The first relationship after an abusive relationship....

[Inquieta]

I am hoping that posters like Anniegetyourgun and other people who helped me more than any counsellor could ever have helped me are still around about.

My story was a familiar one on the long-running abuse thread (parts one and two) and I thrashed out and understood all the verbal, emotional, physical and financial abuse I'd been subjected to. I left that relationship with two small children and a nappy bag. He attacked me as I walked out the door.

Now, after four years of being almost completely single I've met a man who is the complete opposite to my xh. He is a very good father to his child (unlike my children's father). He doesn't trash his xw although I know there are still things that cause conflict between them. He is quite gentlemanly but not old-fashioned. I like that about him. He pays a lot of maintenance but doesn't seem to grudge it so much that he's bitter about it because he genuinely wants his child to grow up in the area/house they are used to. He's a nice man, older than I am, and he is a quietly clever guy. He's kind of neither attractive nor unattractive. He's affectionate and very calm. I like him. BUT he's not that dynamic. He's also older than I am. I've never gone out with anybody 11 years older than I am before and I'm wondering if it's a low confidence thing, to even be thinking of it. I'm wondering if I'm just feeling comfortable with him because he's the opposite of my horrible xh. Is this normal after an abusive relationship? for the first man you can fathom being with after an abusive relationship to be quite quiet. I feel disloyal typing that. He has a lot of good qualities, but you can't love somebody just because they are 'good' can you?. AT the moment I'm happy to just see where it goes but I feel like if I did that and then turned around to him and said 'thanks, you've re-tuned me now so that I will be more likely to feel chemistry with nice men in the future, thank you very much and goodbye' that would hurt him. He seems much surer than I feel. But that's not my fault is it. You can't limit yourself to only entering a relationship if both parties are exactly equal in their feelings? There is always bound to be a bit of an inbalance isn't there?

I hope some of the old posters are around because I would love to hear what they think. But anybody at all who has an opinion, please advise me! what do you think? What kind of man was your first relationship after an abusive relationship? We spent a lot of time on that old thread talking about red flags and signs and this guy is giving me NO red flags, only green flags. But.... I don't know. Is it the total absence of bad as good a basis for the start of a relationship as any other? I can be quite honest with him btw. I have discussed things with him that were difficult but I did it, and I felt that he did get them.

Just want the opinions of other people who 've been in an abusive relationship really because this seems quite a hard step.

Mathanxiety!! please come and share your infinite wisdom with me.

Hello -- sorry to say I am a post-bad-relationship virgin, but a few things I read there made me think a bit:

(But first, you are braver than me and congratulations for getting out there)

'you can't love somebody just because they are 'good' can you?.

• I think you can like and appreciate them very deeply for being good. This can be the basis of a very positive relationship. I don't think it has to be a case of chills down your spine or drama for a relationship to be sustainable and to make you very happy.

Actually I think a lot of relationships where there is 'drama' are relationships where one or other party is trying on some level to change the other person. If someone has a bad streak it may flatter you to feel you can tame that, or to feel good about yourself because of the belief that he will rein it in for you, because you are special enough to have that effect on him (which is one of the red flags in yourself to watch out for). I suppose the big question to ask there would be 'Am I able to love him the way he is?' or 'Am I wishing he was someone else?' -- 'Do I respect the fact that he is who he is?'. I think it's worth looking really hard at this question. You would like to be loved and respected and appreciated the way you are and he would be too I would think.

Abuse is never a good thing. You can see the way it affects you when you try again and you have that extra layer of caution on top of everything else as you feel your way forward. However, I think if there is one positive that can come out of it it is that you can examine what it was that you were getting out of the former abusive relationship before it all became too much, and try to figure out if there is anything of that left in you when you embark on round 2.

AT the moment I'm happy to just see where it goes but...

• I think that is a good thing, but there is a but attached.

I wonder if you are in some sort of hurry or if you are prepared to see the relationship as a journey that might not have a destination or a deal to seal. If you are in a hurry, ask yourself where you want to go and why you need to get there.

...I feel like if I did that and then turned around to him and said 'thanks, you've re-tuned me now so that I will be more likely to feel chemistry with nice men in the future, thank you very much and goodbye' that would hurt him.

• You can cross that bridge when you come to it. If you are still leaning towards the side of wanting to get closer, get to know him better (and getting to know someone is a lifelong process I believe) then you have the right to do that, without owing him any obligation except to be kind if you find out when you get closer that it isn't right for you for any reason.

'He seems much surer than I feel.
'AT the moment I'm happy to just see where it goes'

• Maybe you want him to be more of a challenge to you? Maybe you think it should be more difficult to make someone like you or love you? Or is it a case of you feeling a bit smothered? I think there is always bound to be a bit of an imbalance but you also need to look at whether the thrill of the hunt is something exciting for you and if so why? Do you want the imbalance to be the other way? Do you need to be the one doing the luring/seducing/attracting and feeling the uncertainty and then the validation of success?

Warning: have not dipped my own toes in the water yet so take with a large dose of salt -- if it doesn't seem to make sense to you, ignore.

Thanks Mathanxiety. It does make sense to me and somebody on the outside can pick up on things you miss yourself. And that's what you've done. You have given me some things to think about there.

Yeah, I can't quite believe that he is "sure" about me. I feel he must have low standards to like me. I have usually chased around after men and been rejected (maybe they were too young, too immature? too handsome!? who knows). But it's a first for me to have a decent guy interested in me and for me not to feel panicky and hemmed in. But I am afraid of hurting HIM. So I can't work out if that means I do have a big opinion of myself or not! You know the legacy of an abusive relationship, you feel a bit worthless, but on the other hand at the same time I believe I might hurt him and I don't want that. His marriage was much more normal until it ended.

I really don't want drama !! and I don't want the effort of having to be seductive and alluring! Sounds exhausting. I haven't felt smothered by him....... but it is really odd to have a man ringing and texting when he says he will and again, something mentioned on the other thread posted by somebody in similar shoes I think, he is NOT pressuring me for sex. In fact, possibly low self-esteem (?) I found this baffling to begin with. Now I like that he's in no rush.

As for respecting him as he is and not wanting to change him.......... hmmm. I do respect him as he is, but I'm not sure I wouldn't liek him to be a little more, a little more,, what is the word? em, charismatic!! oh i am a muppet typing that and worse for feeling it and thinking it.

but the truth is, if he were 'charismatic' then he would be a different person altogether, and I'd have to be seductive and alluring then,,,, [lightbulb]

Maybe you have to look at yourself and see someone who is attractive and loveable and likeable and a person someone would like to be with? Do you believe that it is possible?

X-post there - I think that's what I was getting at.

Inquieta I am in a similar situation after 18 months out of a bad relationship which lasted 28 years. I remember your posts.

I now have a lovely man who is possibly the nicest person I have ever met. We haven't had a single argument in seven months, and he makes me feel calm and safe and happy. His life is a huge muddle, but there is plenty of time to sort it out.
Like you I wonder whether I am finding it all so soothing that I am mistaking the lack of hurt and pain for happiness, or whether this is what a good relationship feels like. He makes me laugh. He teases me, he cuddles me for hours and he tells me every day how wonderful I am. I worry about his low standards and how little he expects of a relationship. But we are making each other happy, there are bunches of green bunting and no red flags, and slowly we are inching towards a possible future together.

I think your last sentence was honest, and not a huge problem. Nobody is perfect, and nobody fulfils your every need. but if he meets 90 percent of them and you are enjoying it then relax and go with it and see where it leads. If his lack of charisma ultimately becomes a problem (and my man has awful dress sense and is horribly untidy!) then you will realise this is not the Forever one and deal with that.

Be happy!

hmmm. I. Well. If every other person in the whole world were suddenly stripped of all THEIR wealth, possessions and qualifications and careers then I would feel the equal of anybody else. Does that make sense? the absolute core of ME, my personality, by 'heart' if you like, my values and beliefs and my physical body & face.... I don't feel any of that is inferior to the average woman. But I guess I do feel a bit ground down socially after all these years of being a 'single mom'. Things have been tight financially and in the last few years have felt a tiny bit marginalised (socially, glossier folks might overlook me, although i do have VERY good friends so I am not complaining really, about a few shallow people). Does this stack up!?

Thank you littleHouseofCamelias. 90% is reasonable I think! not too fussy!

Please forgive me, *Inquieta," as I am not one of the older, wiser posters; simply one who appreciated the help from MN!

You have met a really kind man but it seems that you know that the relationship is going nowhere as he does not fulfil all of your needs.

Best wishes and hope that Mumsnet royalty combine to share their most excellent advice for you!

but what are my needs blowcushion? and can I be the best judge of what my needs are, ykwim? were you in an abusive relationship/? it does really make you doubt yourself. Most people know if it feels right. I am wondering if I would even know that, would right feel wrong!?
But saying that, your comment was actually helpful to me because it provoked a fairly strong reaction in me. Hope that makes sense.

only you can be the judge of your needs, Inquieta! I understand not trusting your own judgement, but there have got to be moments in your life that feel "true", iyswim? Times when you know that it's the real, self-valuing you that is making choices, rather than the you that is clouded by fears and learned dysfunction. IME those moments feel different, and you'll know whether you're acting from a place of confidence, or a place of fear. Fear of getting close to a good person, for example, because that is unknown territory.

I have also found that those of us who are used to abusive relationships can sometimes find good men to be boring, and believe that we simply don't have "chemistry" with them, because the spark of danger that signals an abuser and that we equate with love is not there. Could this be what is going on here?

I don't have any answers per se, I am new to starting the dating process myself..

BUT i did find the initial relationship stuff exhausting as I was on constant Red Flag watch. Every raised eyebrow, every nuance.

I stopped that now, because it was just silly. I can't x-ray every thought and gesture for the next couple of years until I am sure the BF (boyfriend) is not a TF (twatface).

Recovery is in steps. You must learn to love yourself before you can understand that others DO love you, and with good reason.

This guy may not be THE ONE, but he will be a step towards him. The relationship I am in atm, I will have to end shortly. It's not right, he broke my trust and I can't get it back. He's been very nice to me, he finds me attractive etc etc etc, but I can't get past something he thought I did, but clearly I didn't, and he has not apologised for it. He wants to brush it under the carpet. We ALL know where that one goes...

So I have asked someone else out, and I'll do some comparative stuff.

Enjoy yourself, learn, love and laugh. See where it goes.

Ooh, I got namechecked in the OP

I can't help you with this one from the depths of my experience, as I have been triumphantly single for four years now. I think I've just gone off the whole relationship thing. Maybe if I didn't have a houseful of sons keeping me company I'd be a bit more up for it. But if I ever did feel like dating again, an easy-going, undemanding fellow like the one you describe sounds exactly what I'd be comfortable with. I don't have the energy to waste on drama.

So the thing is, are you actually happy with this bloke? You haven't even said. Well, "happy to see where it goes", you said, but that is not the same thing as feeling happy when you are with him. You're all on about what is good about him, and a bit about whether he is good for you, but not on about what is good between you. It's as if you're completely passive in this relationship: should you be allowing it to happen to you. Is this because you are just going along with it as you don't have anything better to do at the moment; or is it pretty great really, but your anxieties are getting in the way of the enjoyment?

You are in effect asking us what you should be feeling about him. But you see, there is no should. If there is no spark but you do enjoy going out with him, why, do that, if it's what you want to do. By the sounds of it yon fellow is old and sensible enough to take it if you never do fall for him in a serious way. In the meantime, if he genuinely cares about you (and is as decent as you believe), he can afford to let you take as long as you need.

As the excellent SGB often points out, you do not owe anyone a relationship. All you owe them, unless they've behaved so badly as to have forfeited the right to it, is kindness and common courtesy. As long as it's working between the two of you, on whatever terms suit you both, well, why not go along with it; if, after a while, it no longer works for you, end it as decently as possible. Nobody knows for certain what's going to work without giving it a trial run.

My advice would be, take things really really slowly, and give yourself lots of time alone to step back from it and work out how you feel, without getting caught up in a whirlwind of "This is so different" "I never knew it could be like this" - because that feeling is amazing :) but can really cloud things for you.

You are not obliged to fall in love with him or settle for him because he is a "good man". I would be wary if you are aware he's more into you than you are into him, because I think it's hard when you're not on the same page. But if you go slowly, you'll be able to judge this better.