Struggling with my DH, could use some advice

[WannaBeWildCosMyLifesSoTame]

Sorry, this is long.

We've been married for 10 years, together for over 15. There was never a great big passion/soulmate thing but we just clicked after being friends for a while - to be honest I was at a time where I wanted to settle down and he fitted the bill. I'd had a lot of family troubles and he was a bit older (8 years) and more sensible, really I wanted someone who would look after me but that's not to say there wasn't more - it's never been a madly passionate relationship but we've had some really good times.

Over the years though little things that have always annoyed me about him are really starting to cause problems. His pessimistic nature. His rudeness (which he would call bluntness or not suffering fools gladly). His ability to make me feel like a nagging old bag when I'm just trying to keep our lives running smoothly.

Couple of examples:

Rudeness: We stayed at my parents this weekend, he's never fond of going there (fair enough - other people's families) but came grudgingly. He behaved quite well (sounds like I'm talking about a child) until Saturday afternoon when he clearly felt we'd been there long enough. While the rest of us sat about talking and playing games he read upstairs in our room (fair enough I guess) but was then sulky and monosyllabic all through tea and for the rest of the evening. Sunday morning he was up at about 7.30, showered and dressed before anyone else was out of bed and made it abundantly clear that he wanted to leave - wouldn't sit down for a cup of tea, dashed through his breakfast and had the car loaded and ready to go before I'd even got dressed. Again I can understand he might have had enough of my family but it's so bloody rude and it happens every time we go there (and also at friends' houses, it's not just there). It puts me in an extremely awkward position between him and my Mum and I just don't think it's acceptable - our 9 year old DD wouldn't get away with it so why the hell should a grown adult?

Pessimism: After being made redundant last year he's recently landed a new job. OK money, very convenient, just what he's been looking for. In the current climate (to coin a phrase!) he's very lucky to have found it. But can he come home with a smile on his face because things are at last going right for him? Oh no, not him. I understand that starting a new job is stressful but over the years we have made so many excuses for his grumpiness (he hates his job, his commute's too long etc etc) - even DD notices and comments on it now and that's not good.

Making me feel like a nag: I work and also do some freelancing to bring in some extra cash. I work a long day and most evenings, sometimes weekends too and have clients on the phone/text/email constantly. Despite this I seem to be in charge of running all of our lives as well - he does practical stuff like cleaning the bathroom and emptying the bins and if I point out that it needs doing he'll iron or whatever but I have to do everything else from planning what we're going to eat and doing the shopping to arranging DD's activities, sorting out everything to do with school and even putting her to bed at night (which I love doing and she does too but some nights when I'm tired or have work to do it would be nice if he would offer. All he says is 'she's old enough to put herself to bed' totally missing the point that there won't be many more years that she wants us to do it and I think we should make the most of it). God knows how we'd manage if we had more than 1 child (another sore point actually, I'd like more, he refuses to discuss it :( )

I am far from blameless in all this but I am just feel like I am trying to please everyone and not getting much support. My own parents went through a hideous divorce so I'm very against it but sometimes I wonder whether DD and I would be happier on our own :(

Any advice for getting over this? I need to decide if it's something we can work round or not and I just don't know. Thanks for reading :)

He sounds a lot like my dh in many ways, and I too constantly wonder if I would be happier on our own. So I sympathise.

You don't mention much about your relationship with each other - do you still talk? Laugh? How long is it since you had a really great time together? Is there still a spark? What does he say when you bring these issues up? Does he acknowledge that there are problems and that he is partly responsible for them? How is his relationship with his dd? You say that she comments on his moodiness and that you organise all her activities and are her primary carer. Do they have any fun times together?

The refusal to talk about having another dc strikes me as very selfish. I can understand him feeling strongly that he doesn't want one, but refusing to talk about it shows a complete lack of respect for your feelings. He gets his own way and doesn't care how it might affect you.

Pessimism is very wearing in a partner - I know because my dh is exactly like this. Seems so angry with the world. I don't know how to deal with it so can't advise - in my experience, dh gets more pessimistic the older he gets. And I get less tolerant of it!

Sorry I haven't much advice.

Oh dear April, sounds like we are in the same boat.

We can and do laugh together and now and then we have a night on our own when it's as though the years have rolled away but when it's over things just go back to being the same. If I try and talk to him about what bothers me he either gets defensive and makes excuses (some of which are justified - I know my Mum can be annoying for example) or (as in the case of a second child) just won't talk about it. His Mum does this too, just refuses to acknowledge things that don't suit her, and it drives me bonkers in both of them, I agree it is very selfish. (She is also the world's worst worrier and pessimist, clearly where he gets it from.)

DD adores her Dad and he is good with her to an extent. He's not a naturally relaxed person and is very low key in showing his affection to her but I think (hope) she knows he loves her. Trouble is, as she gets older she is starting to find his behaviour as unreasonable as I do - or at least she seems to, I really hope I am not influencing her as that wouldn't be fair. If I go away (couple of times a year) they seem to have fun together and he's not the sort of man where I have to leave him a list of what to do with/for her or where I come home and the place is a tip unlike a lot of my friends' DHs, but I think that's as it should be rather than something to be grateful for.

I think I need to decide whether all of this is something I can put up with and on the whole I suppose it is - it doesn't seem worth splitting up over at the moment but I have serious doubts about us staying together long term which makes me very sad :(

to be honest I was at a time where I wanted to settle down and he fitted the bill. I'd had a lot of family troubles and he was a bit older (8 years) and more sensible

OP seems like you bought into the stereo-typical "Man to take care of me" scenario.

If he was "sensible" then, a number of years down the road this will equal "stuck in the mud boring"

Women have changed a great deal over the last couple of decades and it seems a lot of men have stayed sexist the same due to it suiting them.

Maybe OP you've grown up and out of him?

Nagging is a term used to shut those women up who are trying to make men do their fair share. Which really sums up your situation.

He sounds like hard work and yes you are right, bloody rude. I would have been spitting after that weekend. And the sulking is like walking on eggshells around him. I grew up with a father like that. It was grim.

Basically, if you are unhappy (and you certainly sound like it and have reason to) then leave. Life is too short for both you and your daughter.

I have always been a more positive, irresponsible fun loving person than him - sometimes this can be a good thing in that we balance each other out ie he calms me down and stops me doing daft things and I liven him up a bit, but at other times we seem totally incompatible :(

My Dad was like this too according to my Mum - I don't really remember him like that, just as an excellent Dad - and I don't want to make the same mistake she did which was to stay with him too long and then go through a horrible divorce. But my Dad is with someone else now and I have never known him as relaxed and happy so maybe they just weren't compatible, and maybe that's true for us as well?

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. Your H learnt a lot of damaging stuff from his mother and probably his father as well.

You have written about his relationship with your DD (this does not sound an overtly happy one either); what about your relationship between you and H?.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Be honest with yourself here.

What are you now teaching your DD about relationships; she is picking up on all the unspoken vibes between your and your H here. She is also noticing how unreasonable her Dad is being towards you. Children adore any parent anyway no matter how awful they are because this is what they know and grow up with.

What do you want to teach your DD about relationships?. Both of you are imparting lessons to her about this.

Would you want to talk to Relate alone about your relationship?.

Oh God Atilla - what is it I've said that makes you think my relationship with my DD is not good? It's shocked me to think that's how it might come across - we have the normal mum and daughter 'negotiations' but generally we've got an excellent relationship (I hope).

My parents relationship was unhappy as I've said and my Mum's second marriage even worse. I learnt a lot about adult relationships and what I did and didn't want from one because of this and am probably more paranoid than most about not passing on the wrong lessons to my DD, hence me wondering whether staying in our relationship is a positive thing or not.

DH's Mum is a PITA but means well, his Dad much the same - his background is far more 'normal' than mine but because mine is so complicated (much more to it than I've said here) I tend to dismiss anything DH may have experienced as not being as important.

What do I get from our relationship? Security, someone to share life with, the happiness that comes from being part of a family and doing normal family stuff. Not sure what else I should be looking for really.

PS I can't imagine even broaching the idea of Relate with DH, he'd just think I was being overly dramatic. Would I like to go? Not sure.

He sounds extremely selfish and I think that's the top and bottom of it. He doesn't see why he should be interpersonally amenable with people he doesn't want to be with (your family and friends) and thinks it's acceptable to make a unilateral decision about what time you will all leave. You could start replying that you're not ready to leave and will get home under your own steam (or better still he could leave you the car and get public transport if he wants to leave early). Perhaps you need to change your own behaviour when he does these things, instead of feeling like you're treading on eggshells and scurrying home in order to keep the peace?

It's the same with his job. He obviously thinks that's more important than your work, doesn't he?

You really must stop doing so much of the domestic work too and I agree that the term 'nagging' is sexist.

In general, 'settling' for someone never works and as has been suggested, 'security' in 1994 is manifesting itself as 'boredom and irritation' in 2012. I don't doubt he's got more selfish as he's got older though and I expect you really started to notice it when your DD was born and your workload increased.

I think Relate would be a good idea if you don't want to throw in the towel without trying harder. At the very least you need to be honest about your unhappiness and how his selfishness is affecting not just you, but your DD and the welcome that is extended to you by others. I bet their hearts sink when they hear that Eeyore is coming too

Other than point out the damaging messages that her dps are giving her, I can't see that Atiilla has made any comment on your relationship with your dd.

When you married him you settled for second best - and you've got yourself a second rate man.

You wanted someone to 'take care' of you but it seems that unless everyone adapts to his needs, he'll have a strop. How pathetic is that in a grown man and what kind of example is he giving your dd?

If he's not willing to make any attempt to change his pessimistic ways and his unreasonable and impolite behaviour to others, you're destined for many more years of the same and your dd will continue to grow up with a warped idea of the male/female relationship.

Frankly, I couldn't be doing with a man who has a glass half full (or, in his case, empty) attitude all of the time and I'd take positive action to make sure he didn't continue to impose his negativity on me or any dc of our union.

And you want to have more dc with this miserable git man

I'm sorry I read Atilla's message all wrong, she actually said my DD's relationship with her Dad was not good - not mine and hers

These responses are worrying me actually (although I am very glad to get another perspective on our relationship). I didn't realise it would look so bad from the outside. I have to admit I feel a bit protective when people are calling him a miserable git etc (not offended - I have called him the same and worse!) - not sure what that says about how I feel towards him.

I very much believe that relationships take work and that give and take is crucial so I don't want to just throw in the towel. I guess I also feel that unless someone is hitting you or cheating on you then it's not that bad but I do know that it's not quite as black and white as that. I feel my perspective on all of this is a bit skewed - due my parents' breakup and my DM's subsequent abusive relationship I am never quite sure what are the normal standards to judge a relationship by.

I don't know the whole story but my parents (very different to each other) married in part so that my DM could escape an abusive father. Their marriage failed as did her subsequent relationship which in turn affected me. I can see how history repeats itself and we are all affected by our parents' choices and I am trying so hard to make the right decision not just for me but for my DD.

You feel protective of him because you're familiar with his ways and regard him as your miserable git, but this is preventing you from seeing just how selfish, unreasonable, immature, and destructive, his behaviour is.

If your dd had behaved as he did while staying with your dps you woudn't have tolerated it and nor, I suspect, would he - which, given that she would have learned it from his example, is a tad ironical.

Broadly speaking, the reason why history repeats itself is that so few of us are willing to learn from it and this, in part, is due to us modelling our adult selves on what we learned in childhood instead of viewing adulthood as a time to put away childish things and start a new chapter.

Dont get me wrong; I'm all for people getting in touch with their 'inner child' but not if they're going to channel their 2 year old self's tantrums and throw their toys out of the pram if they don't get their own way.

I agree with you that there should be an element of give and take in all of our relationships with others but, from what you've said, your dh has become proficient at 'taking' and is seriously deficient in 'giving'.

As for relationships being 'work', in my professional life I have little choice but to associate with people who fall into the category of 'bloody hard work' and I regard these associations as exercises in personal growth

But in my intimate relationships I take the view that if I have to 'work' at it, it's not fun and if it's not fun, it's not enchancing my life and, in these circumstances, I find it frighteningly easy to dispense with those whose presence in my life does not make me feel good about myself.

How will you feel if your dd emulates her df and turns out to be a drama queen with pessimistic tendencies, or if she settles for a miserable git man who is just like her dear papa?

I once saw a tombstone with the epitaph 'A life well lived - a man well loved' and it seems to me that, regardless of whether we're princes or paupers, there can be no greater accolade.

I hope that a similar sentiment will be inscribed on my headstone. Is that what you'd inscribe on your dh's?

I don't know what to say regarding your DH, but what I notice from your original post is that you seem to want more enjoyment in life. Then I look at your MN name ...

OP I agree with all the other posters, they have given excellent advice as usual.

I'd just like to throw a couple more things in.

You do not have to put up and shut up. You don't have to lie in the bed you've made either for ever, you can buy a new one these days.

What you saw as "security" when younger is now showing itself as supression.

Think long and hard OP before settling for another 20 odd years of living in an unfulfilling relationship.

Jane - it's a line from an Oasis song but yes it represents how I feel. One of the things that attracted me to DH was that he was stable and secure which I completely wasn't when I met him (nothing awful but I don't know which way my life would have gone if I we hadn't got together). Generally a secure and happy family life is what I most want but every now and then I have the urge to break out and be 'me' - not someone's wife or mum or daughter. But I think most of us feel like that at some time or another don't we? I don't usually act on it!