Is it wrong to leave DP just because I no longer love him when we have a 18month DD? Advice please....

[Beyondconfused]

In brief, I know in my heart of hearts that there is no romantic future for me and DP. He is a decent man, works hard, reliable etc, stable, but I no longer love him. We've had problems for a long time, no common interests, no social life, no sex life,sleep in separate rooms since dd was born, difficulties communicating. I know for sure that I can't see a future as a couple with him anymore.
BUT (big BUT)....we had an 18month old. I have told him I want to separate, live separately and share the parenting. He says I'm selfish and that we should stay together for our DD. I think this is living a lie and will only do far more damage in the long run.

Is there anyone out there who left their DP because they just didn't love them anymore ? How did you cope with the guilt of separating father and daughter from living together? My mother thinks that if you have a child with someone you should stay together unless there is some sort of abuse. I, however, think you only have one life and to live a lie forever would be wrong.

I hope someone can help because although I've made my mind up in my head/heart and told my DP I want to split, I just can't seem to make the break due to the guilt factor.

PS - He won't go to counselling by the way to try and unravel our relationship problems, I've asked him numerous times in the past.

Hello,

I created a very similar thread, somewhere down the list - similar issues. Decent DP, not unkind or abusive. But no shared interests, social life, sex, lack of communication etc. And a mother who thinks we should make it work.

I am in the process of leaving DP (we are on a break, I am trying to get him to understand that we have problems rather than resent me for breaking us up, which is taking a while but seems to be working). Seeing someone else write it down makes it seem a no brainer: you want to stay in a relationship like this forever? Watching your friends fall in love and be happy and knowing you'll never have that?

I know I don't ...

I don't think it will work for very long if you are both only staying together because of your child :(. There needs to be more than that for a relationship that would be good for all three of you (I include your daughter because children do take notice of the quality of their parents' relationship and it does impact them). And I don't think it'd be good for her to one day realise that the only reason her parents are together is for her sake. That can cause a lot of guilt.

Just because you have a child, it doesn't mean you should be condemned to spend the next 30?, 40?, 50? years living with what is essentially an affection-free flat-mate. It's not fair on anyone in that situation. Not you, not your partner and not your daughter. Your daughter may not live with her father any more but he can easily co-parent and share the responsibility of raising her. Both of you can then get on with your lives and find love with other people.

How were you before DD was born? Do you think this is triggered by the pressures of life with a child and the changes on the relationship - no social life etc?
for me once a child is involved I would want to do everything possible to save the relationship- counselling etc. I have split up from someone (pre child) for the reasons that you describe and I still have questions about that decision - eg could we have worked through it

Would he be more amenable to the counselling thing if he realised you were serious about leaving? I'm not suggesting you give him an ultimatum, more the opportunity to work on things.
Actually, do you want to work on things? Do you think you could love him again?

It's not wrong.

It's better that you split amicably over 'nothing' than wait for 'something' to happen.

It is not fair for your child to grow up with 'loveless' parents, how will that child learn what a good relationship is about. Leave asap, I knew my parents were 'unhappy' from age 11 they didn't split till I was 19 - it's not a pleasurable childhood I can assure you. Good Luck (but leave now)

thinkingthatitsover - I shall try and find your thread. Sorry that you too feel this way and I hope you reach a good place with your partner. It's so hard when you tell them you want to split but they don't. I guess for me, I was hoping my partner would see that the problems and lack of relationship we have would be a reason to split. But he said that we should stay together for her, would be best for her and that I'm selfish. I tried to explain to him that it would impact on everyone if we stayed together as we were and that she will grow up eventually sensing the atmosphere etc. Also, he's a good man, he deserves to be with someone who really loves him and connects with him.

tomverlaine - There were problems before DD was born (you're probably wondering why we had DD then)...I guess we'd always talked of having a family together (in the happier times) and then just got carried away with it all. I finally got pregnant after 2 years without contraception, about a week after I realised that it was never going to work. Fate huh. Like you, I feel like I want to do everything I can to save the relationship, but he refuses point blank to go to counselling, thinking we can solve everything on our own. We cannot. BEfore DD, there was a lack of sex on his part (he has low sex drive I think), no social life together. I was hoping if anything DD would bring us closer together (but that's not the reason I got pregnant, AT ALL).

Cogito I agree with what you say. I guess I am just trying to find some justification in it all because I think to split up a family (although we've never felt like a family) is such a HUGE responsibility. I come from an extremely happy and close family and had a wonderful childhood. I guess I've been sheltered from the realities of this kind of thing.

I feel so guilty about it all that I can't quite make the break. It's like I want his consent so I can do it (which is lame isn't it). I looked at a flat last week (I'm a SAHM currently so will have to have a spell on benefits, which I will hate until I can get some p/t work).....I can't quite make the break and say yes I'll take that flat.

Is anyone in mine and thinkingitsover position but further down the line, separated and moved on and kid/ex doing ok?

I would normally think counselling is a good idea, as a last-ditch effort.

But if he refuses to go to counselling, what else can you do?

Staying together for the sake of a child is not a good plan. You only have one life, don't spend all of it miserable. Your daughter will not thank you, she will just feel really guilty!

My own parents split up when I was 2. It caused me a lot of grief in the long run BUT that was because of how they handled the divorce, not the divorce itself. When I look at them now, I think thank god they got divorced, they are such different people, it would have been a total nightmare growing up with that.

I think you should try to put aside any guilt you feel, and focus on trying to handle the split in the best way possible for your DD. Do lots of research on different access arrangements, how to explain things when she's older, etc.

Just be sure that there's really no hope for improvement. It does sound a bit odd to go from being close enough to have a child together to having completely different interests and lives within 18 months. What do you think happened?

from a child's point of view(my parents stayed together for years because of us kids) your not doing the child any favours,better to have happy parents living seperately than miserable together

treks - oh he knows I'm serious as I told him I went to look at a flat. I asked him again re counselling, still wouldn't. And to be honest, although I know his nice qualities, I think it's just all gone, I think we are just imcompatible.

Kay - yes, that is exactly what I am frightened of. I don't want her to grow up seeing her parents in a loveless relationship, thinking that is the norm, I think that will hurt her far more. He actually said to me that he thought we would split up when she's older! Surely, that would be much much worse.

Oh sorry x-post

So he does want to try to work things out, but just not with an outside counsellor?

Is there anything he could do that would improve things for you?

Arghhh x-post again

I also think it would be worse to split up when she's older. It's like her whole childhood would have been a lie.

The older the child is the harder the adjustment to the split. At 18months she will adjust quite easily.
At 11 she will hate you both, and teenagers are great at taking sides and playing one parent off the other.

No ,if you are determined that there is no future better for the three of you, now rather than later.

Beyond i echo everyone else but also want to add, if he carries on with these guilt trips about how you're being selfish, just say to him:

"from my pov, it's you who's been selfish DP. i was desperate for us to go to counselling and you simply didn't want to. if you'd really wanted us to stay together, you would have taken that opportunity. it's not my fault you didn't."

because really, he can't pull the "but we must stay together for DD!!1!" card on you when he couldn't even be arsed to go to counselling for DD's sake. he wanted you to shut up and accept things as they were despite how you felt, and that was selfish of HIM.

dreaming you say your parents splitting when you were 2 caused you lots of grief, can you explain why? Did they argue about you, access etc? I am aware that making things as amicable as possible is the best possible thing we could do for dd. You asked what happened since DD was born.....I guess nothing. As in, I realised that things weren't going to change. Issues were always swept under the carpet pre-dd, my needs were never addressed, just his, he would on occasion belittle me pre-dd (happened after too), and from my point, it felt like he didnt' step up as a father...I don't mean finanically, as he's worked very very hard stating a new business and all the stress that comes with that...but essentially, he didn't help me with DD, I had very little support, almost made out that his work stresses were far more important than life with a newborn, which as every new mother knows, is utterly life changing. I guess the resentment has just got way too much for me to handle to the point where I can't be warm to him anymore. And alas, we have such differing viewpoints on what has happened that we can't seem to get past it.

Personally, if I was him I'd be agreeing to counselling if there was the very real chance that my family was falling apart. But he won't, so what can I do?

BUt he will make me feel foreer guilty. Says I will have to tell her when she's older that it was my decision and that he wanted none of it. Says I will be on benefits forever and that she'll lose out etc.

On the flipside, is there anyone out there who has stayed together for the sake of their children and regretted it?

When I think about leaving, apart from feeling overwhelming feeling of guilt and being scared, I also feel a bit excited, like, phew, I won't have to live a lie anymore. Is that wrong?

Oik - Yes, you are totally right! And thanks, I will actually say what you have suggested. I guess when you are the one who wants to leave and the other doesn't, you get so swept up in the guilt that you forget that actually the other person could try and change things too.

dreaming is there anything he could do to improve things if he won't go to counselling? Ummm, get a sex drive, get some social life, get some oomph, get a life that doesn't revolve around work alone, actually try and listen to me, be far less selfish, realise that actually now he's a father he does have to help with DD or wash up sometimes not think he doesn't just because he works and I'm a SAHM......oh, the list goes on!!

No, you're not selfish, but he is. He isn't objecting to you leaving because it will be 'bad' for DD, he just doesn't want to lose a free housekeeper and childminder.
Remember that you don't need his permission to leave him: be as fair and amicable as you can but if he starts behaving like an arsehole don't tie yourself in knots trying to placate him.

solidgold - I think that's a bit harsh probably. I'm sure that he really does want DD to grow up with two parents together and also he knows that he provides the money so she can live in a good place/go to decent school eventually, go on holidays etc. I think he is looking practically at it all and also emotionally for him as obviously he doesn't want to live apart from DD as he adores her. But weirdly, he had an unhappy childhood with two parents together and an arsehole of a father, so I would've hoped he would've understood the importance of a happy environment to grow up in.

I don't envy the position you're in. I've been there sans child and opted to leave - a few years down the line I still have pangs of guilt and occasional bouts of the whatifs but it was the right decision that came at the right time. We both escaped relatively unscathed and remain friendly. If I had stayed longer my unhappiness could have easily become resentment and that would have made everything so much more messy, especially if you add offspring into the mix.
The thing I'd struggle with most if I had to leave with a child is the thought of spending time without them. The thought of missing out on chunks of their childhood, memories I won't be a part of, even little things like being there if they're upset. I'd be far more tolerant of an apathetic relationship now I think, but surely that's no less selfish than wanting to leave to be happy.

Beyond - I won't tell you what the right thing to do would be, only you know that in your situation, but you asked if anyone had done what you're considering and what it's like further down the line....

I split with my exH over 2 years ago because I couldn't see a future with him and because I didn't love him enough to make it work (although I'm not sure whether you can ever make someone love someone else no matter how hard you work at it). I won't say it's exactly the same as your situation because everyone's different. He definitely didn't want to split but I definitely did. You are quite within your right to live your life as you want to without having to ask DP, or anyone else for that matter, for permission. Obviously when there's a child involved these decisions are more complicated but it still boils down to whether you are happy/will be happy in years to come. No-one will be at your deathbed thanking you for spending most of your life being miserable just so some other fucker could be happy at your expense.

So more than 2 years down the line and things are absolutely fine and have been for some time. ExH took a long time (about 18 months) to be able to talk to me face to face, he was just so hurt and couldn't interact, so all contact arrangements for our DD were done by email and text. And yes we had some blazing rows over email/text, but none were ever in front of DD and neither of us have ever said a bad word about each other in front of DD. We both have new partners and our DD has accepted this. Because she was only just turned 3 when we split she can't really remember us all together. DD stays at his house on a regular basis (shift worker so not every Wednesday and EOW) and she telephones ever night she's not with him/me so we both get daily contact. I would say as seperations/divorce go ours has been as amicable as you could hope for. Despite this there are still some days I could cheerfully ring his neck but since I'm not married to him any more I'm not allowed :)

Only you know what you want to do and are in a position to do, but if you do decide to split it really doesn't have to be as hard as you think. And do not feel guilty, sometimes relationships just don't work out, not because anyone did anything wrong, just that the realtionship wasn't right. But be safe in the knowledge that it's highly likely that your DP won't feel any guilt whatsoever!

Oh gosh, that is a long list! I see what you mean.

In terms of what made it hard with my parents, well it's a long story, basically my mum was very angry and bitter for a looooong time (even though the divorce was her idea). She moved away from my dad so I rarely saw him and it was only when I was an adult really that we managed to have a decent relationship. They argued about money and maintenance and told me all the details. My mum was very petty and mean toward my stepmother (who's lovely). Stuff like that.

Basically it was a lot of drama and emotion to navigate for a small child, and it was really all I knew from the earliest days. I don't think it would have been so bad if they had shielded me from it, or arranged counselling at some point.

So that's what I mean about making the best of it for your DD -- just try to protect her from any ugliness, and be there for her if she is ever upset or bothered about anything.

FWIW both my parents remarried and have each been with their second partners for more than 30 years! Just think of what they would have missed if they had stuck with their miserable relationship.

BC: But he is not prepared to put any effort into addressing your unhappiness, won't go to counselling, won't talk to you, won't discuss sexual difficulties, yet tells you you mustn't 'break up the family'. That's selfish. You do not exist just to meet his needs.

solid to be fair to him he did say, when I asked him for an alternative to separating, that we should try very slowly and make small changes as it's been such a shit 18 months. BUT, he thinks we can do it alone, without any outside help. And I know we can't. If I try and get him to address things he always only sees things from his perspective and it always comes down to his work stresses/my moods. Instead of trying to address the cause of my resentment he just talks about himself. It's always been this way. Fundementally we are incompatible. I swing between wanting to leave for sure and then thinking of the happier times (like when I was pregnant) and thinking maybe it could be saved, just maybe. But then something happens or is said and I realise that our dynamic will never change. BUt yes, I do see what you are saying. I think my counsellor made me see that my needs aren't being met.

Treks - If you had a child, I'm not sure you would be far less tolerant of an apathetic relationship if you had a child. The resentments can be huge when you feel you have been unsupported as a mother and your partner doesn't help you in the evenings or weekends and he begrudes you 2 hours off at the weekend or makes you feel like doing some childcare is actually him doing you a favour.

newdaynewpants (great name!) - Thanks so much for your reply. It was very encouraging to read. No-one will be at your deathbed thanking you for spending most of your life being miserable just so some other fucker could be happy at your expense.....I guess you are right...surely he can't be happy with me anymore either, he has said as much. However, I can understand that he wants his daughter to have two parents together, that he wants to live with his daughter. I mean, come on, let's be fair to decent men, it must be totally heartbreaking to be in the situation where the woman wants to split up and the child automatically lives with her. Totally heartbreaking.

That's great that your situation has turned out fine. Perhaps I'm being optimistic, or naive, but I am hoping for a good outcome. We are being pleasant to eachother, just staying out of eachothers way except where DD is involved.

dreamingbohemian - oh that's very sad that you had to be involved in your parent's fights. That must've been very hard to deal with, all that bad atmosphere. I am wholeheartedly going to ensure that my DD will not be witness to bad things. I hope it will all eventually feel amicable. DP is being ok about it (on the surface, I'm sure inside he is beyond hurt and upset).

Today I saw the same flat I saw last week. I want to take it as I know it's the right place for me and DD and also it's 10mins walk away from DP and 1 min walk away from his work so he could come and see after for bathtime etc (again, am I being naive?) I am going to put my application in with the agency tomorrow (as they take Housing Ben). I just hope the landlord accepts. I am bloody terrified of the actual moving out part. I haven't told DP yet. I am going to tell him tomorrow. I just don't know how I'm going to deal with the guilt.

Thank you all for your invaluable responses and making me feel less like a selfish person.