Is any contact better than none?

[Changethatbulb]

My ex-h has sparodic contact with our children, despite there being a Court Order in place that he can see them twice a week. They are all under 9 years old.

Last year I think he saw them maybe 10 times. For a 4-6 hour period each time.

Me and the ex don't speak. We don't text (apart from when he texts because he wants to see the children and I respond).

Over Easter he saw the children 3 times in 2 weeks. Now they are asking why Daddy hasn't seen them since. I am honest and say that he hasn't been in touch but he loves them and is thinking about them.

I don't know what to do. Should I just let this contact continue on an irregular basis or should I say to him "commit to seeing them once a month and we'll work up from there"? To not want to drip-feed, my ex has had mental health problems which have required him to be an in-patient in hospital (I know this because one of his friends told me).

I am to admit that I don't want to rock the boat because if I lay down rules, he will most likely withdraw his maintenance payments. And without them, I'd be up the creek without a paddle.

Are the maintenance payments part of the same court order as the access? If so, it's not as simple as him deciding not to pay. If not, I'm sure the CSA could be of use. I think it's reasonable to ask him to stick to a set schedule rather than this erratic situation.

Yes they are Cogito. In fact, I lowered the payment by £50 per week because I wanted him to be able to start again. Have more money. But he had a breakdown and it's just been all a mess since then.

I need to set up a monthly schedule don't I?

I'd say so and don't do him any more favours. Keep it to the agreement rather than feeling sorry for him and allowing him swan in and out, letting you and your children down with his disappearing acts.

It's also about protecting the children's feelings.

You can't possibly lay down rules about seeing the children, you simply can't force him to.
You may not allow him, but not force him.

I'd explain to the children that their dad was not able to see them, because he was away for work, or even ill.

On his side, would he respond to you explaining that the children want to see him and need regular contact?
Or could they phone him, for example?

If you try to initiate regular contact for your dc while their df is suffering or recovering from mental health problems, you'll be setting him up to fail and causing needless distress to them - and, quite possibly, to yourself.

As Lueji has advised, I would suggest that you simply tell your dc that their df is unwell or make some other plausible excuse for his absence and treat the subject in a very matter of fact way.

In the grand scheme of things it may be that their df's input into your dcs' lives will be minimal or it could be that, if/when he recovers, he will avail himself of the amount of contact set out in the Court Order,

Regardless of how it pans out, until they are old enough to work it out for themselves, your dc need to be assured - and reassured - that their df's absence is not an indication that they have done anything wrong nor have they dissatisfied him in any way.

Thanks for the replies.

I do tell the children that they have done nothing wrong. Daddy loves them but isn't well enough to see them regularly at the moment and hopefully that will get better.

I know it's about "protecting the children" Leuji and that is what I am trying to do. They get upset about being picked up for a week or two, then nothing for weeks or months on end.

Phone contact - I'd be reluctant to introduce that. I had to severe any direct contact a few years ago as he would just sob down the phone and beg to come back. He also told the children "Mummy won't let me live there anymore" and they always came off the phone upset.

I know I can't force him to see the DCs regularly. I did text him after his last contact that the children need continuity. He ignored it.

I guess I'm still in 2 minds. It's extremely frustrating to have the DC's ask week after week if they are seeing Daddy or not. I am the one that has to deal with it, whereas he's the hero that can do no wrong.

I feel for you. It's hell, isn't it?

But as they grow it will get easier for you and for them although, to some extent, he'll always be their hero even after they realise that their idol has clay feet.

What do you feel would be right for you to do?

"What do you feel would be right for you to do?"

I don't know. Last night I was thinking of asking him to at least see them once a month. This morning I'm thinking I'll just have to carry on as we are.

It just sticks in my craw that it is the way it is. He was a manipulative, controlling, abusive twat and I feel I am giving into him when he messes me about. Like I'm still at his beck and call.

I obviously have resentment and hang-ups about him. (Shocker....not!)

You can't force him to adhere to a schedule but I still think that's the route you take. Even give him a calendar marked with specific dates. If he's controlling and manipulative a mental illness that allows him to behave erratically and keep you on the back foot is pretty convenient. I'd stick to your guns, be far more selfish about the peace of mind of you and your children, treat him as a 'well' person, and not worry about causing him distress.

The only thing that keeps you sane you can do with manipulators is to deny them the oxygen of calling the shots.

As this man has paid little heed to a Court Order, you're going to be on a hiding to nothing if you ask him to adhere to it or, given his nature, agree to an alternative.

It's a bummer because whatever alternative you propose, he'll seize it and use it against you to satisfy his own warped and self-entitled logic.

It may not stick in your craw quite so firmly if you can see the bigger picture and get your brain around the fact that, ultimately, he's shooting himself in the foot by not seeing the dc as much as he is entitled to.

In just a few years your eldest will be able to put him to the test - and, believe you me, he will be put to the test and found wanting in just the same way that you've found him lacking.

On balance, I'm inclined to the view that all you can do in the meantime is continue as you have been doing and keep meticulous notes of the times/dates he has put himself forward for seeing the dc and quietly ignore one in 3 or 4 of his texts.

God, I still don't know what the answer is. If I gave him a calendar, he would take that as a sign I wanted him back . A list of dates would be interpreted as me wanting to see him more often. He's really quite ill toxic.

I know my DC's will see him for what he is in years to come. One of them is already wising up at age 9!

The next time he has contact with the DCs I think I will say "right, so you'll see them again in 4 weeks on X date". And see how that works.

I have got to get some control back without a big confrontation as he thrived on making me angry. And yes, I do keep meticulous notes of when he has seen them.

Thanks.

I think that's an excellent idea. Communicate the next (once a month?) date only. If he doesn't achieve it, don't fret. Skip that date and communicate the next date. If he tries to turn up in between times say it's not convenient. That way, even if the visits get further apart they are at least on your terms rather than his.

Merely by virtue of the fact that your dc live with you and not with him, you are in control, honey.

Ok. Cogito and izzy - that's my plan sorted. Thankyou lovely ladies.

till the next time

I wrote loads and deleted as it was only my bitter ramblings :)

I have had to accept that my ex will deploy every single strategy known to man to avoid paying maintenance and regular contact.

I have tried everything. I really have.

My conclusion was you may have to accept it - it's been better for my mental health to just write him off as any source of support to his children.

My children - well they enjoy seeing him and get upset at lack of contact. If they ask why they are not seeing him, I just say he hasn't contacted me. They have mobile phones and can ring him. This has tailed off and their disappointment has got less as they have got used to it.

I don't feel the need to protect them from knowing it's him not instigating contact, because I don't think the situation is temporary. At some point the horrid revelation about their inadequate dad will be known and then they will really struggle. Better to accept as a child that this is what he is. I am also never going to take on any blame for a situation which I am not responsible for in any way. They know I love them in buckets and would do anything for them. I'm offering them the love enough for two. Diminishing that in order to protect ex - nah. It's not in their interests. They have me as a solid loving parent.

Toothbrush - sorry to hear about your ex. I am lucky that one of the things my ex has never done is miss a maintenance payment, even through his periods in hospital.

I agree with letting the children know your ex is not instigating contact. I have always been completely honest with mine, whilst trying to keep it neutral and not upsetting. "Daddy knows he can see you, but he hasn't been in touch this week".

You sound like a lovely parent.

I always said I was the loneliest married person I knew, because even when we were married, he wasn't really here IYSWIM? He never engaged with the DCs. He'd sit and read 5 newspapers instead and have me serve his dinner on a tray and throw it at the wall if it wasn't to his taste

Yes. I was a very very lonely wife. My loneliness ended when he left. Half the loneliness is because you are hiding the truth and presenting a front.

I will never do that ever again which is partly why I don't 'protect' the children. I am not blunt or deliberately hurtful and never bad mouth him. I am honest in as sensitive a way as possible. I think they all deal with it in their own ways. Youngest just accepts, middle feels worried and sorry for her Dad and eldest has little respect for him.

Long update on this one. It's gone from one extreme to another. After the Easter visits, he asked to see the children again (3 times in 10 days) but we had plans so I said no but asked if he now planned on wanting to see the children every week. He didn't reply.

I asked him again. He didn't reply.

So I left it saying that if he did want to re-establish regular contact, it's something we would have to talk about and build up.

This week I get a letter from his solicitor saying I am denying him access to the DCs and causing him considerable distress . It also said he wanted access every week staring NOW. At this point I ring him, his Dad answers the phone and tells me I can't speak to ex-h as "he's not well again. We're waiting for someone to come and assess him".

Yesterday, he texts me asking to see the DCs this week. I've said not until I speak to his father. He insists there is no need for this. I've said thats my terms, take it or leave it. He didn't reply.

My plan - and finally getting to the point of this post is to ask if you think my terms are reasonable. I want the DCs to see him but I want

• his Dad present at all times
• visits starting at every 4 weeks and we'll build up from there
• visits no longer than around 6 hours (2 DCs have SN and are very challenging)

I have no idea about the specifics of his mental health condition. He tells me he is fine.

starting not staring (sigh)

My ex left when DS was 2. He was very sporadic with his contact/visits. I used to get sooo cross for my DS and very wound up about it. I let it go and concentrated on just being the best parent "I" could be.

DS is 14 now and an absolute fabulous teen.

What I am trying to say here I guess is you cannot "make" someone else do what is right and DS is perfectly fine, the inconsistency didn't really make much difference to be honest. He see's his father two times a year of that and whilst he loves him, he doesn't really care.

I would tell the dc that you don't know why there dad see's them sparodicley, that possibly his health effect when he can see them but that they need to make the most of the time that he does see them and not dwell on the time when he is not around as it is not significant.

The time they do spend with your ex can then hopefully be enjoyed, make sure they knwo nothing they do effects how often they see him

Thanks both. Do you have any opinion on the 'terms' I've put in what I posted today?

I can't really comment OP as never really made arrangements etc. Sounds reasonable. I'd definitely speak to his dad though to get to the bottom of his mental health issues.