Please comment on the top 5 pros and cons of my relationship and tell me yours.

[aprilrain]

Pros:

1. We genuinely love each other
2. We've been together 20 years
3. He is kind to me
4. He accepts me for who I am
5. We make each other laugh

Cons:

1. He is an alcoholic and acknowledges it but does nothing to help himself recover
2. He has no direction, no permanent job, earns very little in the little work he does do, but does nothing to seek work or find a new direction. (Complains about it constantly though)
3. He is addicted to his phone / computer / iPad and would rather play games on them than interact with me and our dc
4. He is very short tempered with the dc to the point where everything he says seems to be negative some days
5. We have large and crippling debts which we are both responsible for creating and neither of us seems able to deal with this problem head on.

Trying to decide if the pros outweigh the cons. Or vice versa

Being together 20 years isn't really a pro, it's just a fact. You say he is kind to you, but then you say he doesn't interact, is short tempered and won't seek help for his alcoholism. Those things don't strike me as kind.

Are you thinking of leaving him?

Hi aprilrain Just didn't want you to think no-one was listening. FWIW I would say based on what you've written that the cons currently outweigh the pros, BUT if you do geniuinely love each other then he should be willing to take steps to address his alcoholism (which is probably contributing to poor job situation, temper and debts). Have you tried suggesting counselling (if not for him, for you as a couple, as I can't imagine that live in general is particularly happy from what you describe). You also need to speak to a debt advisor (together)

Be prepared for lots of people to come on and tell you he's not worth it, to leave him etc as that is how threads like this tend to go. Hope you can find a way forward on this.

FWIW here are our pros:

1 We are a good team
2 DH is a good father (although can be a bit quick to send to time out)
3 We have fun and can still make each other laugh after 13 years
4 He puts up with me (and I think that is amazing sometimes)
5 Making up is always fun

Cons

1 I can be incredibly picky leading to silly arguments and am a bugger about not saying sorry
2 DH has several really annoying habits and despite me asking him not to nothing changes (leading to 1!)
3 We tend to argue in front of the kids (which I don't like but can't seem to avoid)
4 Sometimes I think DH isn't happy with his lot as he talks a lot about what he'd like to change
5 I worry about whether we are bringing our kids up to have the right attitude to relationships (but time will tell I suppose)

IMO the cons outweigh the pros. The fact he cant/wont work and alcoholic for me are not acceptable (I have had a fair bit of experience in my family with alcoholism and the fact he does nothing to recover spells a very sad end to me).

OK my go....

Pros
He loves me
He loves the children
He changed his job last year to a more challenging one to earn more money and its been very tough for him but he has managed it.
He makes me laugh
Hes a pretty good shag

Cons
Terrible with money (but has given me complete control of the money)
Doesnt help around the house
Childlike
Can be short tempered (but in all honesty probably less than me!)
Is addicted to doing the lotto.

If he is an alcoholic then his primary relationship is with alcohol. You and do will always come second.

ha ha I didnt read the title properly and made it all about him (I am of course perfect!!!)

No addict is worth having a relationship with unless they are working very hard to overcome their addiction. Yours isn't.

You do realise that your remaining with him under these circumstances is enabling his addiction to continue? Perhaps the most loving act you could do for him is to state your limits of tolerance for his addiction and stand by them.

Pros

He adores me and the children
Complete financial access and sharing
He cooks and irons everything
He gives me space
He prioritises his wife and children over work, friends, PIL, everybody

Cons

Pink Floyd addiction
His clothes pile
Sky Sports football obsession
Memory like a sieve
I-pod docs all over the house (to listen to more Pink Floyd, fun for ALL the family - not)

TBH the alcoholism and poor work history would be enough for me to ditch him. I would want to be married to a grown up who takes responsibility for himself.

He loves me unconditionally
He does stuff with the dc I can't be arsed to do such as sports clubs and teams
He is very clever and quite funny
He is a domestic god - seriously
He is loyal and faithful

He leaves lights and radios and electrical appliances on
He doesn't wash his hands before cooking EVER
He repeats himself when drunk (frequent)
He has got a short temper
He sometimes has a clacky mouth

Pros

He adores me & loves me and lets me know in subtle ways every day (like making me porridge for breakfast because I'm crap at making it)
Complete financial access and sharing of everything
He understands me
He's honourable and kind and has massive integrity
I can trust him 100% to be there for me.

Cons
He chews nicorette and leaves it in odd places
He likes "Rhianna's music" (Bleugh!)
He can be a bit of a workaholic (farmer, so he can be forgiven)
He leaves his clothes "next" to the laundry basket for the laundry fairy to pick them up
He farts in bed and then giggles like a 4 year old boy.

In the grand scheme of things, my Pros FAR, FAR outweigh the cons, because I had to pick 5 of a huge number of "pros" and had to really think about the "cons".

I just separated from my husband, and could have written a similar pro/con list, except under cons change 'doesn't have a job' for 'has a job but has been off sick lots with alcohol-related depression'. I decided for me that the cons outweighed the pros and asked him to leave, as it was affecting my health enormously (two breakdowns and needing a lot of therapy). From my experience all of the things on your con list are linked with alcoholism --> aggressiveness/temper, debt, cross-addiction.

One way to help you decide whether you can live with his drinking, is what I did, go to Al Anon and listen to other people's experiences. Some people make it work and are happy, some alcoholics get recovery, for me I could not live that way and I could not allow my children to live with it either. But that was my decision.

Your 3&4 should be a given in any loving relationship. I'm sorry but I think the cons out weight the pros :( What does he contribute to your life & household?
Would he get help for alcoholism if you tell him it's upsetting you?

Pros; 1. We can spend 4 days in a room alone together & not have a cross word.

1. He is a fantastic DH & dad, happy to bend over backwards for us.
2. There is 100% honesty & trust in our relationship.
3. We're a great team & fill the gaps in the others weaknesses.
4. We're geeks & can enjoy most things together.

Cons; 1. I'm a grumpy bitch most days.

1. He needs 8hrs sleep (not good with a 4mnth old)
2. I dislike his guitar playing (it's all crappy blues).
3. We never have enough time together because of his long hours/need for sleep.
4. We swear too much.

From reading the replies, for most people the pros are genuine pros but the cons are just trivial irritations not really cons ie being messy, farting or liking crap music.

If I had to seriously consider the pros and cons in my relationship I really think it would be time to have a very serious think about our future together.

FWIW mine our;

1. We are really in love and have been from day 1 (now 7 years), totally trust him as well.
2. We have been through some seriously tough times in our time together (not relationship stuff but redundancies, close family illness/deaths etc) and it has never affected our relationship as its so strong.
3. He is an amazing dad, really hands on, none of this 'babysitting' for his own DCs crap!
4. Treats everything we have to do at home as equal ie clearing up, looking after the kids
5. We never argue, we talk about stuff, I am much more short tempered and can be a cow but we just get on well so he can cope with me ;o)

There are no real cons but the annoying things are;

1. He leaves my car in gear
2. He leaves the toilet seat up
3. I really can't think of anything else but I reckon he could come up with a larger list for me!!!

Thanks everyone for your honest replies. Yes, most of your cons sound like minor irritations whereas my first two are big (alcoholism and lack of job).

I have been very close to ending our relationship before but have always come back from the brink. I've just given birth to dd2 a few weeks ago and it was a difficult and worrying pregnancy. All my energy has been focussed on that for so long, I haven't had any headroom to contemplate our marriage. And I felt too vulnerable to imagine leaving.

But now things are gradually getting back to normal and I am thinking straight again, I see the old problems are still there, and despite various promises given over the years, he is doing precisely nothing about his alcoholism or his lack of work / money. And I am beginning to realise that he probably never will do anything about them.

I read the relationships board regularly and there are all sorts of horrors to be had. Infidelity, porn addiction, emotional abuse, physical and sexual abuse, rape, etc. My dh does none of this. He genuinely loves me and is genuinely a lovely person. So when I read these awful threads I think to myself how lucky I am to have married a good guy. And while his problems are bad, are they bad enough to break up our little family over?

I don't want to be without him. I wouldn't be happier on my own. I just want him to stop drinking and get a job. The rest of it is surmountable. Just stop fucking drinking and get a proper fucking job.

If he does genuinely love him then when you ask him to do something about the major issues then he will be more than willing to do it to help his family. I work in this area and there is no miracle cure but there is lots of help out there for people in your DHs situation and also lots of support for you!

I really hope things work out for you!

Pros
He is a great communicator and encourages me to discuss issues (I have a tendency to bottle things up to avoid confrontation)

He is supportive of my goals and achievements

He makes me laugh every day

He?s great in bed

He adores me and my dog

He?s been through a hell of a lot, accepted counselling and come through the other side.

He?s the most emotionally intelligent man I know.

Cons
He has a tendency to go over and over the same thing during a discussion to the point where my eyes glaze over.

He tends to get so engrossed in what he?s doing that I have to ask him to do things I hope he?d do without being asked, eg I?m about to dish up the meal I?ve cooked and he hasn?t cleared the table/put on theTV in readiness.

Not in a good place regarding job and money (but in fairness he?s had a lot of bad luck)

Op my mums still married to a alcoholic 30 years down the line and it's still destroying both their lives , they are both in their 50,s and should be enjoying life and their grandchildren .

Pros

-he's a fantastic husband and father and can't do enough for us.
-he's very generous and giving
-in 14 years he's never shouted at me or made me feel scared ( this is important to me because of my dad )
-he's great fun and loves to laugh
-he does a lot for my family financially even though they forget to send him a birthday card !

Cons

-he works a lot ! ( though I do love his drive and ambition)
-he can be over sensitive at times
-when he drinks he falls asleep which can be embarrassing in social situations !
-he loves watching sport
-he like eating crap food

OP, your pros are lovely but your cons are unbearable .

Pros -

He is kind, reliable and always gives me a hug when I ask for one.
He loves me a lot.
He gets more sexy the older he gets.
He appreciates all I do for him.
He makes me very happy.

Cons -

We don't get enough alone time.
We don't have as much sex as I would like.
He won't go down on me at all.
We are always knackered.
We don't want to live in the same part of the country. (He wins.)

Lou2321 - you should leave a manual car in gear in case the handbrake fails. It's a good habit to have!

I just want him to stop drinking and get a job. The rest of it is surmountable. Just stop fucking drinking and get a proper fucking job.

That's just hearbreaking, OP. I'm sorry.

I'm saying this with love, but: you do realize he maybe never will, right? And that no amount of love and reasoning or any other effort on your part can make him; only he can stop drinking and get a proper job. IF he chooses to.

Yes hotdamn, I do realise. I just don't know what I can do (if anything) to help him change things. Ultimatum? Do they work? I've told him before that his drinking will destroy our marriage.

Hi april rain,

re your comment:-
"And while his problems are bad, are they bad enough to break up our little family over?"

In a word, yes. Sorry to be so blunt here but being a child in a household where a parent is an alcoholic is a bloody nightmare for said child with far reaching effects that often extend into their own adulthood.

Your cons list therefore mightily outweighs any pro list you draw up. The first two cons alone would be dealbreakers.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. How can a man who is short tempered with the DC be at all seen as kind (to you anyway?).

Alcoholism is never a good thing to be around; your children will become caught up in that as they become older. You as his wife are already enmeshed within his world of alcoholism and have doubtless made many excuses for him and to your own self. You are his enabler and you are playing that role within this dysfunction.

How many people in your real life circle know about his alcoholism; very few I would daresay. Alcoholism too thrives on secrecy.

He may well love you (how does he show this?) but he loves alcohol more. Alcohol is a cruel mistress and his primary relationship is with drink.

He will not stop drinking either because you tell/ask/plead with him to stop drinking.

The 3cs re alcoholism are ones you would do well to remember:-
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

You may well be doing yourself a favour by speaking to Al-anon and working out whether you want to hang around for the next 5-10 years or so. But I will tell you this, your children won't ultimately thank you for staying with their drunkard father if you did so and could well wonder why you put him before them.

"I just don't know what I can do (if anything) to help him change things".

There is nothing you can do except help your own self. Al-anon would be a good place for you to start. Unless he wants to seek help for his alcoholism he won;t change and you cannot force any change. Also aprilrain, he does not want your "help"!!.

"Ultimatum? Do they work? I've told him before that his drinking will destroy our marriage".

An ultimatum can only be issued once; if that is repeated or gone back on it loses all its power. What was his response to him being told that his drinking will destroy your marriage?. He may well think that he does not have a drink problem. He is not a lovely person to be around either if he is a drunkard.

'Not worth breaking up your family for'.

Here is my view on that: I'm the child of an alcoholic dad, our childhood was awful. Alcoholism affects everyone. TBH I resent my mum the most for not leaving him and brining us up in that situation. Family events were a nightmare - always an excuse for a drink, christmas, arguments, dad being so drunk that he fell over in the street, tiptoeing around the issue all the time,the worst was when I had flu, my mum was seriously ill in hospital and my dad decided to drive the car to the off-licence to buy more drink - he was so drunk he crashed the car off on our road. where children play. noone was injured but it could have been so much worse. i remember having to tell my mum when she was in her hospital bed (by the way when mum was in hospital, I had to look after my siblings and argue with dad to give us money to buy food).

I'm sorry but he can't be a loving husband or father as his only love is alcohol. You are also not looking at the long term picture - what if he gets worse? are you happy to do ALL the parenting and compensate for his behaviour all the time (because you won't be able to trust him?) what about the future health issues?

the shame of having to explain to my friends about my dad when we were at school, or in fact any of this will never leave me.

Leave him, for you and your kids.

I am sorry, but I just don't see how your pros and cons list stack up. How does he 'love' you, how is he 'kind' to you if he won't do anything to sort out his drinking problem? Is it the drink which makes him short tempered with the children? Another deal breaker for me.

Love is a verb, love is action. How does he show he 'loves' you? Bybrefusing to do anything about a horrible destructive addiction which blights your day to day existence and your children's future? They will be learning all sorts of lessons from you both.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I just don't understand how you can say he loves you.

I just don't know what I can do (if anything) to help him change things.

Nothing. Only he can change himself. You can only help yourself (and only you can help yourself). Maybe you should focus on that a little: you are suffering too.

Ultimatum? Do they work? I've told him before that his drinking will destroy our marriage.

Only issue an ultimatum if you are prepared to follow through. Otherwise it is worse than useless: an ultimatum that is not followed through is proof to the other person that you are prepared to be walked all over, and to stick around for more.

Look at it this way: what is the limit of what you are prepared to tolerate, in terms of your husband's behaviour? Really truly? Own that limit: it is yours. It delineates what you hold to be true and necessary for your own happiness. State that out loud to your husband if you desire. And know what the consequence will be if ever that limit is crossed. And apply that consequence - for your own protection.