Advice on moving on.......and THANK YOU.

[Marie229]

I?m not sure if any of you remember me, but I wrote a post in the beginning of March about how I really wanted my relationship to work. It was a rather lengthy post-> ?www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1418674-I-really-want-this-to-work?

Anyway, when I posted in March, I was at my breaking point, and I wasn?t sure what to expect as far as responses. A few of you connected with me, though, and I began to understand myself in ways that I hadn?t really considered previously (e.g., the effects of having a bpd mother and an abusive childhood).

I haven?t talked to my bf (now ex) for about a month. He stopped emailing me and asking me to forgive him because I quit responding. I?m still grieving the break-up. I?m having a really hard time with it all, actually, but I will not go back to him. I?ve decided that I won't, and I won?t. Currently, I?m going to counseling every week with a BPD specialist (three hours away round trip, but I?m committed to it). Every week, I continue to unravel how significantly my childhood experiences have affected my adult intimate relationships. I feel like I?m making good progress and on the right track.

A startling finding is that my therapist feels that my ex has ocpd. He showed me the DSM criteria for ocpd, and my ex fits the description almost perfectly. The revelation was, as I said, startling. I had spent 18 years of my life living in hell with a bpd mother, yet I had been planning to spend the rest of my life with a man who also has a pd. How did I let that happen? I was/am shocked.

A few of you (who I really came to respect) suggested that I remain single for the next year in order to work on myself. Believe me, I?m in no frame to start dating right now, but I feel a lot of anxiety about waiting that long. I feel a bit crazy right now, actually. I still cry throughout the week because I miss my ex. Also, as I said, I realize I?m just starting to understand the effects of my childhood. But there are also times when I feel that I need to move on in order to heal. Some of you suggested new hobbies. I already take care of my house, garden, work full-time, walk my dog, read novels, exercise, do yoga, etc.

My point is that I keep busy, and I do feel good at times. But I also really want to find a partner. I?d like to think that I?d be well enough to consider dating in a couple months? Please give me your opinions on my current situation. No need to praise me for making changes. I know I did the right thing. It was/is hard as hell, but I?m proud of it. I really want your opinions on what I should do now to keep myself together. At times, I?m still struggling, and I feel a bit depressed (at times). You see, I seem to alternate between feelings of optimism and feelings of sadness over this break-up from my long-term bf whom I still love. I?d like to continue with my therapy, but I also find myself entertaining the idea of moving on sooner rather than later. Then, I feel guilty for wanting to move on when I still love and care for my ex. My therapist suggested this is a coping mechanism I?ve developed to deal (or to not deal, rather) with pain. He feels that I did this as a child to cope with an abusive mother and an absent father. I?d really appreciate all of your opinions/ real life experiences on how to deal with this anxiety/pain.

Also, I?d like to thank so many of you who responded to my previous post. I sincerely believe some of your responses opened my eyes and, as a result, saved me from months/years/possibly a lifetime of bad relationships. I re-read your posts every time I start to feel like I could go back with my ex and make things work (yes, there are still those times). I really connected with you, oikopolis, specifically, and also garlicbutter and swallowedafly. I consider you all like very dear friends who supported me in a very difficult week of my life.

Thank you.

Rather than dating why not simply get yourself a social life where you get to interact and make friends? 'Dating' is such a one-way street whereas building a circle of friends and finding common interests with people of both sexes is a great way to crush the loneliness you're feeling without any of the strings and pitfalls. 'Moving on' when you're still weak could just mean going from frying pan to fire without having really had a chance to experience life as a strong, independent, happy, confident version of you. Value yourself fully,relish your independence and you'll be far more reluctant to give either up so easily in future.

you dear dear woman, i've thought about you often and i'm so glad to read your post today.

i knew that things were going to change for you - that they were already changing for you - by the time your last thread came to an end. i am not surprised at all that you've made such progress. thank goodness the therapist was helpful. that was actually my only concern for you, that he might be shit, and might set you back by confusing you.

well done you wonderful girl :) such strength and fortitude, despite what other people have put you through.

i can understand the dreadful rollercoaster you're on right now, it really is hard to stomach sometimes. you are in the throes of grief, this is what it's like when someone dies too, just as intense and draining.

i can only offer you my personal and non-professional opinion, that the best thing to do when it comes to grief is to let it really wash over you before you try to bring a new person into your life.

in my experience,
when you try to take a detour during a grieving and healing process,
you are only going to be led back to that process, again and again and again and again and again, until you stop taking the detour, and realise that the only way out is through.

again, i have been there. the same relationship replaying itself in endless variations. it's already happened twice for you - Mom, and then ex-bf - i don't want you to go through that again.

the best thing i can say is, engage your ability to delay gratification for now. there is a better goal than short-term succour, and that's long-term peace and joy.

when the up-and-down smoothes out, when things seem to have calmed considerably and you're starting to enjoy being with yourself, alone... THAT will be the sign that it's perhaps time to welcome someone new into your life.

whatever you decide though, the ladies (and gents) here will still offer you support & encouragement. and the occasional kick in the arse ;)

great advice from cogito too.

i always had weird/distant relationships with other women, because of my bad start with my own mother. perhaps you have too? i've found it really healing to work on building a circle of female friends, with a few platonic male friends thrown in where appropriate.

I think perhaps, it's a bit like the advice that people give to the bereaved along the lines of not to move house or make any other big changes in the first year after a bereavement. It's the same with starting a new relationship too soon.

FWIW, I started seeing dh about 6 months after splitting up with the man who I'd been with for 6 years and been engaged to and had thought was the love of my life. He wasn't, and I felt a complete failure for it not working. He was a selfish narcissist, so there was nothing I could have done. DH has told me that I talked about him a lot in the first few months.

For that reason, if nothing else, I think it may have been too soon, so I think that's why people say to wait a year.

My social life has been pretty non-existent since I started dating my ex over 3 years ago. He was very insecure, and, as a result, controlling, and I tried to please him. I gave up my male, platonic friends because he felt threatened by them.

I had always had a lot of friends in the past, but I've always been more of the friend you tell your problems to, rather than the friend who brings her problems to you. So, even though I had a lot of friends, I think it prevented close bonds within relationships. I tend to be rather private and protective of my own thoughts/experiences, which, I've found, is consistent of someone with a f'd up childhood. I have a best friend at work, but our lifestyles don't really mesh. She's married with two dc, and I'm single with no dc.

Your advice is probably really good.

I really don't think I know how to experience the pain. I don't know that I've ever done it before? I think I've always pushed it aside and carried on with my life. That's what I'm struggling with. I don't know how to feel this way. I don't know how to love my ex and accept that we can't be together anymore. It's like I want to sweep the pain and negative parts of the relationship under the rug and feel numb just as long as we can be together. Or, I fantasize about moving on and finding someone new.

Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but I'm not understanding how I'm supposed to get over this if I don't move on? You said I have to go through the grief. What does that mean? Just let myself experience it?

My therapist said something similar to me about how I'm separating my emotions and thoughts instead of integrating them. I don't think I understand what I'm supposed to do to feel whole.

i also mostly had those sorts of friendships. where i was the shoulder to cry on, but in a way that prevented real closeness.

I'm not understanding how I'm supposed to get over this if I don't move on? You said I have to go through the grief. What does that mean?

i see what you're struggling with now. yes, you are right, i mean you need to let yourself experience it.

you see the phrase "moving on" doesn't mean starting a new relationship; it means moving on psychologically, so that you're "whole again" and ready to try with a new person. this definitely includes letting the grief happen so you don't drag it with you into the next relationship.

Going through the grief means something different to every person. i will tell you how i "get through" and maybe you can try some of these things and see how they feel.

• above all recognising that the pain of a breakup = the pain of a brain that has to break a bad habit. not a sign of anything cosmic, not a sign i've done the wrong thing... but instead, i am just like any other addict, breaking my addiction and hoping that this time around, i will not pick up another substance/person to "get me through".

• accept and make peace with the pain, let it happen, don't be afraid of it. sometimes look at it and try to find out where the pain comes from. it almost invariably comes from fear: what have i lost? how badly will the loss affect me? will i be able to carry on? what will i do? how will i have to change? write down any insights.

• alternate long stretches of "keeping busy"/being with friends with shorter times when you stay with the pain and let yourself feel it. not in a "OMG how will i ever cope" way, but in a "this is real, i am going through this and i'm determined to be a better person for it" way.

• have a short (sometimes long!) cry most days. recognise the crying is like the washing of a very raw wound that needs a lot of care and attention. the tears are good and healthy. my body (not just my mind) is grieving and by letting it grieve, i'm caring for myself. also, not avoiding crying. not punishing or berating myself for crying. acknowledging that crying = health, not weakness etc.

• recognise that the emotional pain of healing is "good" pain. it's like a healthy labour. it has a reason, and it's not permanent. to try to avoid it is like trying to avoid allowing a baby to be born, it's going to happen so i need to accept that, and care for myself through it. so i do: long baths, massages, playing with the dogs, favourite foods, books, films, all my favourite things.

• some days, just accepting that it's a bad day, but the bad feelings aren't permanent and that i can bear them. being proud of myself for getting through bad times. recognising that each bad day = me stronger than i was the day before.

it sounds weird but try to think of yourself like an addict. you are addicted to a relationship cycle that you use to prevent you from feeling pain and grief that originates in your childhood. maybe you are afraid that everyone is like your Mom... so you're always looking for a new person to allay that fear. or it could be something more complex than that.

the answer to this is to let that pain come out, name it, look at it closely, get to know it, and recognise when you're feeling it. once you do that, it no longer has any power over you. you'll no longer have to run from it. you'll realise it's not even a realistic fear! the monster becomes a mouse.

that means that in your next relationship, you can actually have a REAL relationship, where it's just about you and him. not your Mom, not your fear of abandonment/judgement/conditional love, not his either. just a peaceful and joyful partnership where you love each other for who you are in the present moment.

(imagine such a lovely thing... a r/s with no fear!)

don't worry about "how to become whole". just focus on being very very gentle with yourself, and it will all come together in the way it should.

Yes, this is exactly what I was asking.

I'm leaving work now. I'll think about this more and respond later.....TY.

no worries love, hope you find some insight as you think it over.

can I recommend a book called 'the courage to grieve' judy tatelbaum (?) on amazon. good luck with it all and keep posting on MN too

The thing about advice (I've realized on here especially) is that sometimes I recognize the wisdom of another person in myself and know it to be true. Then, I can't deny it (no matter how much I want to) when someone else is validating that part of me.

Describing "pain" as a wound or an addiction is ingenious! I think I'm doing better in regard to looking at my pain, understanding my fears, etc. Where I get off track is that I expect it to be healed or sobered far quicker than a wound or addict could ever be healed or sobered. Yes, you've revealed that to me quite brilliantly. I'm not making peace with anything. I'm trying to understand it, yes, but I'm trying to rid myself of it, too, and that's just not working.

Also, I mentioned some of my activities/interests and ways of keeping busy. It never occurred to me how all of my interests and ways of keeping busy are completely solitary and not the slightest bit social. I do all of those things by myself (or with my dog). How I didn't realize that is beyond me. My therapist and I were just talking last week about how it seems I try to solve all of my problems myself (another coping mechanism). Yet I failed to make the connection that all of my free time is spent alone.

Last week, I signed back up for facebook and started talking to some old friends who I'd lost touch with. You see, my ex was uncomfortable with me having facebook, so I had deleted my account to ease his insecurity. I'd been completely disillusioned into thinking that my relationship with him was all that I needed to be happy.

Yes, I really do need to get back to being a more social person. And I need to make peace with this pain.

Thank you again!

I'll look into the book now....Thanks.

hi marie

just quick 'thoughts':

love/relationships has been your 'runaway' from yourself. you are getting to know yourself, face your 'stuff' and now that instinct to want to be with someone is kicking in - imo it's just the runaway instinct.

mine was literally running away - grand schemes, move to another town, go travelling, live in another country for a year, new career, etc. eventually i had to stop and stay still and look the runaway schemes and compulsive urges when they came - as in sit them out and look at them square in the face for what they were. now, i hope, that my next change and move back into life/work/etc will be an authentic process and progress rather than a lurch away from myself itms?

you've said yourself you don't know how you managed to go from one PD parent and hell and yet manage to end up with a partner who was PD and go through hell, and be willing to stay in that hell in the name of 'love'. you're not ready imo to be finding a 'partner' when you still don't understand that let alone feel strong and clear and loving enough towards yourself to not do it again.

i also think you know this.

i think perhaps you do have to look at this like an addiction. you've been swamped over and over by other people's emotions, needs, unhealthy 'stuff' - perhaps to the extent it seems normal, good, real, being alive-ish. there's also the reality that that has maybe interfered with your ability to create a real sense of self, this is me, this is where i begin and where i end, these are my boundaries, this are my feelings, thoughts etc because of that space being encroached by the 'other'. maybe having to fully occupy that space yourself, instead of someone else flooding it, feels lonely but i think you need to learn to occupy that space and own it and deal with those feelings rather than just fill it with someone else again and in all likelihood pick someone willing to fill it - which will be another person without healthy boundaries/with funny 'stuff'.

as i said just thought so sorry if it's babble or irrelevant.

really good to see you back and to hear you've stayed away from mr headfuck x

Wow - oikopolis and Swallowed - just wow!

That sums up so much that I've not really understood about myself and am trying to go through the process at the moment. Very very helpful stuff. I will read this over again (and again).

marie - hope you find it helpful too and good luck with everything.

Yes, that made perfect sense, saf. I think you're right about this, actually. It's crossed my mind to go back to college and change careers and to even move somewhere new. See, I had decided I wouldn't make any rash decisions after this breakup since I am emotional, but I wasn't making the connection of how it was another form of preventing myself from knowing myself. I thought it was just me being unhappy in my life. But, you're right, it's actually me being uncomfortable with myself.

Still, this all seems a little strange in that I've always seen myself as independent and comfortable with being alone. So, it's not actually the physical aloneness I'm struggling with. I think it's the putting myself first that I'm struggling with and knowing what's important to me.

So how did you solve your issues of running away from yourself? You said you had to sit still and look at them in the face. What does that mean? Did you do something similar to oikopolis?

I won't be able to reply again until much later....

it meant not running away - as for you it would mean not getting into another relationship now i guess. just not doing what you normally do in order to create the time and space for what it is that needs to change/shift/grow. i don't know of any shortcuts from my experience i'm afraid. you're in therapy so no doubt that helps but it also needs time - whatever you do in therapy or through actively learning and working on yourself is great BUT time is an absolutely vital ingredient of any real change or growth or whatever you want to call it.

i remember being hugely frustrated that my first level counsellor training course was going to take two whole years. by a year in i realised it was really important that it was a slow process because i wasn't just learning about, grabbing knowledge etc but actually having to integrate it and really deepen my understanding of me and life and people and..... other vague words. it needed time, it needed life to happen around and to me alongside it for... the process.

now i've had a few years since then and i'm going back to my training in autumn and it will be another 2 years and god knows what will happen in that time or how much i'll learn but the two will go hand in hand - what i'm learning there and what is happening in my life and with me will interact.

not sure this is relevant to you or i'm making much sense. but yeah, no short cuts or magic tricks.