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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can Counselling really make things better?

7 replies

Bizkit · 18/05/2012 18:05

Last year me and DF decided to have a trial seperation, been together 10 years, 2 dc's 5 and 9. Things that led up to it were money troubles, which although not totally his fault, were not helped by his managing of money. i.e wouldnt pay the council tax when it was due because 'we couldnt afford it' even though he just got paid and should of paid it and not paid something else less important when money ran low at the end of the month, it did my head in, he even lied about paying it aswell, and also lied about paying the rent which I only found out after we split.

Aswell as other things to do with money we had a bit of pressure with everyday life, sex wasnt very frequent which frustated him, I told him many times it was because I was miserable with no money to young children etc, he at one point suggested I needed to see a sex therapist which I said no to straight away.
Later we agreed to get a dog,(this was before any major money issues)we got one but he never fully discussed it with me and I was worried as it wasnt a puppy, we had problems straight away, tried our best spent money on training etc to no avail, this dog made my life hell and I told him I wasnt coping, but he refused to get rid, so all this was added pressure.
We got to a point where we were barely talking unless we were arguing, he kept threatning to move out and I always told him to go then, but he never did. It was me who had to bring up the convo of what he was doing, and I said id rather end it now while we could still sort of get on, he suggested a trial separation and said he'd move out and try and sort money and we'd already started looking for some new owners for the dog. He seemed really genuine and cried and said he really wanted to make this work. He then said we need to see a relationship therapist, which I said I would think about, as he didnt seem to aim it at a sex therapist just for me this time. He was suppose to be staying at a friends and giving me some space but never left and I felt like I had to push him out. A week or so later I commented on something on his facebook which he didnt agree with, about the dog and he deleted me.
The next day he went out to a show as his work had a stand there, I had a 'feeling' he'd taken someone, this woman had been commenting on all his status's on fb and had tagged a pic of them cuddling at the pub, which he told me about, but he said she was advising him about separation and stuff as she'd just been through it herself.
He never came back that eve to sort the dog or see kids. I hadnt heard from him all afternoon/evening and had to call him at 11 at night to check he was ok, and he didnt answer, just a txt back he was at pub and would stay at his mates that night. Next day came back in the afternoon and we had a big row, I asked if he'd taken her and he said he had so I got quite upset(we have a past I'll explain) I later discovered he hadnt stayed at his mates, even though he denied that, I ended the trial seperation. He left and only came round to see kids and couldnt wait to leave once that were put to bed, I was upset cos I knew he was going out with her in evenings. After a few weeks he came round apologising and stuff and helped out alot. We also slept together. I asked him if he'd been with anyone else and he always said he hadnt done anything wrong. He kept coming back and we sleep together a few more times, but he was always still secretive with fb and phone and he started acting like we were back together and trying to sleep with me but I knew something was up,he got very frustrated and told me I was paranoid, so I checked his emails and found proof he was in a relationship with this other woman. He had basically lied to me for 4 months, the amount of lies he must of told shocked me.This was last november, he said he'd ended it weeks before I found out as there was nothing there and he loved me, I messaged other woman and she said it never ended, so to this day I dont know if it would of carried on or if he was genuinely trying to finish it, he said she was depressed and had a history of sucide so was doing it gradually. He'd basically been living with her and telling me he was renting a bedroom in a mates house. He must of been with her literally days after I ended the trial and very likely slept with her the day he took her out as I now know he did stay at her that night, he hadnt even moved out and we were still trial separated.

Bit of history, prego with dc1 he went off rails wasnt about much, another woman in picture,at one point we arranged to go to brighton for the day, he left without me and later on a friend called and told me he'd seen him with another woman(hence getting very upset when I found out this time he'd taken a girl for a day out) left me 3 months after birth and was with her few weeks later, came back to me whilst still with her. 2nd pregnancy, all good till about 8 months in, he started going out every night never answered phone, girls name in picture who he was going to pub with, wasnt till I have a nervous breakdown a week before giving birth that he stopped..still dont know what he was getting up to, he swears he never cheated.

Since the last thing, he said he needs help and has a problem and arranged to see a counseller, this has still not come about and was probably the only reason I sat and talked nicely to him about what he'd done, and tried to understand. He says the doctor has messed it up but we should see someone together which Im fine with, but we've been plodding along and have good times, and Im waiting for this therapy that aint happening. In the meantime Im battling alot of mixed feeling and what to do, to let him try and make me happy like he promises, or can you just not trust a man like this, even though he says he is depressed and its pressure and stress that causes him to act this way.
I know most would say he needs to go, but we do get on he does know me well. I of course worry about the children and staying together for the family, and where I'd be if I did say enough is enough.he is a good dad. Im so confused and wondering if we ever did see a counseller together if they could really get me past all the hurt he has caused me, in particular how he treated me during my pregnancys I think has really affected me.
We do have good memories and every other time he treats me like a princess, does anything for me etc. But I cant shift these thoughts of him being with someone else. Its sort of got to a point where he is here every min he can, and acting like a couple and I have such feelings of resentment towards him, I dont want him here acting as if he lives here..all his stuff is here, he wont go when I ask, he said he does live here and has every right to be here as his kids live here, I dont think he has a right to be here till late at night and stay weekends when he wants after he slept and lived with someone else for 4 months, but he doesnt see it that way, just says I cant help it if this is my home.
I think I let him do this and I do stuff wth him because Im very insecure myself and dont have many friends and would be alone without him.I dont think I would have the confidence to meet anyone else. I worry he only came back to me because she wasnt the great girlfriend he first thought she'd be or something, or maybe because he didnt want to look after her 3 kids I dunno, I'll never know why it didnt work out between them, but am skeptical its purely becuase he loved me. I so confused, please help.

OP posts:
Inadeeptrance · 18/05/2012 20:16

I don't think counselling is going to give your df a complete personality transplant, which is what it would take to change him.

He treats you terribly, cheats on you, lies to you, and is unreliable - especially when you need him most.

A few good shared memories and him saying what you want to hear, while he treats you like crap, just isn't worth it, in my opinion.

You and your kids deserve better than this. If you stick around you are giving him the green light to continue treating you like this.

Counselling won't change who he is, and it's not a magic wand that will make everything better. You have given him long enough to change, and far more chances than he deserves.

Maybe it's time to cut your losses and stand up for yourself. Words are cheap, it's what he does that counts.

What he is doing is crushing your confidence and self esteem, a bit at a time. Please respect yourself enough to get rid, and move on. He's taken enough.

Bizkit · 18/05/2012 22:27

Yes I've told him its just the person he is but he says it isn't and whenever he has done these things it's when he's depressed and under pressure or stress. Until he speaks to someone I don't know if it's genuinely a problem he has or if it's just his excuse, he does pour his heart out and he does have issues with his parents and stuff which do get him down, but it's me who's always there for him no matter what.
Since I found out he has done alot, and made huge efforts, is trying to sort money and stuff, so it's not just words I suppose, but when he says I won't be happy with anyone else and I'll regret it if I don't try he obviously just saying that he can't see the future, but all I've ever wanted us to be a family, maybe he'll never do it again but I've gotta live with the stuff he has done and have the fear he will do it again, I think all it takes is for a person to walk into our life's and pay him a bit of attention and he will be gone again specially if we are having money/sex problems. But I look at my kids and cry just thinking about breaking this family apart Sad

OP posts:
Xales · 18/05/2012 23:25

I don't think counselling will help.

He has cheated on you multiple times and you have just let him back every time.

If you stay with this man I think you need to do so with the complete understanding that he will cheat again and again and again.

Please get yourself checked at an STI clinic and insist on condoms if you carry on sleeping with this man.

NicNocJnr · 19/05/2012 03:28

But you aren't breaking the family apart are you? Is it you leaving the children in order to have sex with other people?

He says you won't be happy with anyone else - fairly standard diversionary tactic. There are 7 billion people on this earth of ours, I find it hard to believe not a single person can make you happy (he's currently doing a fab job isn't he?). Do you feel you deserve the respect of a faithful partner that doesn't lie to you and risk your children not having a home? Or a parent in prison for council tax evasion? Do you feel your children have the right to expect they can rely on their father to be there for them?

He appears to be doing just enough to get you wavering and accepting him back like all the other times.

Counselling can be an invaluable tool to get a commited pair of people back on track. But essentially you have said that either:

He has to have a core behaviour change or you have to become a money and sex machine in order to ensure he has so little responsibility in his life he wont ever get his head turned by someone ready to pander to his ego.

Neither of these things will work. End of. Stress and depression does not force you to go out and fuck other people because not having sex with people is somehow incredibly hard.

If he can make an honest commitment to take responsibility for himself and work on his issues and you work on yourself too to stop enabling his behaviour then you may well be able to start afresh with a new dynamic. But if you carry on in this limbo of providing a comfortable nest and sex on tap you are constantly undermining your words and actually invalidating your own feelings. He has no reason to do the, admitedly hard, graft to try and work in things as he has no incentive.
Support does not equal unconditional acceptance. You can support the changes he needs to make to stop hurting himself, his children and you by presenting one way to reward.
That's how I read it anyway. Little from column A, little from column B.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/05/2012 05:34

You can support him to be a good father to your children but counselling won't make him a decent partner.

Bizkit · 22/05/2012 14:38

Thanks for your advice, I think alot of it is down to my own self confidence which I'm hoping to get help with, have just started a therapy course for anxiety attacks and have told them all the other issues aswell. They gave me info on a marriage counselling charity and ex has already taken it upon himself to call them.
Ive told him I can't see it working and I feel ready to move on but he won't listen and just goes on and on, says trust will come with time and negative thoughts I have of him with someone else will fade, but I don't think they will and it's spending years struggling through that really worries me, when I could be moving on, but on the other hand I could end up with nothing.
I've been speaking to a guy online for a few weeks now, he has a good job, sensible with money etc, and speaking to him makes me realise there's different future out there to be had. I'm just deciding whether to meet this man of not, he knows my situation I've been completely honest and it doesn't seem to have deterred him, and he's not pressuring me to meet or anything which seems a good sign, but it scary territory for me to take this chance with a new person

OP posts:
Oogaballoo · 22/05/2012 14:48

You should not be pressured into doing something that you do not want. He has treated you terribly during incredibly vulnerable periods (your pregnancies), has cheated and lied, and is now trying to wear you down so you stay with him when you want to move on.

It is YOUR decision. He is not letting you make that decision in your own time and has not respected your right to decide what to do- instead, as you say, he goes on and on and tells you that you will end up feeling a certain way and it will all be better. It's not fair on you to behave like that.

You will not end up with nothing if you separate from him. I think you'd be better off, personally.

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