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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need some perspective

31 replies

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 13:58

Have name changed for this.

I have been doing a lot of reading on here lately, mostly about EA but I still feel I need to get out what is in my head iyswim.

I split up with my P of 12 years around 18 months ago. It happened very quickly following a lot of unreasonable behaviour from him, but it came out of the blue for which I still feel very guilty.

We met when I was 16 and he was 24, had our first dc when I was 19. He is all I know. He was always one of those 'treat em mean keep em keen' types, which I suppose was part of the attraction for me back then.

To cut a very long story short he was basically never there for me or the dc. He ran his own business which was the priority over everything. He would stay out late drinking and often expect sex when he came home and would get moody with me if he didn't get it.

He was always a heavy cannabis smoker, often used to promise me he'd give up but never happened.

He did very little around the house, with the dc, all finances were left to me to sort out.

I became a very emotional person, the slightest thing would upset me. I can remember going to bed a lot on my own and cry myself to sleep. He would quite often ignore me when I was upset. When I tried to talk to him he was very reluctant to listen or even look up from the tv. Our 'chats' would result in either him telling me to F off if I could find something better or making promises that never happened.

He would ignore me when I was ill, even after having to go into hospital. And there was always pressure to have sex.

I was also accused of cheating.

One night he asked me if I was happy and when I said no he basically told me to pack his bags, tell the kids and he'd go. I think it was a test or he was bluffing, but looking back I was at the end of my wits and I did it. Initially it was to be some time apart, but I have never felt like I want him to move back in.

But here's the thing I don't understand about myself, he still very much wants to get back together and I have half heartedly said I will try. I did tell him back in November that it was finally over to which replied he wouldn't give up and I suppose I have been worn down to trying again. I feel guilty about the way we split up, I feel I maybe should've tried harder and given him the chance to change. I seem to have this irrational fear of making him upset or angry, so I just go along with what he wants. I feel I need some justification for the split. I am pathetic.

I am waffling now because there is so much in my head from the past and from things he has said and done since we split that I can't get it out in words.

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foolonthehill · 02/05/2012 14:07

Why would you go back to a clearly abusive relationship just because he wants his old life back??

has he been on an abusers course, shown true remorse or even understanding about the way he treated you? Has he demonstrated real concrete change in the way he treats you and others? Has he made real promises of change and given you permission to hold him to them?

Do you actually want to go back to the place you were in before?

The answer is NO because he has just used his usual tactics to wear you down to give in to him.

rather than let this man back into your life with the abuse that that will involve for you and the DCs, get some counselling for yourself, join the Freedom Programme www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/ and learn to recognise what he is, then decide whether you will waste your life give him another chance as a fully empowered adult woman.

You and your children deserve better than the behaviour you describe above.

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 14:15

No I really don't want to go back to before.

Looking back it was bad but I really didn't realise how bad until he left. I know I'd be stupid to go back, and I know this isn't what I really want but I don't understand why I can't say to him that it's over and he needs to move on. I'm not in love with him, I don't want him to want me, but it's like he has this hold over me and I just can't say it.

He has appologised for his behaviour in the past, but says it's in the past and he can't change it.

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Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 14:47

Is the freedomprogramme for physical abuse? He never physically hurt me

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Fooso · 02/05/2012 14:55

You don't want to "upset" him or hurt him - you are clearly a good person and don't want to be responsible for denying something that someone you care/cared about wants - but sorry - he had his chance and he blew it. Dont waste the time you have moved on by going back to him and starting again. As another poster says - has he really changed? what has he done to make you risk going back? Once he's got you back will her revert to type - only you can answer that?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/05/2012 16:10

"Is the freedomprogramme for physical abuse? He never physically hurt me"

It's for people like yourself that have been bullied & dominated by an abusive partner. Can be physical or emotional abuse, it comes from the same source and has very similar effects on the victim. That 'hold' you feel is the effect of being conditioned to believe this is a normal relationship (it's not) and that he should be humoured and obeyed no matter how irrational his behaviour becomes. Being treated extremely badly on the one hand and then flattered that he wants you back is a classic technique designed to keep you unsure of yourself - on the back foot all the time, waiting for the next move, bit guilty as you say.

What things like the Freedom Programme do is get you to understand your responses and how they are being manipulated. Once you see past the smoke and mirrors and realise how he does it, you'll see that you are anything other than pathetic.

You are not responsible for another person's bad behaviour. Cut him loose. Stop worrying about his feelings. You don't have to tell him to move on, just stop communicating. Trust that part of you that's saying 'I'd be stupid to go back'... and stick with that thought.

foolonthehill · 02/05/2012 20:11

lost it takes a long time to retrieve the power that these men take from us. I still mentally check my decisions against what I expect his reaction to be...and he left 6 months ago...then laugh at myself and chose the "right" thing by my estimation instead

you cannot change him. He is right that his previous behaviour is in the past, but he can acknowledge the hurt and harm that he has done, acknowledge your right to feel sad/angry/confused/any other emotion. he can engage with a process that aims to ensure the behaviour does not happen again.

A true apology comes with a sense of responsibility for the harm that has been done, not a brush off line of "well i can't change it now".

You need to see that you are worth all the energy that you are used to wasting on him. A proper relationship is mutually supportive..not down to one person...if you are the only person rowing you will just go round in circles

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 20:15

Thank you all for replying

I suppose I am finding it hard to understand that some of his behaviour was abusive. On one hand we did get on, he always told me he loved me, he was my everything but he also hurt me very much emotionally and I could never understand why he was the way he was.

One of the problems I have is that he hasn't got himself a decent place to live, somewhere that the dc can go and be with him so he comes to mine to see them, and then I will do us all dinner and we spend time together. I have always said I'd never stop him seeing them (he did suggest I would) and so I vary rarely say no to his visits. He doesn't even have a big enough car to get the 3 dc in so he can't even take them out unless I allow him to use my car. I did have a lightbulb moment a few weeks ago where I realised I am enabling him to have his cake and eat it, apart from sex that is.

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Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 20:21

I can understand that fool. Although I made most of the decisions whilst we were together, he really was so detached that he didn't even get involved in where dc would go to school, I now find myself questioning what his reaction to plans I make and things I do will be.

Ironically he now has a go if I don't involve him in decisions about the dc, something I need to learn to do after years of trying and there not being any point...

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IvanaNap · 02/05/2012 20:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn as this poster has privacy concerns.

foolonthehill · 02/05/2012 20:32

There are other, better, ways of him seeing the DCs:

You can drive DCs to a venue (bowling, MacDonalds, Odeon, Park, swimming) and he can meet you there collect DCs to do activity and then you return to reclaim them after his allotted time.

You can arrange an alternative venue (contact centre, relative, friend).

Depending on age of DCs they could meet him via bus/taxi/bicycle

I don't think playing happy family at your house with you is going to do anyone any good.

Contact is for the DCs not you.

(If you wanted to see him you should do it separately),,,though why would you

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 20:49

I think I am Ivana I feel totally drained.

You're right fool it isn't doing any of us any good, I hate to think how confused our dc must be. They all idolize him, and I took all the blame for our split and have shielded them from anything he has said and done as much as possible. They do not remember all the times daddy didn't come home, or know that mummy wasn't crying because she didn't feel well.

And yes contact should be about the dc, but I think he comes more to see me than them, he doesn't make a lot of effort when he is here, unless I am involved.

I know I have to talk to him and sort out regular, consistent (easier said than done with his job) contact.

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squeakytoy · 02/05/2012 20:57

One of the problems I have is that he hasn't got himself a decent place to live, somewhere that the dc can go and be with him so he comes to mine to see them, and then I will do us all dinner and we spend time together

hmmm.. so he sees you as the easier cosy option, back under your roof.. little wife to wait on him hand and foot... trust me, that is what he has planned...

he grew up a bit and realised that he is almost middle aged, and also sussed out where his bread was buttered... but that shouldnt wipe out the years he has treated you like crap..

you are still young.. not even 30.. you have a lot of life ahead of you, and taking him back really would be a huge huge mistake that will rob you of the next few years while he reverts back to his ways, and you will find yourself hitting 40, wondering why the hell you ever took him back... dont do it!!!

foolonthehill · 02/05/2012 21:03

^And yes contact should be about the dc, but I think he comes more to see me than them, he doesn't make a lot of effort when he is here, unless I am involved.^

You need to leave him to it.

Don't facilitate more than is good for you all. Your DCs if they need to learn that people should treat others with respect and work together within reasonable boundaries. you need to give them this skill.They won't get it from watching the 2 of you pretending that this is how relationships work....one person gets all the glory whilst the other is doing all the graft.

Just imagine your son or daughter thinking that s/he had to act as you do to keep someone happy and sacrifice themselves in the process...you would weep blood to protect them wouldn't you? Well the lesson starts here. it is not cruel, you don't have to be unkind, you must need to be clear and focussed and reasonable.

foolonthehill · 02/05/2012 21:04

sorry: "your DCs need to learn" not "if they need"

QuintessentialShadows · 02/05/2012 21:13

He has a very good reason to NOT get himself a flat, and NOT get himself a decent car: Without either, it means he can still manipulate you.

The fact that he has not sorted himself means that he can use this to get access to you and the kids on his terms.

In future, and the weather is getting warmer now, dont allow him in. Dont cook for him. He has forfeited his "right" to family time. You are not a family any more. You have split up. (And with good reason!) Tell him he can take the kids to the park, the cinema, and that bus is totally adequate means of transport. He does not need your car, and he does not need your home.

The reason your relationship is over is manifold:
He takes drugs
He does not care about you (sorry, but he doesnt from your despcriptions)
He is manipulative
He is emotionally abusive
He stays out late
He does very little in the house

Frankly, you dont want to go back to that.

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 21:14

I do worry about what the dc are learning from all this, I realise now that our relationship was never really healthy. Eldest dd has witnessed some of his behaviour towards me which I have talked to her about and tried to explain.

I know that it would be a mistake for us to get back together, neither of us would be happy therefore neither would the dc. I do know that life is too short, especially after my health scare, but something is stopping me from starting the conversation. I'm scared of something, I need to work out what?

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tallwivglasses · 02/05/2012 21:17

What does he drive - some little boy-racer car? A proper dad would make a suitable car and accomodation for his dc a priority.

When was the last time you cried yourself to sleep, OP? I'm sorry, but if you let him back in you'd better get used to it again Sad

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 21:20

I could add more reasons to that list Quint. I cannot trust him and there is so much hurt and resentment that I cannot let go of.

He says he loves me but doesn't really know how to show it Hmm. I think he confuses love with lust a lot of the time. He knows about my fears reguarding sex, and my reasons for them, and yet still has no respect for my feelings.

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Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 21:22

He has a truck which he uses for work.

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foolonthehill · 02/05/2012 21:25

Don't have the conversation.

You don't have to, you can write him a letter to the effect:

Dear XXXX,

It is now 18 months since we separated and it is time that we formalised your contact with the DCs. I would like them to continue to enjoy time with you as their father and so I suggest that you see them every other XXXXX(saturday) and on XX during the week. I will be able to drop them at the venue of your choosing at XXX and will collect them at XXX. If this is inconvenient then there is a possibility of using the local contact centre (XXXX) although this would not be a flexible arrangement.

Alittlebitlost · 02/05/2012 21:33

Oh I would be very worried about his reaction to receiving a letter like that fool, although it would be easier for me to be able to convey what I want to say that way. I have written him letters before, as my head can become muddled when I talk to him face to face.

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foolonthehill · 03/05/2012 13:20

Me too..in the end i had the conversation but handed him a letter that made the same points (so he couldn't change what had been said).

Why are you worried about his reaction?? If you know he is capable of bad then meeting s in public places only...really, I mean it.

Alittlebitlost · 03/05/2012 16:50

Well done for finding the strength to do that. Has he accepted it?

I suppose I'm worried about how it will make him feel. I do care about his feelings. He has never given me any cause to fear him, although he has threatened violence to others before and I do do worry about what he could do if he flipped.

We have had a falling out today as he says I ask others for help before him and shut him out. I said I rarely ask for help from anyone and I do almost everything myself as I have always done. He said something that annoyed me and then apologised for annoying me, not for what he said if that makes sense?

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 03/05/2012 17:40

"He says he loves me but doesn't really know how to show it "

Talk is always cheap for these people. They keep you on the hook with weasel words and random apologies designed to make you think that they would care more if only you were a better person... if only you were a bit different. They can be lavishly affectionate one minute and cruel as all hell the next. You say you don't fear him but then you're worried what he could do if he flipped. That's fear.

I call it 'good cop, bad cop' because it's the same technique as they used in old TV cop shows..... 'Have a cup of tea & a cigarette and tell me, Nice Cop, all about what happened Mr Criminal. Then I won't have to get Bad Cop back in here yelling and screaming at you.' When you're constantly trying to keep someone sweet so that Bad Cop doesn't reappear, that's when you know you're a victim.

Alittlebitlost · 03/05/2012 22:42

So do these men always know what they are doing? Are they consciously trying to control/ manipulate / abuse or is it just who they are?

Tonight exp has expressed how what I do makes him feel and that all he wants is to be with his family. I ended up apologising even though I feel so angry with him because I am just expected to forget the past.

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