Big marriage problems - not abuse, incompatibility

[moocat]

I posted on here a while ago - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1251124-Please-help-me-I-am-in-such-a-spin-I-cant-go-in-on-this-marriage-but-I-dont-want-to-break-up-our-family

We have reached crunch time again. I have been feeling really desperate, suicidal, thinking I should ring the Samaritans (DH very nice man, great supportive husband but deep loneliness in our marriage)

On Friday, wierdly, something sort of shifted though and I had a really really honest conversation with DH. Instead of dismissing me and insisting that everything is okay, he said that he knew what I was talking about and - for example - it had made him feel sad when we last saw his elderly parents as he knew that they could see what our relationship is like.

Wierdly, because finally we were being honest and talking about the barriers to intimacy we both have I felt really close to him and could see that there is the possibility of a really loving relationship there. We agreed that there was lots to talk about, and I am really clear in my own mind having realised/remembered what a relationship can be like that i am not prepared to go back to the old status quo.

Today, I started to say that I felt quite upset that for years when I had tried to talk to him he had said it was all fine, we love each other to bits etc etc when my gut instinct was that he was lonely too. So - back to square one. I said I really am not going back to how things were. He mentioned divorce and is out having a drink. He is highly reasonable, I rang him once DCs in bed to see if he wanted to come back and talk and he said he would stay out a bit longer - very politely.

I feel almost as if he was a bit quick to jump really. I have no idea where he is with it. I DO know that I can't go back to how it was, but I don't actually want to split up - I don't think.

Sorry, this is a ramble but it helps to get my thoughts down.

hi moocat..is it the idea of marriage house and family you love..or is it your man? I know it sounds harsh but I was feeling that way..soon after I had my 4th child I felt like I was on my own in the marriage. it took me 5 years to finally call it quits. I was practically suicidal. kept thinking when I was late driving that it just would be easier to drive off the road an then I wouldnt have to make a decision. it would be made for me. you should go to the gp and sort out whether you have depression or are just really really tired. (suicidal thoughts are never good).
Once you are sure that this is not the case you should make a clear decision as to what you want to do. This should be based on what is best for you. What is best for you is best for the kids.
for me it was separation,( but I tried to leave when the kids were young and couldnt cope so chickened out). I am only just now - in 2 wks - moving out of the house. It has not been difficult once I made up my mind. We have been separated in the house now for 6 months. He is devastated though.
For you it could be a temporary separation - or you could choose to work on being a couple and make an effort to do more things together.

He wasn't quick to jump at all. You spent quite some time offloading how unhappy you are in the marriage. He agreed to the point that he knows others have noticed. To you this was a springboard for the future.... to him it was confirmation that it was all over. "Where he is with it" therefore is 'the end'. I think it's time you accepted that and stopped prevaricating.

He mentioned divorce. That's what he wants OP. It's probably too late for anything else.

Look, if it hadn't been for the unplanned PG in the first place, you'd have got bored with this bloke and dumped him. It is far far better to separate and build a relationship as co-parents than keep trying desperately to maintain a couple relationship that neither of you actually wants or benefits from, simply because of the myth that couple-relationships are the most important thing in the world.

Thanks everyone

The enormity of this is hitting me and I am at work very very close to tears.

I talked to my mum and to a counsellor in the summer. Both said life as a single parent is very hard - my mum was one. My mum said that she had a lot of support as my dad just walked out for OW leaving her with two pre-schoolers and that I wouldnt have that.

The counsellor said that the grass isnt greener and that most marriages go through bad patches. Also that there isn't a queue of men wanting to take on someone with two small children.

DH came back saying if we can't communicate, if he thinks it is fine but I don't then what could our future be.

We decided that neither of us want to divorce, and put the plaster back on.

We are supposed to be exchanging on a new house this week. We have sold our lovely house and are renting in an area I don't know well where I have no friends

I feel like the numbness is wearing off and I just want to howl.

Very little in the way of real life support - I had/have lots of good women friends but with the grind of family life/ small children I don't see them very often now.

By the way, getting into another relationship is the least of my worries and I never want to marry again but I don't really want to be alone for ever and ever

You wouldn't be alone for ever and ever. I am a single parent and I find it's no tougher than being in a lonely marriage. I found new friendships and great support from those around me. I like just being me and I like giving my full attention to the kids. The first bit of separation & making the decision is painful & frightening but it truly gets easier.

Counsellors that tell you to put up and shut up in an unhappy marriage, trivialise it as a 'bad patch', use terms like 'the grass isn't greener' and suggest men don't like to 'take on' a mother with children sound like they qualified at Quack Academy .... what a ridiculous set of things to advise anyone. I'm utterly shocked that you've been subjected to such misogynistic, outdated claptrap.

I'm a single parent myself and independence has a great deal to be said for it. I have a great relationship with my DS and we are very close. I make all the decisions in my life - not defer to someone else. Everything I have I've earned. No, it's not always bed of roses but right now you describe yourself as desperate, suicidal and deeply lonely. No wonder you want to howl. How can being single possibly be worse?

I would question whether your counsellor is in a lonely marriage herself or is scared of dealing with the period of grief caused by the end of a marriage. It is true that leaving your marriage isn't going to involve riding off into the sunset, but neither is staying put. There are usually no black and white choices in real life. Ask yourself what do you want your life to be in 10 years?

I know. This is a very very experienced NHS CBT trained psychologist - not a counsellor. I have seen her on and off for years. I think she took her professional hat off and was talking is some other sort of capacity. I agree - it is off

My life in ten years - I don't know but I don't relish the thought of being a single parent to two teenagers, I have been the teenager in that situation and it looked bloody tough.

Need to sort out my career to as am in absoultely the wrong job for me.

Tbh I have always suffered from depression and never really been happy, so god knows if I ever can be.

Sorry, very self pitying - I have to keep it totally together at home for the children, this is my first day out of that environment.

I sound sodding pathetic

A big part of 'happy' is optimism. If you're looking 10 years ahead and already assuming that you'll still be single and that you'll have the exact same difficult experience as your mother then that's not being optimistic. Another big part of 'happy' is seizing the moment, taking opportunities, indulging in a little managed risk. A little fear keeps us sharp! Right now you're holding it together for the children, putting on a sticking plaster for your husband, letting your mother have a say, asking MN-ers..... everyone, in short, gets a higher priority than you. And it's making you call the Samaritans.

You said originally that for the first time you've been honest. Time to put yourself #1 in the picture more permanently. Be selfish. Change the career. Think less of other people and more of yourself.

Yes you can be happy, even if you have experienced depression over many years. Finding your honest path in life is part of that. I think the uncertainty you're in is harder than either outcome will be in the end.

Believe me that psychologists have real lives & their own blind spots (& I am very well placed to know this :)). You can question professional advice you're given, you are the expert on you. Separation, like pregnancy, is one of those areas that lots of people feel free to share their opinion and have firm ones. There is no one truth.

Similarly, there are as many different experiences of being a single parent as there are single parents. I was a teenager in a family with an unspoken unhappy marriage & there's not a lot to recommend that either.

Perhaps you're right and it's a good time to take stock of the job you do, because that will have a big impact on you whether you remain married or not.

You're in a hard place at the moment. This will pass.

It doesn't sound promising. You have been unhappy in this relationship for a long time so a lot of change is required - from both of you - in order for it to improve.

The question is, how much effort are you prepared to invest? If you both sign up to a major renovation plan of your marriage, you are in with a chance.

You may be interested in looking into imago therapy. You'd both have to go for a full weekend and it isn't cheap, but it's a lot more economical than divorce. While it may not save your marriage, it will help your relationship whether you stay together or split. And far better to separate calmly and rationally than during an emotional meltdown.

Your dh sounds like the sort of person who may be willing to do this.

I think totally might be right and your DH might be very reasonable if you do come to separate. Mine is and it makes it much much easier.

Me too, World. We do so much better apart than we did together. Always pays, always shows up on time, communicates everything required, flexible about changing arrangements. End result is children get two happy parents and everyone gets to live in conflict/tension-free zone.

The thing is, the way society is structured (because of the way it was set up, by men, in men's best interests) a lot of people are uneasy about a woman being single (the underlying reason for this is that it Gives Other Women Ideas, and if women feel they can survive without a male owner, who is going to look after men?) and women are encouraged and pressured and constantly reminded that they mustn't be single and that what they must actually do is please men. 'Working on the relationship' is always a matter of the woman surpressing herself and being more obedient and submissive and accommodating.
Bear in mind, OP, that if your H is a decent bloke (and you haven't said he isn't), you will not be a single parent, if you separate, you will be a co-parent. He will still be involved in DCs' lives. Amicable co-parenting means the other parent has always got your back in case of emergency, shares the parenting, gives you time off childcare, you just don't have the couple-relationship part.

I thought I don't want to deal with men any more..but I took myself off to do architecture at college and have found the most amazing funny guy who loves me and is prepared to take on the kids (aged 6-12) My eldest girl even said " if you guys are getting married I am picking the bridesmaids dresses".. We are geting a house together. I thought no one would ever want me with FOUR kids, and like you was resolved to a life of single parenting. Now I am looking forward to a new life with NP and time off from the kids (sounds bad but I have been an at home mum for 12 years!) a couple of days a week with XP. I have had the most confusing year of my life but i am loving each new adventure. Scary is not always a bad thing :)

Thanks everyone. He is a decent bloke - in fact that is an understatement, he is lovely, attractive, kind, clever and a fantastic partner. I think his big fear has been living in a bedsit and seeing the children once a week, and tbh I would hang on in all but the direst situation if that was what was on offer. He parents just as much as I do and adores the children.

Anyway, there is some freedom around our conversation now as he I think can see that there are options other than clinging on for dear life and I feel happier as we are at least communicating again. I think we will probably split up - but I am hopeful that we can do it fairly calmly. I don't know if we will do it yet, I think there is still a way to go.

I think THE loneliest thing about being in a not great marriage is that there are very few people you can talk to about it out of loyalty to your partner. I had a long chat on the phone last night with one of my very oldest friends and realised, that actually, I had lots of emotional support and very honest and deep relationships when I wasn't part of a couple.

I am in a similar position OP.

DH is a lovely, lovely man. It just feels like having kids has sucked the life out of our marriage. It's turned into a constant, passive aggressive pissing contest. I am sitting in my bedroom for the 3rd night in a row. We have nothing to say to one another, and I have never felt lonelier. We have been together for 20 years - married for 14. To consider ending it feels disloyal.

Everybody thinks we have a wonderful marriage/relationship, so it's impossible to confide in anybody.

I dream of just being on my own. Sadly, an absolute impossibility at the moment - we've over invested on our recent renovation and could not sell the house for what we owe on it. So no way out for me. I'll watch this thread with interest.

imoniket. i am in the same situation and I am moving out leaving him - lovely ex - in the house. 13 years of marriage. you feel diloyal, but really you are being disloyal to yourself by staying. you need to work out what you want. People change over time. I gave my all for 13 years and feel that for the past 6 has been the most difficult. i have tried and tried so no one can ever say that I haven't. the way out of it is to leave him with the house. You are under no obligation to sell the house for four years. You may be entitiled tofinancial help getting started on your own. there is always a way out, but it requires sacrifices. you have to decide which is more important.

we are sharing the kids so noone will be alone for very long.

I've spent the last week crying at odd times, grieving I suppose. I've gone to the doctors and got some sertraline - I feel very very low. I am also exhausted due to non sleeping DS2. DH has taken the day off work to look after him today, so I can rest.

I need to make the decision about pulling out of the house and I feel really sick. I can see that the best thing to do is just to pull the sticking plaster off fast really.

my heart goes out to you. So many fears.

BUT with a man like you describe, i think you can be happy apart, it sounds like you won't ever be alone.

One day when the kids are gone, what will you have left, what will you both have sacrificed. My ex does nothing, is unkind to me and to our child, I have suffered depression too, all my life, but you know what I am still here. My child is ok!! It's not been easy, but that's ONLY because my ex has abandoned our child. As Sgb said, you would co-parent. That has to be a good solution.