question...

[glub]

would you forgive your mum for making you live with a dad who from being an adored dad turned into one who decided to not have anything to do with you anymore?

i had started talking back a bit when i was about seven. and if my dad was around i would get rapped on the head for it. i didn't like it and thought it was wrong and so decided not to speak to him anymore. i thought he'd at least try to speak to me. he didn't. he instead decided that he would leave me entirely to my mum. over the years i sometimes tried to make things up with him. it would last about an hour before he'd snarl something at me (eg if i dared to ask what was for dinner by way of making conversation) and i'd run off in tears.

mother became fond of calling herself the 'piggy in the middle'. she says she thought about getting a flat for the two of us but didn't as i had said i liked my bedroom.

living there like that for 18 years has affected me greatly and i'm yet again depressed right now.

someone asked me recently if i was close to my mum, and i realised that i had not forgiven her for this and one other thing. people talk about forgiving and moving on or else staying bitter. i hadn't thought about it or felt bitter i just happened to have a mum who i might speak to regularly but would never be close to or confide in.

is not taking me out of that situation forgivable?

I think you have to decide whether to forgive your mum for her mistake. Because that's what it was.

Forgiveness is entirely in your gift and not for anyone else to decide. As for your mother's actions, you've only to see how many women on MN opt to stay with horrible men 'for the sake of the children' and how abusive relationships can trap others into a state of inertia. Easy for people on the outside looking in to say 'get the hell out' but victims often make up their own lame excuses why not... you liking your bedroom being a good example.

Staying bitter and blaming her doesn't sound like it's helping much. Depression is a clinical problem which can happen to anyone, regardless of their upbringing. Perhaps talking to her about what really happened, asking the questions that are bothering you and taking the opportunity to express your anger might be more constructive.

thank you for answering. it's not because of my parents that i am depressed right now though.

but isn't it neglect? i'm just asking for your opinions so as i might be a bit more objective about this

Failing to protect your child is pretty indefensible but I think, if you want get something positive out of your mother, it has to be taken in context. If she was as big a victim of his abuse as you were, blaming her will mean she clams up... it's probably her default setting. When she talked about getting a flat for the pair of you it sounds like she knew it was a mistake to stick around but, for whatever reason, opted to do just that. I'd want to know 'why didn't you get me away from him?' and see what she says.

I think your mother genuinely felt like piggy in the middle. I think it must have been horrible for her. I think your father is an arse. All small children idolise their parents, this is hard-wired into us from birth and is not a rational or meaningful choice on the child''s part. You were a smart little girl to realise her dad was wrong at the age of seven - and, at only seven, you can't be blamed for trying to manipulate the situation because you knew no better. It must have hurt a lot.

Now, I understand how your mother felt but that doesn't alter the fact that her choices hurt you, her child. This is quite a complicated thought to get your head round - and getting to grips with it is essential for healthy forgiveness, the kind that will help you. I couldn't have done it without therapy, but everybody's different. It most likely will be beneficial to your depression if you can identify and admit to yourself how your pain and disappointment at your father's behaviour has affected you growing up.

It definitely is possible to have this conversation with a bad mother, who was cowed by a bad husband. I've done it. She's very unlikely to say you're right and she's terrible, etc, because she did the best SHE could do under difficult circumstances - clearly not he best that ever could have been done, but the best this particular woman could do, with the particular life she had. She cannot erase history or write off the most significant part of her own life ... wouldn't it be cruel to demand that? But, with some care and detachment, you may get the empathy and apology you want. If you don't - well, it's a pity but you'll know you did your best.

Have a read of the first page of a Stately Homes thread, there's excellent advice on this very task :) Good luck!