To the females out there who have sisters - is this normal? Sorry, long and meandering

[Nevertooearlyforcake]

I've just had a furious row come off the phone with my mum. We have essentially no relationship, it's the first time I've spoken to her this year, but it is actually slightly better than it was before I had DCs as she is interested in them. She is extremely emotionally manipulative and suspects everyone as having some form of hidden agenda. I actually feel really sorry for her but she absolutely feels her view of the world is the correct one - if the world really is the way she thinks it is then it's horrible place as are 99% of the people in it.

Anyway, to get to the point. Apparently my relationship with her is so bad because I don't have a sister (as my mum did). Essentially her view is that two (or more) sisters compete for their mothers attention and therefore I wouldn't be able to 'get away with' acting as I do if i had a sister rather than a brother. I won't have this 'problem' she says as I have two DDs who will therefore compete for my attention.

The idea that my DDs would feel under pressure in that way makes me feel very sad. My DM's underlying tone was that she would have found this kind of competition desireable in some way which makes me feel a bit sick as for me it feel like a sign of insecurity in your children and not something to strive for!

My DM had a sister and she (DM) is the most insecure person I know. However she never reflects on her own behaviour or acknowledges any part her own actions may have played in any negative event. She does allocate a huge amount of credit to herself in certain cases, for example she wrote an anonomous to the local paper about an issue of pedestrian safety and at some point after this a change was made to improve this in the local village. All due to one unsigned letter - and nothing to do with the local council lobbying for it for years. I know this sounds very trivial but she's been claiming this for 20 odd years and she was waffling on about it as an example of her amazing clearsightedness which therefore meant her view about the sister thing was also correct .

I have never, in nearly 40 years, heard her admit to being wrong about anything. For decades I've made sure I'm not in a position where she can apply any emotional leverage. When my DB's DP was pregnant with her first DG, she just ignored it, for nine months (and after three years of TTC which she was aware of) even when DSIL was standing in front of her heavily pregnant. When my DB eventually tried to force an acknowledgement by asking her how she felt about it she just said "oh, I'm passed all that" and changed the subject. Then when my DB called to tell her and my DF (who has since died) that her DGS was born - at half seven in the morning and she had been told the baby was imminent - before he could say anything, if the baby was ok, she said "I'll get your father" and disappeared from the line.

My gut reaction is the sister thing, or at least the perception of it as desireable, isn't normal. Am I wrong - do you think it's a good thing if your DDs felt like this and would be beneficial to you relationship.

I have two sisters, one older and one younger. We probably did compete for attention, along with our brother (I still think he got it easy but no longer resent it) but that was just because there's only 7 years between the oldest and youngest. Now we are all grown-ups, it's really not an issue.

Your mum is talking bollox, and probably not for the first time?

She sounds quite insane. It's more likely that she feels it's harder to manipulate you these days and, searching around for a reason why you aren't sufficiently desperate for her attention, has landed on this. It's the sort of crazy shit my mother comes out with now and then. We just nod and smile.

I've got lots of siblings. Of course we competed for attention as children - as you'll know yourself, kids have no option on that unless their mother is capable of being all over the place at once, like an electron! It doesn't carry over into adult life (at least, not normally!) - one would hope an adult has her own life without needing to constantly reference a parent, and is also capable of negotiating her relationships.

It sounds as though your grandmother set her daughters against one another, so as to keep herself at the apex of a family triangulation. It sounds as though your mother feels she should have done the same.

Ignore her. Nod and smile

I have a sister. I don't recall particularly "competing for attention" and in fact I didn't get on all that well with my mum, my sister did far more because they were more alike in character and things they enjoyed. I am much more like my Dad.

Your mother is talking shite because she knows you have no point of reference (ha! Except us) with which to tell her she's talking shite. As if it's YOUR fault you have no sister! In essence she's blaming her serious deficits as a mother on you - which is bollocks.

I wouldn't pay any attention to her cod psychology - she's just using it as another stick with which to beat you. Ignore - it's the best thing you can do.

I have a twin sister, I think I'm right in saying neither have us have ever felt the need to "compete" with each other for DM's attention. On the other hand my DP and his brother are very competitive with their mother, who's always taking pains to treat them completely equally. Poor woman! It's not about gender, more to do with your mum trying to find a reason for your lack of closeness that doesn't reflect badly on her or her parenting skills. Don't engage with her crackpot ideas, just nod and go "yes, mum" and be happy in the fact your DD's have a great DM themselves

Well I have lots of sisters and my mother carries on just like yours so that blows that theory.

I think your mum is nuts and no amount of "if you had a sister it wouldn't be like this" is going to change it.

i have a younger sister and i must say, we never competed for much. we were and are very different. she was into sport and doing well at school, i didn't give a stuff. i was social and boy-crazy, she was shy and cultivated a large circle of female friends. i never really sought the attention of my parents, whereas she did, and she got it. esp from my mother! this was also because she was my DM's baby, which is fair enough. i was older and always much more independent.

i made my DM's life a living hell when i was a preteen and teenager; my sister was an angel. so certainly having two daughters certainly did nothing at all for our family dynamic.

my mother is herself one of several sisters. and again, two of the sisters have never been the types to want the attention of their DM. but the youngest did, and got it. the middle one was a hellraiser, my DM just opted out i think.

you can find all sorts of family dynamics in families of all types.

just ignore your mother and don't seek out her opinion about anything. she sounds like a crazy old bat.

I have a sister. We never compete - but that's because we banded together early on, since all the adults in our lives growing up were dysfunctional, self-absorbed nutters. We relied on each other rather than on them for love.

Have you looked at the Stately Homes thread, or looked up narcissistic personality disorder? It may give you some insight into your mother's behaviour.

What your mother is saying to you is really horrible, when you think about it: She grew up with insecurities that affect her to this day because of the way she feels she was compared to her sister, and now she wishes the same for you, to "put you in your place", with herself in the role of judge.

She knows how much this hurt, and she wishes to inflict the same hurt on her child.

Lovely motherly sentiments there.

You really might find helpful insights in Stately Homes/NPD research, like I said.

I have 2 sisters, one who is 15 months older and the other is 3 years older (also have an older brother, I'm the youngest) and I honestly can't remember 'competing'. We had a good childhood, apart from dad being a total prick, but we all have a healthy relationship with mum and eachother. We all have our quirks, but overall, we stick by one another.

There is evidence supporting different theories on the order of siblings etc but it's not conclusive and doesn't got to explain things really in full. Your mum sounds a touch 'woo' tbh

Your mum sounds awful. I wish I could share mine with you! I have a sister, we are very close and haven't competed before for our mums attention. We don't have to, she has plentyof love to go round for all of us.
It doesn't sound like you need that kind of mum in your life. I feel awful for you.

DD's biggest insecurities arise out of competition... with her brothers.
I did have a foster sister, no bio. My mother also accused me of being a "princess" & similar things, OP. She was just being emotionally manipulative. Any excuse would do.

This whole sister issue is a red herring. Don't expend any more energy thinking about it.

The problem here is your damaged, toxic mother. You have absolutely the right idea by only talking to her once or twice a year. Keep her at arm's length. Close your ears to her shit. Have you had counselling?

I have sisters, I find them very useful as a buffer against my mother, so I largely ignore my mother and my mother has my sisters to complain about me...

I also have two DD's don't think either competes for my attention, they have eachother to keep them occupied. But then I dont play them off against eachother, we're a team.

I have a younger sister (18 months younger) and while she will say we never had to compete I say we have because for as long as I can remember I have never been quite good enough. I have had alot of mental health problems as I became an adult due, in part, to this.

I now have a DD and am considering never having another so she never has the slightest opportunity to feel like I did even once.

I think your mother is completely wrong to project this scenario as being the ideal!

My mother is crap and not interested in me. She is the same with one sister but totally favours the other. Sisters or none, a crap mother is a crap mother. She is talking through her arse. Sounds to me like she just regrets not being able to manipulate you more but playing you off against someone. Tell her to piss off. She doesn't sound capable of giving you or anyone else love. If she says it again just say, 'Another daughter for you to neglect and abuse mum? Why is one not enough?'

I think your mum sounds mental! FWIW I have one sister, we did compete as children and argued a lot too. Mainly my sister got on better with my mum as she was more 'sporty' and less academic, and my mother basically used me as a scapegoat for a bit. However she now doesn't have any contact with our mum for various reasons (including that she was abusive, not to a great extent but definitely physically and maybe emotionally, when we were children and teenagers). So that pretty much blows the theory out of the water because the whole 'competing for affection' thing meant that the one who got more affection then decided it was unhealthy for her. I still have contact with my mum but just leave it if she starts getting like this- she has helped me with things as an adult, and I have tried to be supportive to her too, but you have to draw a line and not let her cross it iyswim or she will think she can treat you however for your entire life. I feel like it is a bit mean, unless there is severe abuse, to cut off contact completely when there are grandchildren (my sister hasn't got kids so not an issue there) but your mental health has to come first! As it is my mum gets on really well with my daughters, however I do keep an eye that there is no pushing issues on to them and I avoid being emotionally manipulated just by not answering my phone when I feel I can't cope with it (caller ID is your friend here).

Have to point out that it really does make me feel a bit sick when women of that generation put all these expectations onto just daughters, when they were supposed to be the feminist vanguard or whatever- just because your brother is male doesn't mean he has no family responsibilities.

God, actually, I take it back about your brother having responsibilities to her. She does sound like she's being sexist but if I was your brother after that reaction to his child being born, I wouldn't be talking to her either. FFS. What a cow. Sad for you OP. I'm sure your daughters will be fine though, you sound self aware and all that stuff that is useful.

I'm very sorry to hear about your sister, dumdedoodah. That must have been dreadful.

Brilliant posts as usual HotDAMN :)

As everyone has said, your mum is making it up to suit her own ends.

I am one of four - I competed as a child (& probably still do ) with one brother (nearest me in age). Me & my sister are closest out of all the siblings, and we gang up against my mum My brother is the most competitive of all of us but a LONG streak.

Surely any decent parent would see siblings to support each other rather than compete?

My mother and her sister were absolutely devoted-best friends who shared holidays and cofidences.Auntie was devastated when Mum died.I was an 'only' as my dad had MS.Mum and Auntie always said,'Every woman needs a daughter and every girl needs a sister'.
It should make me sorry for my dd who has a brother and 2 gorgeous ds's but I think that it is the essential nature of a person which creates the family dynamic and not the makeup of the family.My dd is a contented,loving daughter,sister,mother and wife.

I have younger sisters and I can't remember competing. I don't know if they'd say the same thing. I hope so.

Your mum is just talking nonsense I think.

I have sisters and not a good relationship with my mother...

I have a younger sister who I no longer speak to since she told me that if my now DH and I had a child together it would be disgusting and that if she was given it to hold she'd drop it....preferably on its head and as if that wasn't bad enough she told my DF (who I am very close to) that DH was violent. My sister and DH have met 4 times and said about 10 words to each other not to mention the fact I'm more likely to be violent than DH! My DB had to emigrate in order to have a relationship that wasn't destroyed by our sister. She is vile.

My DM thinks the sun shines out of her arse..............there's no accounting for taste!

I have three brothers and no sisters and my relationship with my Mum is very good - what siblings you may or may not have has nothing to do with the relationship that you have with your parents. Well, I say that but of course it makes a difference because each member of the family reacts differently depending on circumstances and relationships.

But essentially I think that your Mum is trying to find an excuse for her behaviour and it's an excuse that can't be changed because she can't have any more children so it's no her fault!