My best friend is sooo negative. I can't say anything right

[numerouno]

She's always had problems for as far back as I can remember. When she's not focusing on them, she's great fun to be with, but it's all a charade. She has low self confidence and when she complains, she complains... at present (and for most of her adult life) she takes on too much at work and gets highly stressed, she wants a baby but can't have one naturally because her partner is pretty much infertile, she always owes thousands of pounds and always struggles with her weight. She drinks too much, has panic attacks, is always ill and as far as I can see she brings most of it on herself. But I love her and I want to help her, but whenever we get into a conversation through text or on the phone, she ends up telling me about her troubles and I start off all positive and then I think she must hate me because I am lucky enough to be able to be so positive and that I seem to have everything she's always wanted, but can never seem to get. I just don't know how to deal with her anymore. I just had a Facebook conversation with her and it just got more and more depressing. She stopped replying and now I think she's either having another panic attack or doing something stupid because of me. How do you deal with people like this? I desperately want to help, but she just loses patience with my positive comments and I can't really say - "It's all your own bloody fault. Get a grip woman!!" cos it's probably push her over the edge.

"How do you deal with people like this?"

by not doing this:
"I want to help her"

friends aren't there to fix you, they're just there to be there, it can be annoying if someone is trying to "fix" you and might be why she bites back a bit!

How do you respond to what she says? Do you say things like "it's not that bad, it will get better," etc?

I call these people 'Dementors' after the creatures in Harry Potter. They suck all the happiness out of anyone unlucky enough to cross their path. We all have problems but we don't all go on about them. And you can't help the type of person that is only happy when they're miserable. I would give your one-liner a try. She'll be horrified but I doubt you could push her over any edges.... sounds like she can't see an edge without wanting to leap over it noisily and entirely voluntarily

She is not your responsibility..

I was tempted I must say, but maybe face to face rather than by text as she might well do something daft. I can't help wanting to be there for her - she's my best friend. I just don't see any benefit in going "oh yeah, poor you. Your life is shit." It doesn't help anyone.

Sometimes that's all someone wants to hear. They want someone to acknowledge that yes, things are bad for them and they have every right to feel rubbish. Hearing positive guff all the time isn't helpful, all it tells the upset person is that they're not being listened to at all.

I guess I always try to see a positive from a negative and try to put that across, but it doesn't seem to help - maybe I should try "Your life is shit" after all. I said to her tonight that she has to take control of her life and not let it control her, that it will get better, that she needs to actively do something about it - i.e. look for a job seriously, go and see her doctor etc

Why not try listening to her instead of trying to fix her. If she says "My life is shit?" ask her why she feels like that. If she says "because I feel really low" ask her why she feels low. Just listen, don't make her feel even more shit by telling her she's not doing enough to sort herself out. If she could take control of her life she would, she's not upset for fun.

That's what she wants to hear, of course. 'Poor you'. People like that aren't interested in getting themselves out of a hole, they just want everyone to gasp in admiration at the depth of the hole. If you're not suitably impressed (like the FB conversation) they will exaggerate the problem in an effort to get the right response. You're obviously a solutions-driven person, upbeat, positive and focused on fixing problems. She's not. So you either accept them as they are and tolerate the misery-hashing or you gently drop contact so you don't have to listen to it so much

Without knowing your friend it's difficult to comment. But if she has the tendency to think everything is awful whenever one thing goes wrong then encourage her to compartmentalise - it will help put whatever it is that triggered the outburst into perspective and hopefully help her to see the positives in her life. not sure if that helps at all

I guess cyber space conversations are tricky because you have to respond and you can't always get the right impression across. Sometimes things can be taken the wrong way. Maybe I should just avoid those conversations. Being face to face means you can just listen, which is probably what she wants, but it can be so draining. She can talk for hours!

It's ok to say to her "Look, I know you have a lot on your plate and you really need to talk but I'm not much in the mood today, can we just hang out and have a laugh?" From your last post it sounds like she's using you as a counsellor which isn't a good thing, she should be listening to you as much as you're listening to her. If you genuinely feel like the friendship is one sided then you have to consider tackling her about that.

OP you are not this woman's therapist, you are her friend. All friends have problems and all friends dump on other friends from time to time. But it has to be in proportion. Constant whining, especially if the same problems come up time after time unresolved is boring and draining..... life's too short to spend it like that. Tell her.

I think you need to break the dynamic where she moans (and perhaps her life has been going genuinely pretty crap, her inability to have children isn't really her fault, is it?) and you reply with positive upbeat statements. That's irritating to her and annoying for you.

Either find a way to be a little more compassionate to her and start listening, proper listening, so she feels heard, or perhaps if you don't feel compassionate any more, you could just spend less time with her.

And, no need to tell you that Facebook convos are no substitute in a real friendship, I think they can easily be misread and everything is too black and white.

i do think you need to stop trying to fix her... she is an adult... you've got to respect her choices, even if they're choices that make her negative and unhappy.

and please don't try to turn things around to the bright side all the time. it just makes the negative person feel like you're either not listening or not understanding, or that you think they're being silly. i.e. that just feeds their self-esteem issues.

accept her as she is, or stop talking to her IMO

and i say that as an insufferable Pollyanna who sees a silver lining in absolutely everything.

people just are who they are, you can't try to fix them, they have their reasons for being who they are so you've got to just accept that.

"I guess I always try to see a positive from a negative"
that can at times be REEEEALY ANNOYING, sometimes you just wanna vent and if someone is all "oh at least you have your health" "oh could be worse" it can put you in a shittier mood where you just wanna say "actually no I feel shit about it and can feel shit about it if I want to"

sounds like what you are doing is not so much listening and being there, if you just listen people will often problem solve for themselves, if you jump in and problems solve their every moan it just gets defenses up

"I said to her tonight that she has to take control of her life and not let it control her, that it will get better"

you sound quite annoying TBH, you don't know her life'll get better, it might get worse even if she does "take control"

and "take control of your life" is one of those pointless expressions like "calm down"

You know, it doesn't sound like a great friendship right now from how you're describing it.

I do sympathise though, as my best friend and I went through a patch when it felt like I was her free therapist and I got totally fed up with it and found it so draining. It was all one way. Eventually I realised that that wasn't what I thought a friendship should be like, as to me that's based on mutually supporting each other. So I deliberately started sharing my own problems with her too.

It took a while, but we're pretty balanced now. Yes, she might still talk on a bit, but she mostly wants me to listen, reflect back what I've heard and maybe say what I think about it (I reserve this for the most extreme cases, e.g. when she's feeling down because of something that happened at work which I think is plain bad management on someone else's part).

'Oh god, I can't bear these people who just come on here and moan about their friends. I mean, they just go on and on, around and around in circles. It's so draining! It's exhausting! You can't get away from them! If only they would be more like me! Really, they just want someone to make them feel better about not liking their friends very much.'

I am being a trifle naughty
But you get my drift, don't you, uno? :-)

You sound proud of yourself for being positive, which is fine, but by the same token it's not particularly compassionate to judge who find it harder to have a sunny outlook.

She hasn't necessarily brought her problems on herself. Low self-confidence can start early in life for many reasons. Drinking/eating too much can be a way to deal with this - not ideal but maybe she hasn't yet found any better way to cope. Being unable to have a baby must be very hard for her to deal with too, and is not anyone's "fault".

Do you have any evidence that she "must hate you for being positive"? It sounds like she trusts you to be able to be honest with you. She obviously sees you as a real friend if she can confide in you about her problems.

As you've seen, trying to jolly someone along, isn't the best way to help. It won't tackle problems such as low self-esteem or even depression or anxiety (if she's had a panic attack this could be a medical symptom). If you really want to help her then suggest she seeks counselling or sees a GP. But don't blame her for her real problems.

If you're going to be a true friend you'll need to accept her the way she is. If you can't do this, then better to be no friend than a fair-weather friend. If you only want to be friends with people who are perfect like you never have problems then move on.

monkeymoma I like your style .

God now I remember why I never come on Mumsnet.

you got a lot of helpful responses here OP... no need to be snarky...

You don't actually sound like you like or respect her much. Do her a favour and let the friendship whither.

Sorry, i'll re-phrase that - OKAY, I GET IT NOW! I may be mentally scarred for life now thanks to your brutal honesty, but I learnt something!

Thanks!

At least I've still got my health... ;-)