separate counselling...)

I think it depends how close you are to this woman and what your motivation is.

If you are good friends and you genuinely care about her, I'd start a conversation by asking how she is. Say you are a little worried about her as she seems very stressed and see if you can get a conversation going about that.

The stuff about her daughter is depressing but it's hard to make a judgement as all my friends have shouted at their children at some point and we all get things wrong sometimes and are not the best parents we can possibly be.

If not, then what the other two above said. And Cogito, I know exactly what you mean about drama kings and queens who love to share their self-created misery.

It is very stressful to be around them, but the bloke is a very good friend of dhs, and we are all very fond of their dd who loves ds, so we will continue to see them one way or another.

Have been staying out of it a long time, but this escalation makes me want to just say 'you seem very tense now, whats the matter'

Oh, and I have no judgement on the shouting itself, I certainly do my share much as I'd like not to. Its just that basically her whole interaction is threats, nagging, or shouting now.
And certainly they are both well to blame, no sides being taken.

I would absolutely not mention their relationship but would ask her if she is ok and say she seems tense/unhappy

He Is probably driving her mad. That doesnt excuse her shoutiness, and certainly doesnt justify her being shouty with, and grabbing the face of, her child.
I doubt there is much you can say that would make any difference.
Seems to be pretty normal for many people to stay in relationships and make each other -and everyone else- miserable. But they have their own selfish reasons for continuing with them but never really bothering to looko at why/ how they have become so dysfunctional and what impact that has ontheir children.
And no, i wouldnt be saying 'she is probably driving him mad' if the genders were reversed (which i am sure isgoing to be a theme of this thread) but only because i know you cant say make such a 'victim-blaming' statement on here

You can stay out of their relationship but that doesn't mean all the shouting and other behaviour has to go without comment. When friends of mine went through this phase in their marriage I told them I didn't want to be around it and used to leave the room (if not leave altogether) if they kicked off. I think it did bring home to them how extreme it had got. I refused ever to take sides, either.

Their marriage is their business, but what level of pissy behaviour you are prepared to have around you and your DC is your business.

Sounds as if she desperately needs someone to talk to.

I'd just lend an ear (so she can let off steam) but try and remain neutral.

I agree with Hully.

We don't know what's happening. He may be driving her mad, or she may be the abusive person.

I can't bear to see children hurting or frightened, I would say something.

Not judgemental, but just gently that she doesn't seem to feel valued and that shouting isn't achieving anything, and should she think about counselling?

What Eldritch said: they can both act the way they choose. You, however, can also choose what you are and are not willing to tolerate in your presence. In practice, this means removing yourself from the situation and leaving them to it. Feel free to state why you are leaving, from the point of view of your feelings and needs. (ie. "I don't want to listen to this" rather than "you are a shouty and self-centred person/couple")

she sounds quite stressed tbh. and if you say that you think it's 50-50, then if your DH is close to hers, maybe they could have a chat too, and see what he says?

I'd definitely not comment about the marriage and focus more on her.

Yes, agree with DrCrab anger/depression very closely linked

By helping her - or by lending an ear anyway - you'll help her dd.

Thanks all, dh does plan on talking to the dh, which is easier as they've known each other so long and had some very frank talks before.