Realising that actually none of my so-called friends gave a fig about me really...

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

Hi everyone

I've posted in here before about struggling with friends and feeling like no one likes me. I've always had low self esteem caused by emotional abuse in childhood and as a result have always been left out of friendships and treated badly. I've been having counselling and CBT for ages now and my self esteem is recovering. I think I've always attracted the wrong type of people before and been willing to call anyone and everyone a "friend" when actually I think horrible people zoomed in on me as my self esteem was low and just treated me badly.

Like I've said before on here I decided a few months ago to stop bothering with people and basically sit back and see which friends proved to be true friends and would bother with me. I always feel that people like me but no one likes me "enough" to call me their best friend or to confide anything big in me or to think of me first when inviting people to something. So anyway, I've sat back and, erm, no one has made any contact really. So the friends that I was thinking were my friends obviously weren't and it was just the effort from me that was keeping the friendships together. They're all nice enough when they see me and lots of 'oh we must meet up' is mentioned by them but they don't arrange a thing or even really bother to try to contact me at all.

So where do I go from here? I am still in touch with my best schoolfriend, and she does bother to contact me, but even so she has done things in the past that hurt me, and I have a couple of online friends that contact me a lot but they live hundreds of miles away from me.

What I want is to a) attract friends that are like-minded and will treat me well and b) have friends that value me and make an effort to contact me. I am happy to make effort too in friendships but I don't want to make all the effort as I have done in the past. I think the key is to not bother with anyone that's treated me badly. One woman at the school kept chatting to me and we met for coffee a few times but I didn't make any further contact as I found her self-absorbed and it wasn't a conversation, she just wanted to talk "at" me, and I don't want friends that do that.

I am good at starting friendships but don't seem to be very good at continuing them. I don't think I am very tolerant these days of anyone that treats me badly and have clear ideas of what I want in a friendship and how I wish to be treated. I keep going back to the idea of actually giving up on friends altogether as clearly I am not someone that people warm to or want to spend time with, I'm just kind of "there" to make up the numbers.

LOL Hyperballad, the scotch and dog scenario sounds preferable to me at the moment

Yer.... And what brandnew says....

Pink, I have done a lot of the things you describe in the past, especially the whole 'giving my all' to someone when they need me and feeling disappointed when they don't do the same or the relationship doesn't become closer because of it. I've analysed this a lot lately, as I feel I have my whole life wanted a very best friend, someone I can totally trust, who really gets me and likes me for who I am.

Someone who knows when I'm not ok even when I say I am and also knows exactly what it takes to cheer me up, and then does it without being asked...and I wanted to have these things because I feel this is the way I am in a close friendship, I give a lot and feel that if my friends cared about me as much as I did them they would give the same in return.

I have never found someone like that, and I'm not actually sure I ever will. It's funny that I saw this thread today because I was lying there at 3 this morning thinking about a recent friendship that has tailed off a lot lately because I have stopped making the effort and she hasn't come forward like I hoped. it does make me feel sad, and as if I'm not worth the effort, BUT I know this particular person has had issues with her DH who says he's never sure of where he stands with her as she is a very independent person, so I can see that actually maybe I AM important to her, but she just can't/doesn't want to show it.

Perhaps you need to look at why you have the need for a friendship like this? For me I think it was because my mum wasn't very hands on with me as a child, but I always had her full attention if she was annoyed with someone. if I look at my adult relationships I can see that I might in fact be trying to tore-create my childhood in my adult relations...subconsciously. For example, my mum is hugely insecure, gossips about everyone we know behind their backs and is quite critical....so the times when I feel 'safest' in a relationship is when someone is confiding in me about difficulties they have with someone else, or being slightly judgemental...somehow it recreates that childhood feeing of being important enough to share things with. Realising this was a huge lightbulb moment for me, because I began to look honestly at my own behaviour and see that I could in fact be a bit of a gossip, and very judgemental about people that I was supposed to be good friends with. I'm sure that in the past that out other people off, because after all if I judged good friends what was to stop me from slagging them off. I did it I think, because I wanted the new friends to like me so much that I felt if I 'shared' something meaty they would feel important and give me some friendship in return.

it's not something I do any more, at least I try really, really hard not to. And I also try to stand on my own two feet a bit more, I need to be my own best friend first, which means putting MY needs and wants ahead of so called friends most of the time.

I wouldn't say I have BFF's flocking around me, but I do have a lot of acquaintances that I can go out and do things with, and I am concentrating on that now. maybe one day I will find the best friend of my dreams, but I'm not going to waste my time waiting when there are plenty of fun people out there. just like the perfect man, there is no point in waiting for ms right just to be lonely and sad on your death bed when they haven't turned up.

Sorry, long ramble!

I think it's all about perception.

Well you know what pink, there ain't nothing wrong with the scotch and the dog if that's what you want! That's the nice thing, we get to choose

Good luck I'm signing off now. Xx

I think the poster earlier that talked about friendships changing in your thirties and forties was very wise. If you have a partner/youngish children/job/responsibilities you can't maintain the level and intensity of friendship that you did at school/university when those friendships were the key thing in your life - they just aren't now. Absolutely don't let yourself be treated shoddily but I really wouldn't get upset about the not being contacted bit. It doesn't mean they don't like you or are not your real friends just busy and probably got used to you being the one that initiates things. I think you are over thinking this - something I am definitely guilty of!.

FatherDougal, I totally identify with your story!

I think I do over think things at times, which is frustrating. However it seems that other people aren't too busy to do these things and to keep in touch. A group of friends of mine have started a running/walking group and are always going out for long walks, and I'd love to join in with it but I've been overlooked by the person who organised it all, despite her being happy to ask me to pick up her daughter from school when it suits her. That's kind of the thing, I get overlooked for things.

Hi Pink,
Delighted to share my expreiences with you!
I'll keep it all as brief as possible, so you don't get bored reading. In short, I was friends with 3 others in my late teens through to my mid twenties. I really thought that we were all great pals and they had a really, really important place in my life.

However, as time went on, I began to experience similar things to you describe: not being included in confidences the others were, invited to things "last minute" that had very clearly been arranged well in advance and finding out that they were all meeting up without me being there. They also treated me quite shabbily I felt. What you have just said about that call waiting thing really struck a chord with me! They also used to often turn up very late when I was meeting them and if I said anything would just laugh it off "oh never mind - you know what I'm like, can't get anywhere on time!"

I used to feel so heartbroken about it and wondered what was wrong with me and I put up with it for years because I couldn't imagine my life without them.
Eventually something happened - not unlike the wedding scenario you mentioned and it was the straw the broke the camel's back: I never saw them or contacted them again. They did occasionally try to invite me out after that, but I awalys just polietly declined.

Ten years later I now realise that they were phasing me out I think and wish I had taken myself out of the situation long before I did. I think the poor treament I put up with lasted several years and it has had a lasting negative effect on me.
I now have several very close friends who I value very much and wouldn't thank you to ever have these people back. I am so much better off without them. I don't think they are terrible people or anything, I just think we had different ideas/agendas about friendship. It's taken me until my mid thirties until I have felt truely blessed in respect of my friendships and although I did have some great fun times with these other people, I regret the amount of enery I wasted on them.

I think this situation we have both experienced is very common. One very helpful thing a good and proper friend used to say to me when I was being poorly treated and then after when I was mourning the loss of the friendships was "there will be a time when you honestly don't care about this". It took years, but the time has come. I really hope it will for you too.

It's a terrible sinking feeling when you realise you are on the "outside".It used to make me want to cry. I'm very heartened to hear you have been standing up for yourself. This is something I wish I had done.

Good luck. Keep us posted on your progress

It all just sounds like really hard work to me. Turning your back on people in the playground, deliberately withdrawing to see if they ask you, wanting to be in a running club but not just asking straight out. I totally see your counsellor is saying put up more boundaries so you don't get shat on, but on the other hand, some of these strategies look more like playground games.

I think the nature of friendship is generous, you overlook the faults of your friends (you are not in a relationship with them after all), enjoy the good bits, and be glad life has thrown you together. Once it's all about who calls who and who excludes who, its lost that joy. I agree that being a doormat isn't a good idea, but neither is continually testing out friendships which may simply not stand up to that scrutiny. If someone 'told me how it was' I would run a mile, as I want my friendships to be enjoyable, not hard work, although once I make a good friend, I would go a long way to help them out through a crisis.

If you want to join this running/walking club say 'hey, I hear there's a new running club, can anyone join?' If you want people to ask you to stuff, ask them lots and say 'let me know next time you want to go for a coffee?'

As for having a perfect friend, they really are as rare hypothetical as perfect partners.

Mumsyblouse, so are you saying then that you don't think someone should tell someone 'how it is' if this person is being horrible or unkind to them? No way am I prepared to put up with someone speaking badly to me or treating me badly just in case they run a mile if I tell them how I feel.

Awwwww mermaid, that was really mean of them to do that to you. You did the right thing in breaking away from them, it must have hurt a lot at the time but you've done so well to have moved on from it. Thank you for sharing your story :)

Mumsyblouse, I take it too that if you had hurt the feelings of a friend you would prefer to know so that you could put it right?

But proper friends don't speak don't badly to each other or be horrible or unkind, I don't think I've had cause to 'let my friends know how I feel' ever in any friendship, the only time I did I left the friendship as it was too stressful and like a relationship. And none of my friends have ever said I hurt their feelings, perhaps over the years we have, but we seemed to have rolled with it if it's happened. I don't agree it's best 'all out in the open' at all, friendships operate on mutual kindness and overlooking of faults like forgetting birthdays or not calling for a while, and all about connecting when you do get together.

I totally agree you should not hang out with people who are unkind or exclusive or nasty (and I have met a few but they were not good close friends). But ignoring people tit for tat in case they ignore you, it just wouldn't be for me, that's all I'm saying. I talk to a wide variety of people in the playground, sometimes one, sometimes another, taking it all terribly personally isn't a good idea imo.

And, I totally agree with Mermaid that if you get into a group and it turns not nice, and you start getting excluded, which has happened to me, you need to move on and leave them behind. I wouldn't bother saying anything though, I would just not go out with them again. That's why I prefer single friendships now, groups have the potential to turn a bit.

Pink I think I know a bit how you feel. I've always felt a bit of an outsider, but especially during sixth form when I went through a bit of (emotional) bullying and became very insecure, my self-esteem was rock bottom - I really didn't think I was worth anything and could see 'why nobody would want to be friends with me'.

It's taken years for me to build myself back up - but one thing I've realised is that my friendships improve so much when I'm happy in myself, or feel that I like myself and I am worth knowing. I must react differently to people and just be more of a pleasure to be around (that's completely obvious now I've written it down!).

I still have the odd wobble, and in fact have been feeling quite low recently. But I figure that's always going to be one of my main challenges in life. I've actually this week made more of an effort to get together with some friends and will be meeting up with them this weekend.

I guess it's true what they say, nobody can love you until you love yourself

I agree with brandnew and mumsy.

If you relax and be yourself, you'll attract like minded people. If you want to join the walking club, just ask!! Your friend probably just doesn't realise you'd be interested!

I've also never had to confront a friend, on the rare occasion someone has really let me down, I've gently distanced myself without any conflict. If people speak badly to you, they aren't real friends. Don't waste your energy telling them where they've gone wrong, and expecting them to change - move on.

Playground friendships are really transient, don't read too much into them - sometimes I chat to one person, sometimes another, largely just depending on who's there when I arrive - nothing more than that! If I felt someone were deliberately turning their back on me though, I would draw the conclusion they were rude and wouldn't be going back for more. Be careful you don't alienate people with this strategy.

I think saying something when friends behave badly to you is worth doing if your friendship goes back a long time, you are both really fond of each other, and you (or they) are very hurt but don't want to lose the friendship. I would say I have this experience (whether as the hurter or the hurtee!) maybe once a year or two years - it's not fun but usually the person who has behaved badly apologises sincerely and it's all forgotten about.

If this is something that you find yourself doing frequently, though, I'd agree with Mumsyblouse that the friendships may not be worth it.

carlywurly, do you mean then that if my friend walks into the playground and ignores me I should just stand there and let her do it? I think it's a more sensible, non-confrontational thing to walk off and speak to someone else, I can't see how it could alienate people. But if it means I get alienated rather than having to stand whilst someone blatently ignores me then so be it. You've said that you feel what I do is rude but do you not think what my friend does is rude too?

Thanks everyone btw

one thing i've learnt, and it's been a hard lesson, is that no matter how hard you try to hide what you're thinking, people KNOW. no matter how subtle or how well you're trying to mask your feelings, people are fitted with a very acute shit-o-metre.

the best thing is to be true to yourself (how corny), especially when it's really hard, and you will find that you start to gravitate away from the bullshitters. you don't have to be rude, you just have to be honest.

i'm not saying you were a bullshitter, i'm saying you were a pleaser and people could sense that so took advantage. also, people know when you're setting them up / testing them. no-one likes that. and they do know you're doing it, no matter how hard you try to cover it up.

forget all the playground stuff. if you like someone, look for an opportunity to get to know them better. these things do happen naturally if you're both keen for that to happen.

you have to stop caring what people think. stop thinking about how they react to you and what you should DO to make people like you. if you just be you, they will like you!

this is the one big thing that really made my life easier, ironically.

A proper friend doesn't walk onto a playground and ignore you, that's an aquaintance who may be thinking about something else, or perhaps chatting to someone else on that occasion, I don't speak to the same mums every single day or smile at every single person I know, it's not possible. I really think the playground is the wrong place for looking for deeper friendships, and it does have that 'playground' (as in a bit cliquey) feel.

A really good technique I've found is don't wait for people to reject you, just breeze past with a vague smile on your face. A couple of times people I know have failed to say hello to me (e.g. a colleague I know, or a mum I've seen every day for two years) I've found that if you say 'hello' in a bright and breezy way, but then don't wait to see if they reply, it's very satisfying. Don't look to see who is rejecting you, or watching to see if X or Y will come up to you, just go for the purpose you are there for (to pick up your child), look friendly but don't pay anyone too much attention and be chatty and friendly if anyone speaks to you. I'm always happy to stand by myself too, though, I see plenty of people standing on their own too.

As for deeper friendships, having sorted out the less promising ones, you'll have more time to get to know that one or two people you really click with. I do think building good friendships takes time though, I wouldn't say I knew some of my friends well until years into the friendship.

Thanks ravel, I do see what you're saying and I agree.

I don't understand about the setting up thing though? Surely if I just walk off to talk to someone else because someone is ignoring me, it's not setting someone up? Isn't that what most people would do? Or are most people happy to be ignored?

Yes, I definitely was a pleaser. I wouldn't say I am now though. But I'm confused by posts on here that suggest because I refuse to be a pleaser now I'm being rude or not being nice. I guess I just have to do what feels right for me, at the time.

i think it's a difficult line to draw. and i think it has to come from within you ie. only you know! i really hate this corny crap, but i think it's true.

so if someone is ignoring you, yes, absolutely go and chat to someone else.

what i'm reacting to is 'I decided a few months ago to stop bothering with people and basically sit back and see which friends proved to be true friends and would bother with me.'

now i might be extrapolating far too much from that one statement. again - only you know.

it might also be that you had only crap friends, and when you stopped making the effort there was no-one left!

think of it as having space to find new, better friends that are closer to your ideal.

pink, of course you should go off and talk with lots of people in the playground, but I think what people might be getting at is that most people don't feel ignored or slighted by others speaking with other people/not saying 'hi' all the time because there seems to be a natural ebb and flow in the playground and groups mingle and people chat with different people over time.

Of course, you may be right, if you are round her house for coffee every morning and she blanks you in the afternoon, that would be rude. But I don't think I've ever felt anyone is ignoring me in the playground, so I am perhaps not getting how this comes about, I just tend to think people are busy or chatting to others and are pleased to see them when they come over the next day.

Hi pink! How's it going? Is this thread helping or are you getting more confused?!

I agree with a lot of what mumsy says.

I think in fact most people are saying the same points on here just we all have different ways of putting it.

What mumsy said about the 'nature of friendship is generous' is so true. And what she said about overlooking their faults is so true too IMO.

I think this though will come easier once you've sorted the aquantinces from the real friends.

The women in the playground is only an aquantance so the technique that was mentioned of head in air, big smile and hello and move on before she gets chance to ignore you is perfect.

Xx