In need of honest opinions to an issue of responsibility......

[Bellini28]

Hi. I would appreciate some outside opinion to a situation that is driving me crazy. I am divorced with a 7 year old. Her father is very much in the picture and provides for her adequately. I have been in a relationship for the last 3 years to a man who has lived very much a bachelor lifestyle.... From the first moment he has been very good with my child and they had a wonderful relationship. He has been tamed by us so to speak!

We have broken up several times, (including last summer after living together for only 2 months....)each time he initiates the break up and then comes back with theories as to why we broke up (usually regarding my ex and his role in our lives) after some time apart and couples therapy we managed to get back on track and were planning a big wedding this summer. (A bit of background: We are both living in a country that isn't our own but have lived here for many years. He is wealthy and I am not.) Now just before our 'save the dates' went out 2 months ago, i received an email from him stating that i would have to sign such and such and that whatever happened my child would not inherit him as 'she has a father, alive and well'. Also that if we failed to produce a child and ultimately divorced or he was to die in the next 5 years all his assets would go to his nieces.......I found this email very cold and business like and the fallout has been substantial! It was not necessarily what he said but how it was presented to me, with bullet points! I can understand his wanting to protect all he has worked for.

I decided to distance myself and toyed with the idea I was dealing with a narcissist....(due to the breaking up coming back etc, angry emails when he doesn't get the response from me he wants) But i have figured that my behaviour and emotional reactions do not invite the best resonses.... So as predicted, he is back in touch explaining that he has spoken with so many people about this and that I am coming across as crazy in my expectations. I have tried to explain that after having a child of our own I will not and cannot accept that my children, raised under the same roof as siblings, will be treated differently (as in my child goes to state school and ours to private etc) He says that because I cannot separate my past life from my future one I have created this problem and it is my vision that is wrong! His point is that he is not financially responsible for my child as she has a present, young involved father. I would really appreciate honest opinions here as I think I am losing my mind.... He even sat down with my ex husband a few months back wanting to hear that we had his blessing over the fact that we will at some point move to London....(we are in Europe currently) I told him that no father would tell you what you want to hear.... just like that and it would take time to get my ex used to the idea...... It is the character of my partner to need to go over the fine print of everything and risk assess everything in life! He just doesn't understand me when i become emotional over how his approach to everything is like a contract!
Am I wrong to expect him to take some financial responsibility for my child despite the fact that she has a father very much in her life? Have I been unfair here? I am unsure of what has upset me the most! Rationally I know that he is not responsible for putting my child through private school for example... but for him to say if he dies young his nieces will inherit him! It isn't about the money even but more about how devalued I feel!

Thank you for reading and apologies for my ramblings.... I hope I have conveyed a clear enough picture.

He sounds bloody awful in many ways, and very controlling and manipulative. I'd suggest you end the relationship now or this pattern of him dumping you, getting back together and generally messing you and your daughter around will continue indefinitely.

I actually think that it is fairly reasonable if he has lots of assets, to say that those that he brings into the marriage can if he dies in the next 5 years go to his family not to you. Anything created in the years you are together are equal assets of the marriage and should not be included in this. Plus you need firm clear agreement on what happens AFTER 5 years, if you don't produce his heir but stay married. When do his assets become yours too?

Your child does have a mother and father to support her he is correct. I would think that any reasonable man who loved his new family to be would not have a problem with forking out to ensure both children are treated equally. I don't know if you have been on the step families board they may be able to help you more. As he is wealthy then his child is not going to go without, however flip side of the coin, would your child get more holidays as she goes with you and her dad etc.

Is he saying that if for some reason you do not produce a child and heir by X date then he will divorce you and expects you to sign stating you will have no claim in this event? Sound more like he wants you as a brood mare when I ask that than an equal loving partner.

Unfortunately money has to be discussed in a business like fashion. You don't have to agree with his terms you can negotiate a reasonable compromise. Be sure to get an independent look at it before you sign it.

Now to my personal feeling from your OP.

To be honest I am more worried about the fact that in 3 short years you have split up at his instigation and got back together when he has informed you that something on your side of the relationship is always to blame.

He sounds very controlling. You obviously know him better though.

And I think it is absolutely foul that any man thinks they have the right or makes the decision to sit down and tell a man that he and the man's ex were taking his child away and to basically deal with it.

It sounds like he doesn't have an empathic bone in his body.

Sorry meant to add, if you don't deal with this before your wedding you will be fighting permanently to stop him treating your DD as a second class member of the family. It will be a vile life.

Look, there is zero point intrying to change his mind. This is who he is, its clearly at odds with who you are...What kind of understanding/compromise do you think would need to be reached to make a marriage work?
I dont think its remotely possible but what do you think?

I don't think he is being unreasonable to say that his assets are his assets. They are not yours. You did not earn them. Equally, your assets are yours too and he would not expect to take them should you break up.

The issue is, do you have any assets of your own to fall back on if you should split?

Re his in and out of the rel, I am not so sure of that. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to hang on regarding getting married and see how you get on over a bit more time.

But always always have an eye on your own financial future. Gone are the days when men support us. Why should they?

Gosh, and you want to marry this man?

Each to their own

Two words....GET RID

I can understand him wanting some protection of his assets but personally I could not be with a man who would treat my child differently to any we had together.

I am happily married with 2 children, My 1st DD I had with my exh (who is alive/well/fairly wealthy and active in her life) the 2nd with my lovely DH, both children are treated exactly the same by DH, if anyone were to ask how many children he has his answer would be 2.

I couldn't be with someone who didn't see my child as an equal.

What are the consequences of you marrying him?

He will not treat your child as one of the family
If you have another child he will treat it better than your first child
If you have a child, it will go to private school and your first child will continue at a state school
Your second child may have opportunities that you simply can't afford to give your first child
Your first child will be resentful and feel unhappy at home
Your first child will have early relationships in order to feel loved
Your first child will have an unhealthy relationship with her sister
Your first child may end up wanting to live with her dad
If he dies you will have to manage alone, financially
If he doesn't die, he's likely to keep leaving you and blaming you for it
If you have a child with him your lives will be inextricably linked

What are the consequences of you marrying a lovely man (ie not him)?

He will treat your child as one of the family
If you have another child, he will treat them both the same
If he dies, he'll leave you what he has, because you're his wife
Your children (present and future) will be treated the same and so your first child won't be resentful and suffer the repercussions of that
You will be happy
Your children will be happy

Now - what are you going to opt for?

What everyone else has said really - some more subtly than others

RUN and do not look back

There are Red Flags galore there.

This is why rich people get richer and richer!

I could never marry a man who would deem my child a non entity simply because he isnt their blood father! The school thing is a disgrace! Talk about the poor relative! There would be massive sibling rivalry for a start and how the hell would you explain it to anyone I have no idea!

This man is far to far up is own jacksey love! I would walk away simply because your DC will have a miserable existence with that negative influence, Yeah there is a biological father on the scene that fantastic - that doesnt make her a 2nd class citizen to be sent to a state school whilst watching the siblings riding ponies and talking with a silver spoon in their mouths!

Leave the bastard

No, seriously, why on earth are you with this man? Do your daughter (and yourself) a favour and get out now.

Tell him to fuck off and stay fucked off. Your daughter will thank you.

He seems very ungenerous. Not purely in the money sense, either.

He sounds like a nutty control freak. What happened to love?

Forgive me for having a quiet snigger at the thought that this could play out like La Mills who, having secured a juicy pay off brucie bonus on divorce from Macca, whinged that the child of the marriage would have to travel steerage as the minging miser was too tight to stump up for anything more than an overhead locker on the plane for Bea

It's customary for there to be a degree of boxing and coxing before prenup negotiations are concluded and I suggest you counter his offer with the following alterations to the draft terms.

1. In the event of divorce within 5 years of the date of the marriage, you will receive the sum of £30,000* per complete year of marriage and pro rata thereafter.

1. If the marriage continues beyond 5 years without issue, the above sum payable per annum of marriage in the event of divorce is to increase at 5 x rate of annual inflation and, in the event of his death, his executors will immediately make available to you the sum of £30,000* to kit yourself out in couture mourning attire from Dior or similar esteemed couturier and, thereafter, an equal share of his estate with his dns.

1. In the event that there is a child or children of the marriage, said child/children will become his designated sole heirs and will inherit his estate in full with the exception of bequests to others not exceeding a total of £300,000 or 1/10th of the value of his estate after mausoleum funeral expenses and tax/death duties have been paid.

1. If you are married in the eyes of the law (i.e before an Absolute is granted) at the time of his death, free and clear title to the marital home will pass to you outright.

1. If there is a child of the marriage, it becomes incumbent on him to meet any shortfall in the sum your dd's df provides for her upkeep in order that her education/lifestyle does not materially differ from any child(ren) of the marriage.

The above proposed provision for your good self in the event of divorce or his demise may seem a tad meagre, but you can afford to demonstrate that his financial attributes are of little interest to you as, providing you do not seek any formal legal advice by way of a lawyer, you'll be able to clean up successfully challenge any prenup by virtue of the fact that you did not receive independent legal counsel before signing the document

If he agrees to the revised terms, I would suggest you discreetly insure his life with your name as sole beneficiary of the policy and google 'how to make your own fatal poisons that are non-detectable post-mortem'.

If he is partial to freshly picked chanterelles with his steak, I would further suggest you bone up on deadly mushrooms that can easily be found growing wild confused with their harmless cousins before you delight him with your culinary expertise

HTH.

*Figures picked from air for illustration purposes only - get your abacus out, total up his likely worth, and adjust the sums accordingly

Agree with Xales but if you want to marry him then izzyizin has made excellent points. It's not unreasonable to feel you need to work up a pre-nup as finances could have all sorts of variables tied into them but the way it was couched and aaaaaaaaallllllll the rest of it would have me arranging separation or the next time he leaves he stays gone. Also it's always so heartening to read oppressive dissmisal of your concerns by a supposedly loving and empathic spouse. When you enter into marriage you look out for the other and work to their best interests and yours as a couple, it's reciprocal. He's out for himself. He sounds shady as fuck to me.

Idk everything I've read just seems to say it will be hard going dealing with a narcissitic, controlling, drama queen and I don't want to subject my child to that crap. But I realise the op is not the full picture of your lives together.

Oh this has made me laugh!!
The thing I resent is this email was sent on the eve of us going to pick up the ring..... It has since spiraled out of control and he flitters back and forth between 'this is my position and I will not change' to histrionic bbm's (after my ignoring him) stating that he would have treated my child like his own blood anyway but because of my 'insistence of equality from the outset' (ha! this has only come up because of all the scenarios he placed to me on the eve of our engagement) the current situation is all my fault!

The irony is I had always stated I would sign a pre -nup etc. Personal profiteering was never my goal. I fell in love with him and have continued to love him.... That simple!

I agree with the other posters.... it is all very controlling!
The most disappointing aspect of all this is that it flies in the face of how he actually was with my daughter.... and she in return adored him. I would NEVER have spent any time with a man who mistreated her in anyway. She spent a heck of a lot of time with him and he has in the end belittled his relationship with her.

sorry my post beneath was supposed to be attached here!

I just wanted to add a thank you for all of your responses.....
I was starting to weaken yesterday but after reading this thread, my resolve has resumed. There is no way that there will be a happy ending here. So as sad as I feel it is time to move on.

It seems to me there's only one way to respond to his bullet points and that's to fire a few live bullets of your own at him.

Frankly, he sounds a controlling knob and unless he is exceptionally loaded not worth the hassle of a sorting a prenup as I doubt that he'll be capable of sticking to terms.

More worryingly, if you sign on the dotted line I suspect that he'll be more than capable of referring to them on a daily regular basis.