How do I repair the relationship with my toxic mother? And should I even want to??

[Loonybun]

Where to start.... I'm so so sorry this is so long... The main thing is I do love my mum but I'm not sure how reasonable I'm being or whether I'm pushing water up a hill. Please be gentle I feel so sad about all this.

Okay, I'm 32 this year and until about 3 weeks ago my mum and I have always lived together (the key to this being we've always mutually owned the property we've lived in - it's not been me living with her or vice versa, this will become clear later on).

My mum has a lot of very old mental health history, which is now resolved in that she does not take medication - hasn't for at least 20 years - and she does not see anyone in relation to mental health, gp or otherwise. When I was very little (age 5-9) she was in and out of mental hospitals with bipolar depression and I was left mainly to the care of my Gran - who also lived with us.

My Mum has always been what some might call a "middle class" drinker in that (like my dad) she would always drink in the evenings, usually whisky from a "posh" glass (part of the ritual of it for her) and usually too much, BUT she would not dream of drinking during the day and is never hungover (she is always up at the crack of dawn). Incidentally, my Gran was alcoholic and didn't drink for the last 50 years of her life - she died of bowel cancer at 83, after being nursed through terminal illness at home by me and my mother (at the same time as I had just had dd and was suffering terrible pnd myself).

My mum and dad divorced when I was 12 after a very on and off relationship. My dad signed his share of the house over to me and has also paid substantial maintenance in addition to this. My Gran also paid my mum £800 a month (!!) from her pensions. My mum has never really had to work except for odd bouts due to this. Also, I have full paid in to the houses we have had. I decided against going to university to get a full time job, as I felt responsible for mum and Gran (at the time) and I basically paid all the bills, food and groceries for all of us along with my Gran.

I should probably add here that I am an only child. When my Gran died there is no other family connected to my mum. I appreciate my mum had a difficult upbringing. My Gran fled the US to escape my Grandad (mums dad) who was abusive. My Gran left my mums only sibling, an older brother out in the USA at the time. They are not close now. Basically, I am all my mum has got.

Sorry for all the history there... Don't know if it's going to be relevant or not. I suppose it all is.

After my Gran died, I split up with my partner at the time (dd's dad- dd is now nearly 9) and I shortly met and married another man. We (mum, myself and dd and my then dh) all moved away from London to a rural area. We brought a new house. I went back to work full time, Mum wanted to be at home with dd and it seemed like a good solution. So myself and dh worked all hours in very well paid jobs, mum was like a live in nanny and did all the childcare in return for us paying all the bills and her having free access to our joint account in order to buy food etc for the house.

I should add here that my mum (as we found out) is useless with money. She will think nothing of spending £120 a week on groceries when our budget was £80 for example (not exact figures just examples). She is also the messiest person in the world and will not clean. Not at all. I don't expect her to clean, I'm happy to do that but I mean she will not even hoover, nothing. She would also take pity on people knocking on the door asking for work like gardening and once spent £250 of my money on someone cutting the hedges whilst I was at work without asking me because she deemed it necessary and thought she was doing me a favour!! (I would have liked to have been asked!!)

In her good points, she is and always has been wonderful with dd and they have a very strong bond.

It's all gone tits up very slowly - lots of little resentments, like the money etc. We ended up being overdrawn. Dh and I grew apart and to be honest I had more of a relationship with my mum. This wasn't entirely my fault, dh wasn't interested either. So a few years ago we separated, dh moved back to London and that was the last we saw of him.

Mum and I had to sell that house. We had a lot of debt to pay off - mainly due to my mum overspending it has to be said. I do take some of the blame for this because I "let" her do it. But I didn't want to upset her by taking away any of her responsibility with the house - she saw herself very much as the matriarch. We ended up having to pay off £26,000 of debt. So not a little amount. (Our houses have always been mortgage free so equity to use).

We then moved to a smaller house, me mum and dd. I decided I didn't want to work full time anymore, I'd had enough of it and wanted to spend time at home with dd. I felt I'd missed out and I was emotionally worn out with everything. My mum had to do something she'd not done before - get a job. She got a job cleaning. I'm proud of her for that but I never heard the end of it. Woe is me, heavy drinking, "I'm 63 and I'm cleaning toilets!" etc etc. Well so do lots of other people!!

We had so many rows during this period. I began going out more, trying to regain my independence since my split with dh. My mum openly said that she was angry with me for ruining what she considered to be her "golden years" - her at home looking after dd and me paying everything. I had a casual relationship with someone for 6 months (never introduced them to dd) and my mum would openly tell me she was ashamed of me. We really hit rock bottom in terms of communication. She said I was always aggressive towards her. I wasn't - but just not agreeing with her even in the mildest sense is aggression to her!!

I then met my now dh. Fast forward a year and we began living together (in the house, yes my house too - my mums as well but I wanted a family, for him to live with us so what was I supposed to do? Bear with me...) My mum was horrible towards him and blamed him for ruining her "family" - as she saw it as me her and dd. She is very sexist because of her history with men. She has openly sworn at dh calling him a "fucking bastard" - again when dd was at her dads, dd has NEVER seen my mum drunk or that side to her at all.

My dh has never been anything but nice to my mum by the way.

After several of these massive rows, one particular one with her storming off in the streets at 3am drunk telling me to "piss off" and "how can I be like this to her after everything she's done for me" etc and telling dh he is a bastard (for what reason god only knows) I decided I couldn't bear it any longer and I told her - crunch time- that I didn't want to live with her anymore. I told her we would remortgage the house for her share, and give her enough to buy somewhere else mortgage free. OR she could live here and we would buy somewhere else.

6 months of horrible rows have followed. She has basically told me that she can't believe I had done this to her. That I have decimated her life and that she now has nothing. She said she can't even look at me as she feels like I am a different person. She is disgusted with me. She always thought she would die at home with me like Gran did and she can't believe I would "chuck her out like this".

In the end we did remortgage this house and paid my mum slightly more than her share so she could buy a very nice 2 bed house, with a garden for her 3 dogs (another bone of contention - I put up with them for her, but I'm really NOT a dog person!) in a nice area all of 5 minutes away from us. We have NOT done her out of any money. We have even given her money towards other items she has needed for the set up of the house and offered to help decorate.

She makes out that I have wounded her beyond repair and cut her out of our lives. I have NOT done this. I have made it very clear that I want to rebuild my relationship with her whatever way I can, and I want to keep up her contact with dd as much as it was before. Since she has moved I have been round to see her nearly every day and dd has been going round to hers after school and even had a sleepover at her house. I have frequently suggested she pop into us for a tea and she always declines, very dramatically saying "it's too painful / difficult". The other day she did agree to come round for roast dinner (which I spent a lot of money and time on) only for her to walk out as I was dishing up shouting "I can't, I just can't" and went off in tears, leaving dd wondering what was going on.

I didn't text her to ask after her as all I get is "I don't know what I've done to be such a terrible mother to you". I've never said she's a terrible mother - I just want a normal mother daughter relationship where I don't feel responsible for her!!!

Dh is now at the point where he is feeling really angry with her. It's like she won't move on from this at all and he feels that she blames him for everything- ie, if I hadn't met him she and I would still live together. BUT this isn't the case, I have simply had enough of living with my mum. Lots of reasons, - her mess, her dogs, her drinking (dh and I both teetotal through just not liking drinking). her constant judgemental and sexist attitudes.. everything. I can't bear it any more.

To add to this... I am 32 weeks pregnant with a ds. I can't already tell that my mum isn't going to be very interested in this baby because she's more or less distanced herself from me and is only interested in seeing dd now. And also ds is a boy and she doesn't like men. I do worry that dd will be the "favourite" and I don't know how to rectify this. For example, she's made it clear that the spare room at her house is "dd's" room - not "the children's room" and doesn't seem very excited about ds at all.

This pregnancy hasn't been a walk in the park. I've had severe ante natal depression, probably confounded by all this going on too. I'm just about coming out the other side now and I just don't know what to do with my mum now.

I can't keep going to hers ALL the time because I want her to come to ours too, but it seems like she just won't. And if I don't go to hers then she basically makes out that I'm a terrible daughter. She will send me random texts asking me why she's such a terrible mother and I text back and say that she isn't etc. I have taken her on day trips out, to garden centres for lunch and always ask if she wants to do things on my day off (which I don't always feel like doing!!) but often she won't because she says she can't leave the dogs on their own more than 2 hours.... sigh. (I do understand dogs can't be left for ages but how am I ever meant to get the dc spending time with her if she constantly puts the dogs first all the time?? I've even offered to pay for a dog sitter).

My dh is now at the point where he's saying he doesn't think she's a nice person, he thinks she drinks too much, she's controlling and manipulative and he doesn't even want ds to be around her- I do understand where he is coming from. I suppose if I were him I would feel the same but she's my mum - she doesn't have any friends or anyone else. I am solely responsible for her. There is no one else. She works part time as a special needs learning support assistant. I have encouraged her to build her own life outside of us but all I get back is a very angry "I had my family and you took it away from me". I'm not taking it away from her!! For fucks sakes!!!

It's getting to the point now where I know she's telling people (her neighbours and one of dd's friends mum - who thankfully is my friend too not that is matters I guess) that I'm a terrible daughter who diddled her out of money (as people always assume I lived with mum and mum looked after me rather than the other way round!) and she's ended up in this little house while we've kept the larger one - with a large mortgage I might add! She's making me out to be some sort of dragon when all I want is to live on my own, in peace with my own little family! And see her regularly like a proper mum!

I really don't know what to do from here. Do I just say enough is enough and tell her if she can't make the effort to come here and get over things then I'm washing my hands of it? Or do I have sympathy for her and try and bend over backwards to appease her??

I really don't know what to do.. I am also worried that she is starting to lean on dd much like she's always lent on me (and now can't) and I don't want dd to have that level of burden. But if I reduce contact with dd then I'm going to hurt mum even more.. I really don't know what to do.

I feel lost.

I'm so sorry this is so long. If I'm being an ogre tell me. I can't cope with it all at all.

I am solely responsible for her

oh Loony. she has fed you this nonsense for decades hasn't she?

she can live on her own; she holds down a job on her own. she's not helpless. and everything that's gone wrong between you and her could have been rectified by her not being a bitch. that was entirely within her power.

you are not responsible for her.
no-one but SHE is responsible for her.

can you see she doesn't want to be happy? she doesn't want to be appeased. you'll never be able to make her happy because that's not what she wants. she wants to be miserable so you'll feel guilty, and she can use your bad feelings to continue to demand things from you. and it's working.

i think it's time to disengage and break this very silly cycle. have you read Toxic Parents? www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826 (i am not on the payroll despite this being my 2nd mention of this book today)

you need to start seeing her for what she is. manipulative and spiteful. therefore, she shouldn't be around you, or your children. sorry to say. she is an adult and you should be able to expect her to behave reasonably around your kids... she's not... and therefore she needs to be managed, she needs to have boundaries set around her. she's destructive. you can't let a destructive force into your family home and let it destroy things unchecked!

can i just ask: why do you leave your DD with her when she is so properly unpleasant and unbalanced? serious question.

Thanks oikopolis.. You're always great with advice on my threads ... Very clear thinking.

I will have a look into the book. Thanks. I am really trying hard to break the cycle - hence living on my own, something I never ever thought I would do :)

I suppose the difficulty with leaving dd with her is several things... Dd loves her and enjoys spending time with her. She doesn't see any of this "other" side to her. She's good with children (hence her job)..

BUT I do also wonder if I'm doing the right thing... I know if I turned around to her and said either reduced contact with dd or only see dd with me (as she's looking after dd after school for a couple of hours twice a week whilst I work, I'm due to go on maternity leave in the next two weeks) I feel I would be being evil towards her and hurting her. I suppose I would feel like I was taking away everything from her... I already feel crap enough, I don't want the guilt trip from that as well I suppose.

Plus, I suppose a part of me just wants a normal family... with a mum who can look after the dc and for them to enjoy spending time with her - which dd seems to. After all my mum was the primary care giver till dd was about 6 and I was working full time 60 hours a week... It would be hard for dd as well.

But I do know that my mum's basically a toxic old woman, at least I think I do... But she's also a very clever one and has me feeling really sorry for her too. :(

I have read through and suspect not too many will due to the length (but background info is useful)
Did not want to leave this unanswered.

there are some threads called "But we took you to stately homes" in relationships. Allabout toxic parents.
Many are very bitter though on those threads so I warn you they are not always easy to read.But they might help put things into perspective.

I think you are entitled to living in peace within your nuclear family unit. You have helped her move on the best you can and she must make peace with it herself.

Thanks, I know it was very long. It's just impossible to talk about any of this without the 30 years of history. Oops. I appreciate anyone that's read it. Thank you.

I might delve into those threads. I'm not actually feeling that bitter really, just sad. Mum and I used to be so close and she doesn't seem to be able to have a relationship with me unless it basically guarantees she's going to have me looking after her till she dies.

help her find a boyfriend

I read 80% of your post, OP! My "take" is that if she is being rude, nasty or abusive, you just "call her" on it and then distance yourself.

p.s. Sounds like she's done very well for herself, nice house with garden, never really worked, I don't see that you "owe" her anything either.

Congratulations on your pg.

What oikopolis wrote earlier.

Toxic parents like your mother more often than not become toxic grandparents. She will continue to favour your DD over your as yet unborn son and damage the relationship between them.

You owe your mother precisely nothing; she has conditioned you to think so and has fed you a lot of toxic nonsense over the years. Your mother has made you the scapegoat for all her inherent ills. You did not make her this way, her own family did that. Your mother has failed you just as they did with her.

Would suggest you read Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward.

You can break this cycle. I would go no contact with your mother as of now. Your DD does not need such a toxic influence in her young life.

BTW many if not all of the posters who do post on the Stately Homes thread (I am but one) are not bitter. It is a very supportive thread. The people have sadly come to the realisation (often after such people have become parents themselves) that our parents are not actually as nice as we were led or conditioned to believe.

Atilla, just to clarify, I was not passing judgement on the posters from those threads. From what I read, they would be fully entitled to be anyway.
Just meant to warn the OP that as she is already fragile with AND and soon to have her baby, she should only venture there knowing what to expect.
I have been a lurker on those threads for many years and they have helped me a lot but I did find them upsetting at times when I was particularly fragile.

You also have a very good point about the special relationship the grandma has with OP's DD and how she can possibly damage the relationship with her baby brother.

Sounds like the un-healthy my mother had with my gran.

Your mother free loaded off you for years, saw you as her other half and kicks off when you want to be an adult, you have put her needs before yours over and over, she is never going to be a "normal" mother, walk away

You got into debt to the tune of £26000 due to her being crap with money.

You worked full time do she coukd be a SAHM to your own child. She doesn't even seem grateful for this, more that this was her God given right.

Your marriage broke up because of her.

She is beyond rude to your new DH.

She is already uninterested in your new baby as he will be a boy.

Why do you want a relationship with this old bat?? Seriously.

Your sentence where you said you are responsible for your mother jumped off the page to me. She is responsible for herself, not you. You are responsible for yourself, your daughter and soon your son.

I have just started posting on the stately homes thread, you will receive good advice there. It will be hard to stop feeling the way you currently do because you have been conditioned into that way of thinking - but you will succeed.

It sounds so suffocating. No wonder you needed to get out.

She wanted you all to herself didn't she. Living the life how she wanted it despite whether or not this made you happy. I agree with your husband that she controlling and manipulative.

Do not under any circumstances let her play favourites with your children. If she starts to behave that way then you will have to stop her seeing either of them.

Hi, I did read all of your post, OP.

Please, set yourself free. And stop the text messages - they become awful little arrows with a 'difficult' parent who doesn't want to change. In fact, I would kill the phone and not tell her your new mobile number. Let her use the landline, if you permit her to.

It sounds harsh but I agree with the posters who say be careful about how she interacts with your DD and soon-to-be DS. If she can make you feel this guilty, why would you want that in your DC's lives?

I'm really sorry for you. I've been through something not dissimilar. It's bloody heartbreaking.

I understand how sad and hurtful it is to realise that you can't have the relationship with your mother that you crave and deserve. But you can't. A relationship takes two and she's not in it.

I'm really sorry to hear about this - you've been uber patient, but she has responsibility for her life, not you. This might be hard for you to get a handle on as she has taught you, over years, to take responsibility for her. It does sound like she expects you to be her "other half", and is jealous of you having a life separate to her, and manipulatively tries to keep you in that role.

I'd separate from her as much as you can. You may not be ready for no contact, but I certainly wouldn't be making much effort to contact her, just respond to her initiation when, and if, it suits you. And read Toxic Parents.

Why do want to "repair" your relationship with your mother? The costs of this relationship are way too high for it to be worth pursuing.

Just to add to everyone else, I know you just want a normal relationship with your mum but you have to accept that's it's not going to happen. She isn't ever going to be the mum that you want.

I get extremely hurt by my in existing relationship with my natural dad but after 40 years I am now beginning to realise it ain't ever gonna happen, I feel a lot happier now. My family is my husband and my children.

Nothing you do will appease this lady. It is not worth it and unfortunately never going to be the mother daughter relationship you need/want.
The sooner you can try to distance yourself and live your own life the better IMO. she knows how to manipulate you and your feelings.
Good luck OP. it is a v exciting time with a new baby on the way. I hope you can enjoy it without all this stress

Wow she sounds exhausting :( ...I can't believe how long you have put up with this, then again she would have spent a lifetime conditioning you to accept this :(

I agree with the others in that she isn't remotely interested in you being happy. Its all about her ALL of the time.

I would say cut contact until she decides to behave like a decent human being, but I know that will be so hard.

No wonder you have ante natal depression, I would agree that's largely from her
Hugs :(

Loony, I wrote a lot of advice about your Mum on your other thread, I hope you will read it again because I think it still stands.

You aren't responsible for your mum at all, she is an adult responsible for her own life. If she is unhappy she has the ability to change things, it's just that she has chosen not to as up until now it has been easier for her to guilt you into continually supporting her finacially and emotionally. Now that you are finally getting wise to this she is cranking up the ante with even more toxic behaviour. You don't owe her anything and you have every right to be happy and to build a happy life with your new family.

If you can't break contact with her than just stop doing nice things for her when she behaves badly. If she carries on then ignore her until she behaves better, she will either quickly learn or she will become so unreasonable and her behaviour so bad that you will eventually have to break contact with her. My guess is that she will keep escalating her behaviour in order to force you back into line and you will eventually have to cut her off.

Try to be strong, you've put up with more than enough of this crap for much longer than many other people would.

What RabidAnchovy said.

And please beware of her as a grandmother: mine played favourites and it was horried. The least-liked grandchild was my sibling and it did cause her damage. Actually, being someone's 'golden child' (as your DD clearly is to her GM) is not healthy either.

You don't have to cut her off, just detach and do things more on your own terms, not least to avoid friction with your DH (who appears to be speaking sense on this). You don't belong to your mother, you know-would you treat your DD the way your mother treats you?

I think a lot of the problem lies with the assumption on her part that history was going to be repeated ie 3 generations of women living under the one roof.
Obviously your DH's, past and present, have threatened this and has made her cross and resentful.

I think you need to point out to her even if your DH ran for the hills tomorrow, you would still not go back to living with her.
I think you should limit DD's contact with her which will be easier when you go on maternity leave, then perhaps make other arrangements for DD in the future.
Also, when you visit her always visit with both DCs. I think it would be difficult to stop contact altogether, and perhaps unfair on the DCs.

From her point of view her "family" have been her entire life and she may be too old to make a different life for herself, but she has to be made to see that nothing stays the same, and we have to make the best of what life has dealt us.

Good luck, and congratulations on your pregnancy.

Thank you for all the replies (sorry it's taken me a while to come back to this, I have been working etc).

It really helps to have some honest opinions - I often end up feeling sorry for her and rationalising everything by thinking how awful life must be for her now I've "chucked" her out etc. :(

I suppose the soley responsible thing comes from the fact that if she needed care or was seriously ill then there is literally no one else but me that would be involved in sorting that out or looking after her.. In some ways, as odd as it sounds, that's one of the reasons I wanted to have another dc so that dd didn't ever feel the way about me that I feel about my mum - at least she will have a brother to share the responsibility with. I don't ever want her to feel like she's living her life for me... Which is how I suppose I've felt with my mum in some ways.

I think I am going to take your advice - well I have actually - and I have distanced myself quite a bit in the last few days, only responding to texts where I absolutely HAVE to - ie when it's been practical things about her picking dd up or whatever. I think in some ways I need to keep the status quo at least for the next week until I start maternity leave otherwise I am up a creek in terms of childcare... but I think when I begin my maternity leave I will really have to start reassessing everything in terms of our whole relationship set up .. And of course you are right, I don't want her making dd her "golden child" and ds not getting a look in. That's not fair either.

We did end up going round yesterday as she was in a panic saying her back door lock wasn't working - so dh and I went round to see her and lo and behold there was absolutely nothing wrong with the lock and dh opened it first time (although to be fair it could have been stuck or whatever earlier). Mum was very appreciative towards my dh, to the point he came away wondering what he'd done to deserve son in law of the year treatment - it was almost like she realised how rude she'd been the other day and was making up for it... But the trouble with my mum is that she will never say "I'M SORRY I WAS SO RUDE!" - it's always just making an effort to be nice again and everything is swept under the carpet, which is quite frustrating really. On the other hand, she was very distant with me the whole time...

Hmm we'll see. I really appreciate the replies and people taking time to read my mammoth post! Thanks.