Was this disloyal of him?

[workingclasswiththebrians]

There is a huge backstory to this regarding DHs parents and their behaviour towards DS. We have had no contact for 6 years. This was their doing but they swear blind it was us.
We have had a lovely 6 years, have had a DD since that they have never met or shown an interest in. We have never bad mouthed them to DS who is now 10, he knows they exist but isn't interested enough to ask about them.

DH is in touch with his brother who lives overseas. He stays impartial enough but tries to shoehorn them into the conversation when he's over here.

Now. This is where i am in the wrong. Me and DH know each others FB passwords. No secrets so no need to hide anything. SIL got married last week so BIL is over. He wants to come visit next week. They communicate by PM on Facebook. I dont know why but i went into DHs messages. Sheer nosiness.I've never done it before.
6 months ago he asked his B for his Dad and Sisters mobile numbers as he "thinks of them often". He then states that he will put them in his phone under aliases thus being "cunning". His brother then answers with good idea, very cunning.

I have never told him he can't see them but since they admitted 6 years ago they can't stand me and maintain that I am the root of all problems this just tells his brother that I'm the cow stopping him seeing his family, confirming what they think of me. I'm gutted. Dh says that although he has the numbers he hasn't been in touch with them. His reason for asking was that they're getting on and how would he feel if they died and he hadn't contacted them. I get that but after how they behaved in the past to both me and DS I can't get past it and can't understand how he can.

I know this is rambling and that without backstory it's hard to comment. I may regret posting, but am I over reacting? Should I feel, i don't know, betrayed? cos I do. I'm not a cow. I only ever wanted to get on with them. Do I let them back into my childrens lives after they pissed off out without a backwards glance?

Reading back this is garbled. I appreciate if no one can answer.

Yanbu he shouldn't have said but I guess he felt it was easier. He has thrown you in it and should man up and correct it.

It does sound like he "blamed" you for not having contact, that would upset me.

I think life is to short to carry on bearing grudges, DH probably does want to see his family but doesn't want to upset you. Be the bigger person and help him to build bridges and let your DC's have the love of their grandparents

Well... I can see why you don't want them back in your life or your children's, but it is a bit different for your DH because, whatever awful things they did/said, they are his parents. It's like cutting a limb off. Sometimes you have to do it, but it's still going to hurt and you're still going to miss it. It's not your limb. So although I agree he shouldn't have been sneaky, I can still see why he would want to have the means to contact them "just in case".

I can see how you would feel hurt by this, it can certainly be interpreted as him having to hide this from you as you wouldn't allow contact. However, maybe he thinks that because you would be upset at contact he finds it easier not to tell you (not condoning, just giving an alternative perspective).

Incidentally, how would you feel if he was to start contact with them again? (obviously having clarified to his B that he had misrepresented you and that he didn't need to hide it from you).

Slightly confusing there, I meant in this case it's his limb, not yours, so it's easier for you to say "it should be cut off". Not so easy for the person whose limb (or whose parent) has to go.

I know. That's the thing I do get that.
Since my DDad died and my Nan there is just my Mum and my Sis in their lives. I do wonder if I should try and build bridges but then I think surely it's quality not quantity. The lack of a shit they gave from DS being in SCBU right up to his 4th birthday when FIL came down to "have it out" with us.

He is overwhelmed with love by the people he has in his life now.

I can't imagine never speaking to my parents. DH had a life before he met me.
Oh God. I don't know what to do. DH is sorry for hurting me doing what he did but regardless of that I know he still wants to see his parents.
His father has threatened us that he will leave a letter with a solicitor for DS on his 18th birthday to explain the real story of what happened. it's all such bollocks and so messed up.

We need the back story on this one...you do know that don't you?
Do proceed.....

he shouldn't have been 'sneaky' about it but then the real question is why did he feel he had to be sneaky about it? i think that's the real part for you to address. he shouldn't feel he has to hide the perfectly natural desire to want to know his parents are ok and to want some form of contact with them. it is natural, regardless of how you feel about them or whether you want a relationship with them that is (or should be anyway) separate to his relationship.

i must admit, that though i do totally get your feelings about it, i feel sorry for him being in the middle of it and not feeling like he can have a relationship with his aging parents. that could cause real, lasting emotional damage to him and to them in a way that grinning and bearing him being in touch with them and perhaps going to visit them (on his own if needs be) occasionally would not cause any real damage to you.

i think you need to make clear that you understand his need and will find a way to cope with your feelings if he needs to be in contact with them. it's the fair and right thing to do and in the long run the best for your marriage imo.

Oh Pictish. It's a long one. An epic if you will.

(I don't know why I namechanged I'm putting it all out there)

FIL is controlling.MIL is alcoholic. DH is middle child, dreadfully shy,easily controlled. BIL = golden boy, SIL = baby girl, gets what she screams for.

I come along. Not so easily controlled. DH starts bucking the trend and deciding stuff for himself. Doesn't go down well. All my fault. I'm apparently controlling him. They don't think much of him as he obviously can't think for himself.
We get engaged, married. We try to involve them but they aren't interested. So we get on with it. DH has a neurological condition which we have lived around. It's been hard but we did it. They showed no interest in him.
They come to visit occasionally. If i speak to them, ask if they'd like a coffee I get looked at like i'm offering arsenic. They are always very strange with me. DH refuses to acknowledge what's staring him in the face. FIL likes to take DH aside for "chats". When DS was in SCBU he turned up on our doorstep at midnight with a sleeping bag and insisted he be let in to ask DH (I was still in hospital) did DS have brain damage and we just weren't telling them.

After visiting SCBU twice they piss off and don't turn up till 6 weeks later. They then visit roughly 3 times a year for the first 3 years. The 4th year we don't see themn at all. On Christmas eve they turn up at 9pm chuck presents through the door and go. So haven't seen DS for a whole year. Coincidentally since SIL gave birth to a boy. We never took DS to they're house because it was disgusting and filthy. the idea of DS crawling on that floor made me heave.
It came to a head on DS 4th birthday when DH got annoyed enough to say if you can't be bothered seeing your Grandchiuld for a whole year it would be hypocritical to accept presents. FIL had a meltdown. Came storming over demanding to "chat" to DH in his car. Alone. Confessed to DH that they didn't like me, never had. DH stuck to his guns and explained why we were upset about things. FIL sped off and we were sent a letter saying how disgusting it was that we were stopping a child from seeing his GPs. WE Weren't. WE never said that. We said don;'t come over starting a row on DSs birthday. He interpreted this to fit his own agenda.

SSooo sorry. Thanks if you're still with. Don't blame you if you're not. That's it in a nutshell and I don't know what to do for the best.

Yes Swallowedafly. That makes perfect sense. I hate that he felt he had to be sneaky, but I hate that he had a snurky little joke with his B over it.

I worry of the implications of having them in our lives.

yes it was very disloyal of him and really hurtful. However if you do make an issue of it and do try to prevent him seeing his family, he will see his behaviour as having been justified. I think it's perfectly possible for him to see them without them being in your collective lives. You don't have to invite them to your house, but stopping him going to theirs? more trouble than it's worth.

Well I think you can make an issue of it without preventing him from seeing his family. Him wanting to see his family is not the issue - you seem to understand that. The issue is him making it out to his DB, who I expect will pass this on to the PILs, that the estrangement is all your fault and implying that he will need to be cunning in order to be able to be in touch with them. I would be furious about that because it is making the situation to be "them" (ie DH and his family) v you and basically ensuring that the relationship with you can never be repaired. It would also make me feel very vulnerable that DH would not have my back in the event that anything did kick off.

I'd be livid - but I would definitely separate the two issues in discussions with DH.

workingclass,

His parents are following the usual toxic parent script here; these dysfunctional people are more than happy to blame others for their inherent ills. Its always the fault of others. Its not you however, its them. You have done nothing wrong and they would have acted the same regardless of whom your DH had married.

Your DH has toxic parents and you are right to stay away from these people as they will only use you and your family unit to their own ends. Your DH is still being manipulated by his toxic parents even though he is now an adult with family of his own and is very torn as a result. he does not want to hurt you but by talk of using aliases for his Dad (I would like to remind your DH that controlling behaviour that his Dad showed his family unit is abusive behaviour) and sister cuts to the quick and your DH needs to acknowledge wrong doing here. Misguided is a word I would use for him.

How does DH get along with his brother and sister these days, putting his parents aside for the moment?.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; BIL and SIL are the golden children; a role itself not without price but they are too stupid not to realise that. Your H is the scapegoat for all the family ills and scapegoats often try and appease.

You need to talk to your DH as to why he felt the need to keep this information secret from yourself. No secrets from you, tell him exactly what you know, tell him you saw the communications. It does not make him look good in your eyes and I can see why. I think he is trying to do right by them still, he still seeks their approval subconsciously even though his own childhood at their hands was absolutely awful. Children still love their parents no matter how abusive they have been and still are. His actions were at the very least misguided but I do not think to hurt you was the actual intention. He has just handled this very badly and with a degree of cack handedness.

If your DH has never received counselling regarding his dysfunctional relationship with his parents this is something he now ought to seriously consider. He certainly could do with reading "toxic parents" as both his parents will be detailed within those pages.

You may want to post too in the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages as you will receive further counsel that way as well. I would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward as a starting point for your own self.

Do NOT have either of his toxic parents in your lives; they will only harm your own family unit and use you all.

Thankyou so much for all responses.

Sarah, I can honestly say I have not ever been certain DH has my back when it comes to his parents and I still don't. Or that of his children when it comes down to it.

All I remember from last time they were in our lives was the constatnt arguing, the times we almost split up over them, me popping painkillers all the time for stress headaches. I don't want to go back to that. Them being in our lives scares me that much. I worry for my marriage.

Sounds like alot of it was your decision (but hard to tell from your post). Even if your DH agreed, he has the right to change his mind and see his parents if he wishes to or needs to (these things can be complex).

Either way, I think its sad that he lied about this. Is frightened to offend or hurt you? Or whether its disrespectful, only you can tell, based on other behaviours. Honest chat might help, as often suggested on MN.

I wouldn't be too hurt about it tbh. You must know that no matter how ghastly his parents were/are they are still his parents and it's very difficult to cut all ties. Therefore it's inevitable that he will have wobbly moments when he wonders if he's done the right thing, his emotional reaction may not always follow logic. In the meantime he knows that they've been vile to you and so he doesn't want to hurt you by telling you that he misses them. Not only will it make him feel disloyal, he'll also feel a bit of a burk because they've been so horrible.

Cut him some slack, give him a hug and tell him you understand he's conflicted.

It wasn't a conscious decision as such. Them being out of our lives just happened. They became more and more remote and then took what we said about not coming to cause a row on DSs birthday and turned it into us telling them never to come back.
I refer to them as they but when the shit hit the fan it was ALL FIL. MIL made no attempt to contact us or stand against him to see her grandchildren. Same with SIL but she knows what side her bread is buttered. I sound so bitter towards them. I am.
I love DH I want him to be happy. I want him to be able to talk to me about anything but this feels like we're going back in time and I can't help but feel sick.
I spoke to him about what he wrote last night. He feels awful and is so sorry for making me feel this way but the fact is he wants to see them. No getting away from that.

Notmostpeople, yes. I agree. They are his parents no matter what.

workingclass having been in almost the exact same situation as you I think there are a few crucial points that need to be addressed before moving forward.

1. Yes your DP was hugely in the wrong by basically going along with and making a joke to his brother that you are the reason for the fall out. Now he needs to make up for this mistake by....

1. If he is serious about getting into contact again with his parents he must totally lay down the law with them. You are his wife, they must be polite to you and DS at all times. He will not except any derogatory behaviour towards you.

1. He must be prepared to give them another chance but for it not to work out. He must be strong and stick to his guns. If he gives them another chance and they act in the same manner towards you then at least he gave them another go but they blew it so time to move on and just concentrate on his own family unit.

1. He must respect how much or little contact that you want to have them. They are not your parents, they have hurt you and you do not have to have contact with them if do not wish to.

I have been through the mill with my IL's and we did not have any contact with them for 3 years. This was DH's decision. I encouraged DH to get in contact with his parents again (they wanted to have contact as I was pregnant) but I would not have done so if I truly didn't feel that DH was 100% behind me.

To begin with he wrote them a letter saying that he thought it best that they built up contact gradually and he opened a new email account and used this for the contact only thinking that if it all went wrong he would never have to look at this email account again.

They came to see DD when she was about 3 weeks old. I asked DH not to ask them around any earlier than this as I had a C-Section, which had then got infected and I wasn't feeling so great (and tbh they were the last people I wanted to see when I felt like shite) and he respected my wishes.

Contact built up gradually from there and now I even go shopping with my MIL and believe me that I never thought would happen in a month of sundays. I will never forget all the shit they put us through but nearly 2 years on they are still on their best behaviour and I think it's because DH put all his cards on the table and told them straight that if they ever spoke to me or acted towards me the way they had done then before then that would be it, he would never want anything to do with them again.

Basically what I'm saying is that it can work but you and your DP need to be prepared in case it doesn't if that's what you decide to do. Good Luck.

Can I just add....don't expect an apology from these people. I've never had one. You just have to be the bigger person, accept it and move on.

If it was me I'd be really upset. If your DH wants to see how parents, yes he can, but given the history he really should have brought it up with you first.

I think I would tell him to see them if he wants, but set boundaries e.g. do you want to see them, do you want your dc to see them, do you want them in your house etc?

FWIW I was 10 when I last saw my dad and decided I didn't want him in my life, same age with my grandad (too long to go into, but very very good reasons not to have them in my life), so your dc will probably see right through them and not want to have them in his life either!

Your FIL sounds like a nasty bit of work tbh and the whole letter when your son is 18 business is just rubbish, he is trying to intimidate you.

Decide what you want and how you can comfortably fit in your DH's wishes to see his parents before you speak to your DH so you don't end up agreeing to something you don't want to do.

Mampam and Cherryblossom thanks.

Mampam, your post has put it into perspective. If he really does want to see them then I do need something to work with. God knows I don't want them back in our lives but they are his bloody parents.

As someone up thread said writing what he did to his brother, it will have been repeated to the ILS and will make any relationship beyond repair(should I have ever wanted to).

He texted this afternoon to ask was I ok and that he was so sorry for hurting me with something so stupid and thoughtless.

I don't know.