Do you know any psychopaths? Tell me about them, please?

[FreshwaterPlimpies]

Have just read Jon Ronson's The Psychopath Test and am now examining everyone I know for psychopathic traits

Do you know anyone who you're convinced is a psychopath/sociopath? What are they like? I really am curious to see if it's as common as is stated.

Link to the Hare Checklist
www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm

Just for fun of course. Am pretty sure you'd need a qualified professional to diagnose anything for certain.

Have posted this in chat too.

Thanks!

1. Yes, no conscience.

1. Also remember - very convincing.

I had to deal with a female psychopath at work. Made my life a misery. Lied blatently. Got people to side with her (they are clever).

Clue : they are often full of self-pity and will disclose something sad soon after meeting you, to try and get you on their side.

Apart from that, its hard to tell them from the rest of the human race - until they decide you are disposable.

Finally, they like to pick on people who are vulnerable (for whatever reason)

It's a very very small % that are psychopaths. I've worked there for 10 years and met maybe 2. It's a horrible thing to be labelled as and impossible to lose it once you've been diagnosed. There are lots of people with personality disorders which are in the same category of the ICD-10 but the spectrum is huge. Most people have traits of PD because no one has the perfect personality!

LOVED that book- just brought a copy for my sister in law who is a Mental Health Nurse. She loved it too.

Had an ex who was almost certainly one. He was an alcoholic too as has been mentioned by someone else on this thread, and he, Jane always reeled everyone in within a few meetings with tales of his tragic childhood and drunken mother. He'd had two short marriages (both with large, mad, lavish weddings... one in a cathedral!!) was very promiscuous and had NO feelings of guilt that I could see about anything. Absolute loony. And a fabulous catch: you can see why I went out with him . I was young!!!

Would like to think there are so few that we are all talking about one or two people we've all been unfortunate enough to meet

that's what I meant when I posted too Elkieb, but you prob said it more clearly! BPD and NPD etc fall on the spectrum but they aren't the same thing are they?

It's not innate evil FGS. Just a different way of being.

You can teach yourself empathy, and you can learn how to "fit in." I don't see it as any different than DS1's autism. The rules can be learned.

All about choices.

Plenty of people rape and abuse who don't have any kind of personality disorder - other than the fact that men are socialised to believe they have a right to sex.

Certainly, it's a bit shit to label a whole group of people as "creatures," "them," whatever, just because they don't happen to fit in with your subjective moral landscape, and just because they do not innately understand the way society works.

To answer the OP's question, yes I do know some - my stbx and his mother. I had realised a few years ago about stbx but its just dawned on me about his mother. This must be connected surely?

I think my brother is. But I think it was conditioned by his early family life.

I thought psychopath and sociopath were inherently different. One didn't know they were doing harm, one knew and didn't care. Read it in an article years ago, details are fuzzy. Simply LOVE Jon Ronson though.

AFAIK they are the same thing, just one is the American term and one is British.

Yes, I recently ditched a 'friend' with BPD (which I believe could be the same thing). She was so manipulative and talked non-stop about her problems (none of which she took any responsilbility for).

I believe my dad is quite low on the empathy spectrum, although we do get on very well, and he can be kind and generous - there normally has to be something in it for him.

Sorry, I don't believe that autistic people have no empathy. I am pretty sure I am on the spectrum, and yes I struggle to read people and say the wrong thing, but I'm actually quite a caring person, as is DS (who is also in the process of getting an asd diagnosis)

My Dad who is also probably aspergers is low on empathy (see my post above) but I believe this has nothing whatsoever to do with his condition.

Devilinside- Manipulation and self-absorbption sounds more like Narcissm than BPD.
Here is a list of BPD traits:
BPD

oh god don't misunderstand me - when I said like the AS spectrum I only meant a comparison to a spectrum not comparing psychopathy to AS. I was referring to the range, ie AS ranges from a condition you may not even know you have through to a total inability to communicate or function without support.

I meant that the psychopathy spectrum is probably as large, in that almost everyone would show one or two AS traits without actually having AS, so would almost everyone sometimes have traits that are on that list the OP linked. It is not common likely that many people are be completely without conscience or insight (in a serial killer/rapist sense!) though.

Sorry I really hope that I didn't sound offensive. In no way do I think that the two things are the same or even linked.

This is why the diagnostic criteria is so complicated and unwieldy. People end up with 5 or 6 diagnoses, sometimes running simultaneously, and the treatment is so complex. BPD is often associated with women, and is a damaging label. It's often called Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder these days as that's a much better and fairer description.

Personally I think the problem with the term BPD is that people do confuse it with NPD. From a diagnostic point of view though, it is clearly distinguished and no-one in the know has trouble distinguishing between the two.

I have just been "discarded" by my exH who is a psychopath who also has high levels of anxiety. He left when our child was 8 months.

(He has 15/20 of the traits on the list)

One thing that has always struck me is that sociopaths usually set up situations where other people will be harmed and then wait to watch the consequences (like arsonists).

Impulsiveness is a biggie trigger from my experience! Not able to control rage and also not able to forget and wanting to get back bigger style is a sign. They can sense vulnerable people and will use them for money, sex, general control them until no longer needed. A psycopath usually disappears but come back like a bad penny if they are deluded that vuln person is the cause of their life going wrong. The neurological part of the brain that deals with emotion has similar same as Aspergers. However imagine the person with AS is emotionally clumsy and the psychopath is emotional blind! Totally different reasons to why then they get it wrong! I think it is 50% nature genetic but 50% nurture. Having no proper bonding with the mother ie non eye contact has been noted within this disorder causing neurological changes for ASPD though for ASD it is different where the non eye contact starts when the regression happens. .i think their needs to be more research into early neuro development differences into ASPD.

I have noticed from Mumsnet a subgroup that where there is an ASD DC their is often a DF with ASPD similar behaviours of Domestic abuse/child abuse or neglect/ finanical abuse/affairs/abandoment/no care for the child/ violence if challenged for help with child disappears and starts new life.

I hope they find a gene and if they do early intervention to ensure the behaviours do not develop.

My ex interest in weapons, enjoyment of breaking chicken necks, revenge OTT style are all red flags. On Hares Psychopathic checklist he scored high even without me being so hard on him.

All I warn is dont rile or challenge this person! You wont win, you just get big and more aggressive actions in return and they decide when they want to stop! Unless the law prevents them ie restraining order prison etc

I learnt from my ex it was the eyes! They say you see the persons soul through their eyes, with my ex I saw sadness, emptiness and anger and the empathy was hollow and the charm false OTT!

One programme in US did say one genetic marker was higher in this profile. So they have spotted neurological differences in USA.

I guess if that does happen a genetic link is defo found society will become eventually more understanding to this is a neurogical disorder and differences in the brain like any other neurological condition ASD or Epilepsy or Cerabal Palsy etc etc

Trouble is hard to be sympathetic when on the end of their revenge wrath!

That sounds like another book I have a lot to learn from too re explain the last 8/10 years of my life! Thanks OP for flagging it up!

I am autistic (HFA) and I have empathy, sometimes I feel other people's pain too much and have to withdraw socially to cope. I don't express my empathy very well, which might lead to people believing I don't have any, but it's not the case at all.

I can switch guilt on down low or have it at a normal level, and occasionally I just won't realise I've done something awful or wrong socially, but when I do know I feel absolutely awful and will obsess about it for ages.

Only people with asd are on the autistic spectrum. If u don't have asd you are not on the spectrum. We are not all a little bit autistic. some of us that have undiagnosed or autistic traits are but if you don't, you are not on the autistic spectrum. Had to correct this point.

Devilinside - BPD is categorically NOT the same thing as psychopathy!! I work with people with BPD a lot and they actually feel emotions incredibly intensely and are certainly able to empathise with others, often to a fault.

If your friend was a pain in the arse it doesn't necessarily have to be because of her personality disorder. And yes to a point they are 'manipulative' but only because it's the only way they learnt how to get their needs met. Besides isn't everyone capable of being manipulative? I definitely am and I'm a therapist so also highly empathic.

I haven't often come into contact with anti social personality types, occasionally. I see narcissists more as they do tend to experience depression and anxiety more than true psychopaths/sociopaths. I also don't think there are as many as is made out, but many people have 'traits' myself included!

I am certain an ex boss was a sociopath. She was utterly dangerous and would set people apart, be outrageously unprofessional and play head games. I remember a coworker getting very upset after a meeting and saying 'you didn't see what she was doing, she is SO clever!' I thought hmmm until it happened to me, then others. She was awful at her job, would lie without blinking, and would rage like a lunatic. I would go as far as to say she was evil, and I don't believe in evil!!!
An ex was possibly one, certainly there was no depth in his eyes anyway, he could soften up the sides of them and wrinkle the laughter lines but if you looked straight into them they were opaque and when he was angry they were like little black pebbles.

I believe my dad was diagnosed; I'll never know for sure. He was weird. A sadist, a psychopath, and subject to much inner torment.

I now think one of my brothers is, too. He's dead charming, very successful, highly intelligent, interesting, attractive, risky, ruthless, self-absorbed and dispassionate. I suspect he may have recently started wondering whether he is psychopathic - I wouldn't know, as we're no longer close.

Am pretty sure XH2 is another. He's quite low-key, and not as bright as he seems. Doesn't see why anyone should know his business, commits fraud and theft without even thinking about it, loves to get one over on people. Lies incessantly, doesn't bother making his stories tie up. Has verbal aphasia - I thought his 'words problem' was Asperger's, but now I know this is fairly common in sociopaths. My family ones are extremely fluent & glib.

I'll catch up on the thread later :)

My ex ticks a lot on that list. When we had counselling he explained that it was frustrating when I had incorrect emotional responses. It was as though I wasn't a real person to him. He was generally angry at the world for it not providing the things he felt entitled to and the emotion I'd use to describe his reaction to my leaving is 'irritation' that it was allowed to happen when I was his. I look back and find it quite chilling that I was once married to someone so lacking in empathy.