Mother-daughter relationships

[Capitaltrixie]

I'm literally going to tear my hair out.

My mum is a nice person & a brilliant grandmother to my 2 LOs, kind and helpful. She is on the whole kind to me, not critical like some mothers can be and is supportive.
On the flip side she can be highly neurotic, constantly disects things & analyses everything, quite negative/judgey about people and was HUGELY overprotective of me and my brother when we were growing up (both me & him are are quite neurotic & anxious, low self-esteem & have terrible relationship histories.. but on whole we're not that bad ha!)

She makes my blood not just boil but the whole of my being practically internally combust. I do feel like the biggest cow on the planet as some people have horrible abusive parents.
I don't blame her for passing on her anxiety & neuroses, I'm big enough to accept resonsibility for my behaviour as an adult and I'm doing my best to break the cycle. She's only human & it's not her fault she's the way she is, why cant I be a nicer better person & not such a cowbag!?!!?!?!?!?

I just wondered if anyone else has had a similar experience of this love-hate dynamic..and can anyone shed some light on how they got a grip on it & moved on to have a good healthy relationship with their mother.

I think, in my case, the 'internal combustion' effect came from being far too close to the subject and - this will sound egoistic - seeing her as an extension of myself rather than an individual. Now I accept that she is who she is, I am who I am, and I try to exercise the same patience that I would with any other random old duck displaying slightly irritating habits. :)

My Mum left us with our Dad [when we were 16, 14 and 12] for another man, she didn't even say goodbye and originally wanted to take just my dsis who was the youngest but my Dad wouldn't let her.While I was still young and up until I had my first ds at 27 I was forgiving of her despite the fact she remained incredibly selfish, I remember begging her to come and see me when I was really ill and she wouldn't, she was worried about bumping into the neighbours. My Dad took her back years later only for her to bugger off again with another man who she later married. I didn't attend the wedding and took a couple of years before I agreed to meet him and he's a very nice man despite his own appalling marital record.My feelings of resentment towards her have grown and now that my own dc are at the age we were when she left I cannot fathom how she could leave us despite our Dad being a fantastic Parent. I am the polar opposite of her and despite loving her as my Mum I don't actually like her if that makes sense.

Hi OP you could have written my story, almost word for word! I really love my mum, she too is a kind, good woman but SO controlling and me and one of my brothers are both on constantly on and off SSRIs for anxiety! As someone said to me recently "you learnt how to be afraid at your mother's knee."

She's old now (81) and I'm 54 but the dynamic is still much the same; she tries to control me and how I raise DD (12) and I just have to let her get on with it because she's not going to change. The only thing I can do is learn how to react to her differently and that, finally, is what I'm able to do. When she says something to wind me up (which is often) I just take a deep breath, pause before I react and then say something like "well, I appreciate that's your opinion but it's not the way I wish to do things."

Just try focussing on her good points and maybe have a bit of sympathy for her - she's probably a product of her own up-bringing.

It's not possible to have healthy relationships with others unless we have a healthy relationship with ourselves and, even if we achieve this particular nirvana, I suspect there'll always be those who manage to press our buttons.

There are reasons why your dm is as she is and, unless she wants or is willing to change and perhaps attend joint counselling sessions with you, there's not going to be a lot you can do to alter the dynamic of your relationship with her.

After a lifetime of 'being her', no doubt your dm's quite happy to bumble along judging and overthinking, and I would suggest that you reach some accomodation with your feelings whereby, as per Cogito's rationale, you simply exercise the same degree of patience and understanding that you hope others are generous enough to practise in relation your own foibiles.

If we haven't already learned the skill, we'll all be random old ducks with the ability to drive the younger generation mad sooner or later

You could be describing my mum! We too have this kind of relationship and I find it really stressful being around her which makes me feel really guilty as she is very good to us and would do anything for us.
I try not to spend too much time with her really and bite my tongue/take a deep breath and not say too much when she goes off on one.
She tells my ds off in front of me and niggles about creased cushions and dropped crumbs an sticky fingers and I have learnt not to react and just try to be a much more relaxed mummy to my kids than she was with me.
I was terrified of upsetting her as a child and would tiptoe around as anything might set her off. She wouldnt give me any freedom and constantly told me off for being naughty which gave me huge self esteem issues. I hate confrontation even now and get shaky when people shout.

So I guess the answer I have found is to say nothing really and accept that it is as it is and she won't change. And i try hard to be a different kind of wife and mother.

Thanks for all your replies ..it helps to know I'm not unique in feeling this way (or that maybe I'm not the worst ungrateful daughter in the world!], I do feel guilty as she is good to us.

You're right..I think being more understanding will help. My mum acknowledges her own foilbles & often says she's too old to change/been like this for too long.

SadSoma I just wondered what worked for you, if you don't mind me asking in terms of SSRIs/therapy

Just fallen out with my brother as he gave me a hard time about me being angry towards my mum. I despair. I genuinely think I can't have a normal relationship with anyone. I try but I manage to mess everything up/piss everyone off. Sorry if that sounds completely self-absorbed and pathetic..I probably am (playing my little violin on my shoulder for myself as I'm typing this ). God I wish I could down a vat of wine right now. Being perky and happy for LOs all day and feeling like complete shit inside is draining.

I could've written the OP too..

My mother is a wonderful, amazing and unique woman who has battled through life to give me and 2 brothers the best start (and I mean battles tooth and nail). However, she's fought every battle for us so as a result, we don't know how to fight for ourselves. Thankfully, I have suffered less so cos I was the youngest and made an early escape, but db's are still very dependant on her (and her 'advice'). Though one is married, both still speak to her every day and though she's never malicious in her words, she loves to rule the roost. It annoys me the way she constantly babies them-and I'm in awe of my SIL who doesn't mind. If DM was my MIL, we'd have had words long ago.

Mostly I humour her 'oh, so that's what I should do Mum? Yes, you're right' cos it's easier than arguing. But her controlling nature sometimes suffocates me. I've tried explaining to her she should let dbs (esp brother no 2 who isn't married) get on with his own life, but he's equally as bad cos he relies so heavily upon her thus encouraging her behaviour.

I think there comes a point where you literally have to say to yourself 'stuff 'em'... and put yourself first. You will feel like a 'complete shit inside' if you're constantly trying to keep people happy because people (I have finally worked out) are never happy!! :) A little bloody-minded selfishness is therefore very liberating. You're allowed to be angry about things that annoy you. You're even allowed to be your real self, warts and all, in front of the kids. You are a mother, not some kind of Butlins Redcoat put on this earth to cheer others up. If your brother wants to give you a hard time and fall out with you that's really his problem, not yours. If you piss other people off despite trying... ditto.

It's my inner grumpy old woman talking but letting go of worrying about other people and making yourself #1 (which is neither self-absorbed nor pathetic) is the only strategy.

Yep I could have written this too! When i see my mum I vow not to be irritated but within 5 minutes I can feel my blood begin to boil then after she's gone I feel really sad and guilty. I'm not sure how it happens she is incredibly passive aggressive and never says what she thinks directly. I find it really hard to spend time with her without feeling annoyed or guilty :(

So you see OP, you are not alone....

As for what has helped my anxiety and low self-esteem, I did mention SSRIs and I've been on and off sertraline for a number of years and it's been wonderful for me - it reduces anxiety significantly and gives me room to breathe. I've had CBT and some counselling on the NHS but it didn't really have a lasting effect. Psychotherapy can be very helpful but takes time and money! I have however done a lot of work on myself, reading loads and trying to understand where all the rubbish came from :)

And ultimately I forgave my mother (and my dad too, he's even more toxic!)
Good luck.

Thank you everyone again..you've all perked me up out of wallowey wallowing and self-flagellation it looks like this is quite a common issue and cause of guilt & uneasiness...

Cogito about people not being happy! god knows in the past I've bent over backwards to make them happy/to be liked (now that IS pathetic). I've always felt guilty about expressing my true feelings (upsetting my mum as I often did as a teenager etc), but keeping them buried is no good as I have quite a volatile temprament naturally. I need to reconcile with myself that it's ok.

That's scarily familiar facejacker, all our battles were fought for us too. Well done on remaining together and strong.

Thanks for the info Sadsoma, I've tried sertraline but gave up due to side effects, I might need another go. And thanks for the luck

mrsscoob - absolutely re: passive agressive

There was so much blimmin subtext & undercurrents all through my childhood, was difficult to know what was real or make sense of relationships. Still can't sometimes.

Ten things I've learned the hard way:

1. It is what it is
2. Shit happens
3. You're damned if you do
4. You're damned if you don't
5. All things must pass
6. Er, that's it so far

HTH.

Op another one here. I can't even begin to count tge number of times I have come back from a shopping trip with my mum and said to my dh why didn't you stop me from going

Dh doesn't alway understand why I can snap as I do and I have been told not to by him on more than one occassion.

It is now a weird situation because my dad passed away 18 months ago and I think he did keep her in check in some circumstances.

It is difficult because as soon as you see them you get drawn into the old mother/child relationship and it is difficult to change. You can see many women on here who are going to be similar with their own DCs in the future because they are massively over protective and over controliling.
You could just try smiling and nodding when she is irritating and say 'really' and change the subject. Let it wash over you and don't partake. She might notice eventually and if she says anything just tell her that you are not going to argue -you are just agreeing to disagree.
If you don't like that you could do what my son has said for years-I' m a big boy now!' Just say ''I'm a big girl now,mother' and change the subject.

How did your brother get to hear that you were angry with your mum OP? Did she complain to him about your behaviour?

Is there a dynamic in your family of your mum playing you and your siblings off against one another, creating conflict between you so that it's not directed at her?

Does she tend to make any conversation or occasion 'all about her'?

Do you feel drained after you've spent time with her?

Do you carry a lot of guilt?

Great list Izzy I can't believe all the neg thoughts I have about myself and this situation..and others are experiencing almost the same!

All that have posted -thank you so so much for sharing (and for the brilliant practical advice on how to deal with it in the moment).
I have felt so long like the black sheep or a freak or just plain bad (I have always had the label or trusted role of the 'emotional/needy/hurtful one' but it's simply not true) it's not an excuse to say its a self fulfilling prophecy...but around dc, friends, work colleagues & dh's big family I'm absolutely fine!!

In answer to your q's, my mum told my brother on the phone that we fell out. He relies on her a lot and IMO doesn't have a very balanced view. She always talks to him about me & they deduce I'm bad/unbalanced/ungrateful cowbag etc. 'I think she should be on meds'... 'she's so angry' 'why is she so angry' 'whats going on in her relationship' etc. Last time dh dropped off the children, she took him aside for a word about me. If I dont share everything about my life with her she gets upset that I'm withdrawing from her, but I'm too old to want (or need!) to share every detail of my life with her. We get on on her terms, best of all when I'm upset & tell her everything about my life & she can say there there. God she gets under my skin! I'm 34, mum to 2 lovely dc and feel like I'm going through some sort of teenage rebellion!!

Sternface my mum liks to be the martyr always doing things to help, but if I try & talk to her about our relationship logically & rationally with no blame, it always end up being about how hurt she is and I feel guilty. I am always drained after I see her, even if we haven't had words.

choklit that sounds really rough, sounds like you've done really well

My Mum isnt like any mentioned so far , I suppose more the opposite in that she has never interfered in my life, been controlling etc.

It has taken me having my own DC and therapy to realise though that she was too hands off ie to the point of indifference and has never been warm or told me she loves me or is proud of me.

I think too that my DB and I are blamed for some difficult financial years when she was bringing us up on her own , I have heard on a number of occasions how in "those days" people werent interested in employing a woman with young children. What is clear to me now is that actally she had no desire to work doing anything much less a career and it has been convienient to blame us for that rather than be honest about it.

Over the years she has pulled a few stunts which are certainly not newsworthy but I have come to realise she is actually an emotionally detached, quite selfish woman who is so self contained that nothing much is of importance to her outside of her own intellectual pursuits .

Unfortunately I struggle to keep my mouth shut when she make some nasty remarks about her various pet hates and have begun to speak out a bit but shes unmoved ! My situation isnt helped by the fact she lives abroad so either I never see her or its 4 days straight and this feast or famine makes it worse

Having said all that she did do her best bringing us up and has been ok about some things including more support through my divorce than I might of predicted. I wish I could just go back to those long years where I thought the sun shone from her and I get upset when I think about how differently I feel now

I thought you'd answer yes to most of those questions. Your brother needs her more than he needs you and so he is competing to be the favoured child. That's his motive. Your mum will do all she can to stop you and your brother collaborating and getting on in case you join forces against her. That's her motive.

It takes a long time to process these dynamics and get to the point where she is no longer able to make you feel guilt. You might find that you keep trying to speak to her rationally about her behaviour in the hope that she will change, but I'm afraid with people like this, they will never change. She will always go on the defensive and the counter-attack and you'll end up feeling worse. Then your brother will have a go at you for upsetting her.

The best way of dealing with her is the following:

1. Look up narcissistic personality disorder. Once you understand what you're dealing with, it really does help to deal with it.
2. Make sure your DH and your friends act as a team with you. People like your mum love to divide and rule and she's already trying to get your husband to doubt you.
3. Protect your children, because she'll start on them soon. Challenge anything disagreeable she says in front of them and be open with them about her personality issues (in an age-appropriate way) Be very careful about how much time she spends with them on her own. Try to restrict it.
4. If you must have a relationship with her, give yourself permission to make it very superficial. Don't get drawn into any heated discussions and ration your time with her.
5. Assert yourself with your brother. Point out calmly that he experiences her behaviour differently, but you are an adult now and know from your other good relationships that your mother has a problem. Tell him you're not willing to be part of the unhealthy family dynamics any longer. If you have a disagreement with her and he tries to berate you, tell him to mind his own business as the conflict is with her, not him. Erect boundaries with him and tell him firmly to butt out.

It's a fact that we're often our own worst enemies and can beat ourselves up far more effectively than anyone else can.

In situations where we haven't actively set out to hurt, it's my belief that we should be kind to ourselves before we think about being kind to others.

'The family' can be a source of comfort and joy, but it can also be a tyranny which seeks to suppress freedom of thought and alienate dissenters.

Go easy on yourself, trixie. As is evident here, and elsewhere on this board, you're not the only one who suffers needless guilt trips caused by family members. The emphasis is on 'needless', honey - don't let buggers get you down

OP- are you my daughter?

I read this thread with interest. Blowcushion, you seem to identify with the OP's mother. A brave confession!

Can us daughters pick your brains? What is it like being the mother in this situation?

And what makes you feel that your daughter has this fury towards you? Is it justified?