Do selfish people ever change?

[beejay]

Am on verge of splitting up with my boyfriend. There are a number of reasons why we should split up (despite the fact that we love each other) but I think number one is the fact that he is by nature a selfish (and self-obsessed) person. (This is partly due to his very difficult upbringing I'm sure)
If someone is like that though, can they ever change? Does anyone know anyone who used to be selfish but is now selfless?

Sadly, I'm inclined to say not.

Mmmmmm. That's what I thought...

It depends on their level of self awareness, and whether they want to change - if they understand the reasons for their behaviour patterns, then they can take steps to alter them.
How does he feel about his upbringing? Does he agree that he is selfish? I f you say that you are leaving him due to his selfish behaviour, would that make him want to do something about it?
But the short answer to your question, imho, is - on the whole, no.

I think people can change if a) they want to and b) they become aware of why they are selfish and if they can see why their lives would be better if they weren't.

I've seen amazing transformations of people in all sorts of circumstances - recovered alcoholics, unhappy people who became happy, overweight people who became fit, doormats who became strong, confident and independent.

So selfish people - yes, I see no reason why they can't change. Change is possible. But they have to want to and that's the key.

Sadly, I think not. My dh is very much like your bf (selfish, self-obsessed, difficult childhood) and after 7 years I am giving up hope of him ever changing and therefore of our marriage having much future

OMG, came on here to post about dh and then saw this!

Been with dh for nearly 10 years, he's selfish (i call him Mr Self-Absorbed!) and had a very horrible childhood.

We split up last night as I've had enough and I know he'll never change (believe me he's been given the opportunity!). I love him to bits but hate him and what he's doing to me! But mainly, I am doing this for my ds's sake as it's not a happy home and I want to try and go it alone!

I personally think they need to really really want it and work at it to change!

Dont know, but im afraid i feel compelled to post that i had a huge blow up with DP last night because he thought i was selfish for not b/feeding DS to sleep to allow him to sleep because he had to get up for work in the morning.

DS has woken at least twice a night most nights since he was born nearly 10 months ago. He had fed two hours before and i was trying to pat him to sleep.

Dont know what to say to you really beejay. Im obviously in no position to give advice but i do sympathise.

no dont think they can change that much

He is very self-aware (endless therapy) but whether he is commited to changing himself I don't know. He is certainly unhappy with the way he is, miserable about the fact that he can't seem to make relationships work, when all his friends are getting married and having kids.
But at the same time he doesn't seem to be able to take the necessary steps to make relationships work (eg being honest and making compromises)

I think it was really driven home to me when something horrible happened to me the other week and his first reaction was 'how do you think that makes me feel?'

Ha!! That says it all beejay!!
I have a friend who's shit of a dh says 'But I have changed' in an attempt to get her back, at the same time doing something that demonstrates the exact oppostite.

So no, I don't think so.

I agree with caligula that people can change, but the examples she gives all benefit the person in question. IMO it is hard to convince a selfish person that becoming unselfish is in his own interest.

My best friend left her husband just before Xmas, he was the most selfish self centred creature that I have ever came across.
Now, a couple of months on he is a lonely selfish self centred creature, she as as happy as a bird.

Good point Coolturkey. I suppose you could argue, beejay, that the reason he is unhappy is because he is utterly selfish and that's what stopped him making decent, fulfilling relationships. So if he stopped being selfish, he would be able to be happy, which is why it is in his interests to stop being selfish. But he'll need a bit of long term vision to believe that...

No, not unless they undergo some life-changing event. Dump him. Adults don't change drastically very much, anyhow, especially after 30.

NO, damn them. Run a mile before it's too late.

Nah.
Ditched a very selfish friend last year (40,no kids,loads of unsuitable boyfriends,cats..you get the picture)

Best thing i ever did.

hi beejay
My boyf has had bouts of being very selfish too. (In a similar situation to yours last week, this was a couple of years ago I spoke to him on the phone about problems i was having, 10 mins later he rang back saying that I had brought him down and that he was going to find it hard to concentrate on what he was having to do later that day! I had got off the phone to him feeling so much better having talked to him and then he does that! Another time, about 6 months ago, after a phase when i was feeling tired & miserable and he was to be fair already fed up with that, I got ill & texted him about it and he replied in a text "Get over yourself!" In all honesty, he prob thought it was same old same old rather than me actually being ill, and he did come over 2 days later with a bunch of flowers... but... A week later my sister's boyf took it into his head to come over and cook us dinner because I'd had a hard time and been ill!! I was like "Why can't my boyf be like that!!" He's never been one to do nice things on the spur of the moment, for the sake of doing nice things iykwim. Feels like he needs to get something out of it himself.

But, just to give you a bit of hope, obviously i don't know your boyf and he sounds like an ae right now, my boyf is very self aware too and very good at apologising if he does something wrong. And the stronger I get in challenging him, the more it helps him to realise tbh - he appreciates outright honesty and doesn't want to upset me or make me angry. He has gotten more and more considerate and mature the longer we've been together. It is hopeful if your boyf is self aware, sounds like he might be just stuck in a rut.
I do feel a lot with my boyf though that i've got to be the more mature and giving of the two of us. I sometimes feel like it's one rule for him, one for me. It's ok for him to be knackered & want an early night but if i feel like that it gets him down. It's ok for him to waffle on about his problems but if i have problems he gets irritated, dismissive and lectures me. But like i said, all that is getting better these days - and he does talk a lot of sense as a lot of my problems are in my head or are impossible to do anything about! Plus the negative aspects of my boyf are like a mirror image of mine, so being with him has challenged me too in terms of realising my own faults. if that makes sense. So perhaps i am more tolerant or patient with him because i understand it. It feels like he is my soul mate (not that i believe in "the one"). He challenges me, i challenge him.

Message withdrawn

Been thinking further.
I think I have actually learnt that a lot of boyf's previous selfish-seeming attitudes were down to the fact that he felt helpless or under pressure to do something to help (from what I can tell, this is probably a male trait). So me moaning about something was just about having someone to talk to, whereas boyf felt he ought to be doing something and so reacted the way he did - the problems I was talking about in that phonecall were money-related and he has said since that he was really aware the whole time that as my boyf he was in a position to choose to be "father" and provide for me & dd - when in fact that was nowhere NEAR what I wanted from him! I think it took him a long time to finally trust that I really didn't want him to fill that position, and quite often it made him look doggedly self-centred and defensive of his own time, money, everything! Like I said, things are changing now, and i think it's because he has relaxed in the relationship knowing that i don't want that from him actually. Ironically, it has made him more willing to help out!

What got me thinking about that was, I was thinking about perspective of selfishness. I stayed with my parents for the first 7 weeks so that in itself made it difficult for me & boyf to figure out where we were with "us". For the first few weeks boyf put a brave face on and looked as if he was coping well (not that I saw much of him tho), but he eventually one day broke down in tears (1 of only 2 times i've seen him cry - except for at the end of ET ) and told me he wasn't sure he could continue the relationship (it was all too hard for him for various reasons i won't go into now). My family, esp my mum, were i think furious that he had landed all that on me at such a vulnerable time, but to this day I am so, so grateful that he did. I needed that blunt honesty, if he had been promising me forever i wouldn't've trusted it anyway. And, ok i had just had a baby, but things were hard for him too, and he had a right to express that to me, however selfish it might look from the outside. I wouldn't've known or understood otherwise. It felt more like we were going through the hard stuff together, though in very different ways.

I've no idea how this relates to you and your situation, beejay, I might have totally digressed, but thought i'd share that in case it does ring any bells.

What's sadder, an incredibly selfish and immature adult, or another adult who continually justifies and makes excuses such ridiculous behaviour?

The hallmark of a truly selfish individual is that they only are about themselves.

So why waste time analysing them? They certainly don't spend so much time thinking of you.

Expat - i'm assuming your comments are directed at me as i don't see beejay or anyone else making excuses for her boyf's behaviour. i didn't say my boyf was continuously justifying his "selfish" actions! Or that he is inherently selfish. I just said i was starting to understand where he was coming from when at the time i couldn't see the wood for trees (prob because of my own self-absorption!)

Our relationship has worked because he has been honest and if that means coming across as selfish sometimes, so be it. (Besides, what's selfish about not being ready to settle down and have a family?) As long as he's not insulting or abusive with it i am happier with that than with someone who does tons for you but is actually resenting it underneath. In tons of ways my boyf has been completely the opposite of selfish, anyway.

Sorry beejay this is turning into a bit of a hijack and probably my boyf is nothing like yours. Yes i agree expat some ppl are inherently selfish and some ppl won't change, and beejay's boyf may be one of them. And a girlfriend who continues to make excuses for them is only going to get hurt ultimately and taken advantage of.

Thanks for all your advice ladies... all of your posts seem to reaffirm my belief that the relationship isn't going to last.

It's a shame because on many levels we are very well suited and have had some great times together.

Oh well back to the drawing board I guess !

Oh and Bourneville your boyfriend doesn't sound anywhere near as selfish/self-centred as mine... I think all relationships have their ups and downs, god I can really behave like a child sometimes , but I am really starting to realise that because of my bf's early childhood experiences his selfishness/self-centredness was been his way of surviving, and that it is too ingrained for him to change.
I feel so sorry for him ( he is really struggling with depression) but I also have my own happiness to think about, and that of my dd's.

So I can't really see what else I can do but end it

Absolutely beejay. Sorry that it's got to end. My boyf has his issues too (mainly to do with being bullied throughout his childhood, has meant he does put on a very defensive front sometimes) but by the sound of it not as ingrained as your boyf's, and he has worked through a lot of those issues. It sounds like your boyf is stuck in a rut and is unlikely to change.

And of course you have to put your dd first. And anyway, ending it might help your boyf in the long run...

Good luck xx