feeling guilty about stbxh is not a good reason not to separate is it?

[BizzieLizzy]

I'm mid-separation, after 12 years of marriage. As in it's been decided and we are in the process of selling our house and buying separate homes.
It was my 'decision'. We've been unhappy for years, me especially. Did Relate to no avail, drifting further and further apart, and I've been more and more separate, miserable and detached because I'm unhappy with dh, which isn't fair on the children, or great for me either.

I am looking forward to being free and my own boss (dh is a bit passive aggressive and controlling; he's not a bad man though) but I feel so guilty. None of this is what he wants. We are selling our lovely house. My new home (if it goes through) is lovely, his will be more modest. I feel awful about this, like I don't deserve it. We have a cottage in the country (currently in my name) and dh loves it, so I've told him he should have it. He will have a greater share of the property than me. This feels right. I only want what I need.

But I feel awful that I'm effectively making dh homeless when he's having a difficult time at work, and depriving him of living with his dc full time. I wish I could see a future for us together but I can't, and I know we have to do this. I don't make him happy at all.

He's being good about it, mostly, but he's really down and I feel awful. I'm also terrified of being on my own and running a household with no support. That sounds pathetic but I've never done it. Dh is 14 years older than me and he's always done a lot of the grown up stuff.

I'm finding because I am the one that 'wants' this (God knows I never wanted my marriage to break up and there's noone else involved fwiw) people seem to think I'm not entitled to feel upset about it.

But the burden of guilt at doing this is awful.

Sorry this is long. There must be people out there who've done this and come out the other side. I want a bit of reassurance I think. I want to be kind to dh because I feel sorry for him, but I can't because it's so patronising. And I know he isn't 'on my side' any more and I miss that, though I want to be my own person and away from him.

Any stories from people who've come out the other side of this?

Haven't been in this situation but do bear in mind that he could have changed his behaviour and made more of an effort, but he didn't. At least half the blame for the marriage ending is his.

And it really is better to separate kindly and politely and form a good co-parent relationship instead of dragging on a failed couple-relationship to the point where you really hate each other.

OP don't feel guilty its a very misplaced emotion. Look at it logically, you are probably going to have the children on a far more regular basis, as in they will live with you most of the time, so you need the larger property.

Thanks for responses. Miss F I know this is true but I suppose I feel like I don't deserve it. The house I'm buying is actually as big as the family home, albeit in a less salubrious location. I feel like I'm getting a big house 'for free'. I haven't worked since I had dd1. I'm now doing a full time Uni course that will take me into a secure career. Dh has been supportive of me in this, I suppose partly because he thought it was about 'our' future, and now it's only going to be about mine. Though I suppose it makes me less dependent and for less time.

Dh has worked for years in a job he hates, it's his own business and it's being hammered in the recession, plus they have wrangles with their landlord and one of his best staff left this week. I feel like I'm ruining his life and kicking him when he's down.

He's going to see a house tomorrow. His budget is 2/3 of mine - he needs less space because I need live-in childcare. The house has potential, but it's very neglected. It wants gutting and re-doing. Good thing is, it's about a 3 minute walk from where I'm going, I like the idea that dd can be in and out of our houses all the time.

But I feel awful at the thought of him losing his home and ending up in some depressing shithole, albeit temporarily.

I guess I'm being self indulgent and hypocritical. It's impossible to say I want to separate and still want to be his friend and support him and want support from him, isn't it?

Of course you are entitled to feel upset. It's the end of a relationship that was at one time I'm sure incredibly special to you. Making a decision to leave must have been really tough. Who are the people who don't think you should be upset - friends, family, your H himself?

As for his job etc being bad at the moment, it is never a good time to break up so don't beat yourself up about it. Maybe the change in your relationship will trigger him to do something about it.

Good luck with it all and remember why you made this decision in the first place.

I haven't worked since I had dd1

So, you had a live in nanny, a ft cleaner and a cook? :)

And you have been supporting him running his business, which from now on will be for himself only and not both of you.

You will have a bigger house, but also a child living there.

Your point was?

I don't think it should be you to feel guilty.

OP, try not to compare your new life with that of your DH. You have made your choices, as has he. If he wishes to buy a run down property then that is his choice, he could choose to do differently if he wasn't happy with it. By all means feel sad that your relationship has to come an end, it is sad, but don't feel guilty and certainly don't feel responsible for your DH and his choices.

Enjoy your freedom and your new life. It sounds great!

No - you can't let it stop you doing this. You haven't done it on a whim, you are incredibly unhappy and sadly it needs to happen :(

Please though, stop for a moment and gather your thoughts. In time you will see that he is equally to 'blame' (responsible) for this. At which point it will be too late to go back and redistribute assets. Think very carefully about giving too much away (ie the cottage). You will have the responsibility for DD (so the tie, the vast majority of the expense, higher overheads etc) and he will be free to commit as much time as he wants to his business and his property, so he can 'gain' assets much more quickly than you will be able to.

I would also think very carefully about living so close to each other. At the moment you feel so bloody guilty that you are over compensating. However, in a years time when you have emotionally separated from this situation and he's walking past every 5 minutes, dropping by because he was on his way past, making comment about a certain car being there a lot... it is more than likely to drive you completely mad. A good 10 minute drive is the bare minimum I'd go for.

I didn't have kids - but I 'wanted' a separation as well, he didn't. I felt like crap for him but also for me, it hurt because even though it was no longer 'good' you still have a lot of memories, you still love them and you are losing the future you had planned :( You don't want this - you want it to be the way it should be, you want to be happy in this relationship, you want to stay with the father of your child, you want to be loved, you want him on your side - but you have realised you can't have what you want so you are doing what you can. Anyone who thinks you shouldn't hurt or it should be easy has clearly lived a charmed life or is a maytre.

Stay strong and take some time out to think about how to proceed.

I think it's natural to feel sad about the break-up of a marriage regardless whose choice it was to end it. You also say he's a good man and I think it's a positive thing that you've got empathy for his situation i.e. that he is undergoing lots of losses at once.

I couldn't understand a couple of bits though. Why won't he need 'live in' childcare? Wouldn't your intention be that the children will stay with him on a regular basis? You also say you are studying for a vocational qualification that will lead to a career, so you will be working in the imminent future and will presumably need to divide the childcare? While it might make sense that the children's residence is mainly with you right now as the SAHP, I'm assuming you'll want more of a 50-50 split when you start working? That would also remove some of the financial burden from your husband if his business is struggling and this could give him different and happier work opportunities.

50-50 arrangements usually involve both adults supporting themselves independently and paying all the costs of the children on a 50-50 basis (or in some cases, a figure proportionate to income). In the best of cases where both parents are co-operative, these shared care arrangements work really well for everyone concerned, especially the children. They don't lose out on living with a much-loved parent and therefore aren't forced to 'choose' one over the other. For the adults, it means that both can work (or socialise!) long hours on the days they don't have the children and there isn't the burden of spousal maintenance or an inability to work at all because of childcare.

If 50-50 residence is what you're aiming for, it makes much more sense for the two homes to be close and ideally walking distance for the children. I take Chipping's point about the potential for invasions of your privacy, but you can discuss boundaries about that before it happens. This is really about what's best for the children, not you as individuals.

One of the advantages of a forum such as this is that you will get a variety of opinions :)

I actually think 50/50 shared care is not good for children. My belief is they need a home where their lives are run from and where their stuff is. There is nothing stopping them spending time at the other parents home and it being their 'other' home, but 50/50 is disruptive and unsettling in all but the rarest of cases.

It is not just about what is best for the children - it is about what is best for all of you. Being a 10 minute drive away from their Dad will be fine for the children, being around the corner from each other will (in most cases) be A Very Bad Thing and will cause a lot of friction & upset - which is not good for the children. You can discuss boundaries all you like - but there is feck all you can do to enforce them.

Many thanks to all of you have responded to my thread.
Chipping this is so true:

even though it was no longer 'good' you still have a lot of memories, you still love them and you are losing the future you had planned

I am so sad about it. I'm finding now it's all actually in process I am remembering all the happy times. They were long ago and I had buried the memories but they are all rising to the surface and making me hanker after the dreams we had then. It's all very confusing but I suppose it's just part of the process.

Hatty to respond to your queries, he won't need live in childcare because he has his own business and can work from home when he needs to. He will have a lot more flexibility than me. My timetable is far less flexible. It equates to a full time job, but it's not always the same hours like a full time job. It changes from one week to the next. We get the timetables at short notice, then usually we know what we are doing for the following six to eight weeks, then it is all change again.

Also there are tough exams every year and will be for years after qualification. So in the run up to exams I can spend less time with the children. We have an au pair, this works well when you get a good one and I will carry on having them after I move. Dh doesn't plan to have one.

I will start working in two years' time, won't be earning that much to start with (much less than people expect) and I will have to work nights as well as days. Then we will have to work out childcare arrangements differently I suspect.

TFMADD you are right, I have to tell myself that he is making his own choices. I am not 'forcing' him into anything. I may be forcing the separation, but in many ways I feel forced into this because things aren't right and I'm the only one who is prepared to make these changes. DD are everything to him and he'd want us under the same roof however bad it is, and that's not right for any of us.

Fwiw, we have had years of recriminations about who's 'fault' it is that our marriage hasn't worked and while I no longer care about this and think that it is simply that we don't work well together and haven't grown well together as a couple, I think he was 'more to blame'. In the early years I did everything to try to make him happy and he was grumpy and emotionally abusive. I begged him to change and to go to counselling, but when we did, and he made efforts to change, this was only after I'd said I wanted a divorce. I had given him countless warnings of how his behaviour was killing my feelings and I resent that he only made efforts to change when it was already too late. He is a lot older than me as well - when we met I was 25 and he was 39. I've grown out of living with a disapproving Victorian father figure, which is what he turned into when we had the kids.

I now see it as just one of those things, nobody's fault really, more like what happens when you try and mix oil and water together. We have grown apart more and more and challenges we have faced in our marriage have pushed us further apart rather than together.

We are usually very much in agreement about the dc though, and prepared to support each other as parents. I'm kind of hoping if we are released from the burden of being husband and wife we might be able to be friends again, something we haven't been for years. Maybe that's naive. I think it's partly this hope that makes me think it would be good to live close together, but I will give careful thought to this issue. Those who have pointed out the potential pitfalls of this have made me realise it might not be ideal.

Thanks again.

It does sound like you have made the right decision, so trust in that decision and don't waste time on guilt or looking back. How your H handles the break up is up to him so you concentrate on yourself and your DC's and don't feel responsible for his emotions or feelings.

Good luck with your future BizzieLizzy

I wrongly assumed when you said 'live-in childcare' that you meant the children didn't have to have bedrooms at his house - sorry! I take it though that you still anticipate the children staying with him for periods of time?

I know quite a few children who live in 2 homes and they are very happy, so that's not my experience Chipping. It took a while to sort out in one of the families concerned because there was a lot of bitterness involved in the split (infidelity) but it's working fine now. It seems pretty seamless in the other families I know. I think it depends on the children concerned and how co-operative the parents are with eachother.

Conversely you see, I also know a child who very much resents that he can't live with his Dad at least part of the time. He detests the man his mum left for and is forced to live with him until he is old enough to make the choice. I don't know if his Dad even realises that shared parenting is becoming more of a norm now and when the couple split up, just seemed to accept the 'default' of the mum retaining residence. That's best for her, but it's certainly not what's best for her son.

Thanks for your good wishes TFMADD.

Hatty yes absolutely I am expecting them to live with both of us. I need a bigger house because I need an extra bedroom for the au pair, that's all. DD will have bedrooms at both our houses. Tbh, because of my course, and because I find the family unit oppressive, he spends a lot of time on his own with dd anyway. I've let him take them off for bike rides etc, or to the cottage for the weekend because for a long time I haven't really wanted to be around him. The excuse has been to let me study, but often I've just been at home on my own feeling depressed and missing my children, because this is the price I have to pay to have time away from dh.

It's not satisfactory obviously and I feel like I want to reclaim my relationship with dd on my own terms. It hasn't broken down at all, but dh always wants to do everything in the nuclear family unit. He adores the girls. But this is one of the reasons things have gone wrong for us I think. When they came along we stopped doing things as a couple, I just felt he lost interest in me really, and became grown up and responsible to an excessive degree. I was used to having my own life and friends, but dh would only want to spend his time with us. He stopped spending time with his friends. He'd never go to the pub or off to play golf like many men do.

He thought I should be grateful for this, having a husband who wants to be at home all the time. Since I started my course, I get no time with dd on my own. If I suggest doing something together with them, he will suggest we all do it, unless it's shopping, which he doesn't think of as something worthwhile to do (unlike going for walks, bike rides etc). So I feel on the outside in my own family. He, on the other hand, gets them to himself loads, because I need to study, but it's never reciprocated. He gets to be the primary parent, which suits him because he is quite jealous.

If we separate, I will get time to myself with dd and I love that. I can be myself with them much more when he isn't around, because he used to be so critical I can't relax when he's around and I'm always feeling like I'm doing something wrong. (History is that for years he would be pissed off about something, often something small, but would insist there was nothing wrong. I would know there was, and beg him to tell me, which he would, eventually, after days of sullen behaviour and my begging to know what I'd done). Now he's less critical and nicer to me but I can't let go of the feelings of insecurity and inadequacy.

If you got a puppy and beat it for the first two years (hypothetically speaking, obviously) and never did again, it wouldn't get over it. It would still cringe five years later if you raised your hand. I feel our marriage is like this, the damage can't be undone.

Sorry for such a rant, I suppose I'm grappling with all this, trying to reassure myself I'm doing the right thing.

And I do feel really sorry for dh though I know he's made his bed in so many ways. It's been the same with work, after dc came along he resented the time he spent at work and the fact that he's never been positive towards it is a factor in things going tit-sup since the recession hit. He was happy to chug along when the work was abundant and got too complacent.

He's always been a half-empty cup sort of person and I was the opposite. He's drained the life out of me and I've become such a sad person. I know it can change, but only if I escape, but there's a huge price to pay with the guilt :(

We're still under the same roof and it's difficult. I want to spend as much time as I can with dc, so I'm quite reclusive and not seeing my friends. I feel like I'm hibernating and waiting for life to start.

Thanks everyone who has read my thread and taken the time to comment and give advice and support.

From the outside it is so clear that you are doing the right thing - so I hope that gives you something to hang onto.

It is incredibly hard, no matter who instigates it. You just have to cling onto your vision for the future and wade through this treacle.

It really will be so much better x

Just like to say..though it was my decision to seperate...etc...and the marriage was difficult...emotionally and mentally...does not stop me from feeling sad and remembering some good times together with the children.He didnt want to seperate........says I have 'messed' his life up good and proper...BUT couldnt live the way he wanted for the rest of my days!!
Its hard.....but You will get there...dont feel guilty x

smiley thanks for your message. Your situation sounds similar to mine. I felt like that too, just couldn't live like that forever, too soul destroying. Though no real horrors like infidelity or DV. I've got people who think I'm mad getting rid of a 'perfectly good husband'.

May I ask how far along you are with your separation? Is it early days or has it been a while now? Do you have children and if so, how are they doing? Mine seem fine, so far.

Sorry, I've just read again - you do have children. Mine are 11 and 9 btw.

Hi, just wanted to add my support too, I am also in a similar position with having to take ultimate responsibility for ending my marrriage. Dh moved out a year ago after having what basically amounted to an EA with his best friends girlfriend - I had a thread about it last year under a different name.

After a few months though he wanted to try and work at things and see if we could get back together but by then I had rediscovered so much of myself and found that I preferred being on my own with the kids, so I said no and that I wanted to formally separate which will happen in the near future.

It's been really sad, the kids are upset but coping fine and he is really gutted too and in some ways I really wish I could fall back in love with him and make it all ok again but I can't.

I just think now, you only get one life and yes I could probably muddle along with him for the sake of the kids without too much devastation but my heart just isn't in it - even though he hasn't done that much wrong. The guilt is terrible sometimes but I know I'm doing the right thing coz I just don't love him enough and I think it's better to let him find someone else who does.

I think it sounds as though you are doing the right thing so don't beat yourself up, however I would aldo question just how close you should live to him as this could well come to be a bit of a nightmare in the future.

in some ways I really wish I could fall back in love with him and make it all ok again but I can't.

This is just how I feel. I really appreciate you sharing your experience jacey, it does help to feel that I am not the only one. I'm not sure if I could 'muddle along' for that much longer, it seems to get no better and I'm withering away.

It hasn't helped that my mum (who I have issues with for years anyway) thinks I'm mad and ungrateful to do what I'm doing. I can remember her being unhappy at about the age I'm at now, and tbh I don't think my dad was ever her Mr Right (but he too, is a good man and married her after her reputation and body had been wrecked by having twins after a holiday romance and giving them up for adoption). She and my dad had such a limited life compared with the one I want but now they are 70+ and they are like a little old couple. I don't want to end up like that.

I spoke to her the other day, after having a really stressful couple of days negotiating a price for our house from a private buyer and getting an offer accepted on one I wanted. All she could do was talk about how sad dh looked, and go on and on about his troubles at work. It's almost as if she enjoys the tragedy of it all.

Not sure I ever want to be with anyone else ever. I just want to be on my own and my own boss and a good mum.

A lot of our friends have rallied round to support dh as well. I've found it really hurtful that they haven't done the same to me, because I'm the instigator. I suppose it's normal for this to happen :(

Thanks Lizzie, sounds like we are in a similar situaion in a lot of ways really, I could have written most of your last post myself - especially the part about not wanting anyone else but just to be on your own and a good mum, which it sounds as though you really are.

I can really relate to what you say about your mum - mine is seriously disapproving of my decision too. She and my dad are ok but there's no great love there, they bicker and snipe at each other all the time and she is very bright but has always been a sahm and I think she's actually quite miserable and unfulfilled. I think when we make different choices to people it can make them question their own and that's really uncomfortable for them, they almost want us to validate their own choices by doing the same but I can't do that unfortunately so she'll just have to deal with it!

It's a shame about your friends, mine and dh's have pretty much stayed neutral luckily although there are some that he sees more of and some that I do. Maybe down the line when they see how much happier you are they'll know that you did the right thing and it was the for the best?

she is very bright but has always been a sahm and I think she's actually quite miserable and unfulfilled

Mine too!! Well, she was a part time secretary for my dad's firm when he was still working, but not until we went to secondary school. She was a shorthand typist before she married, having been 'top of the class' in everything at grammar school. But never went to Uni or anything like that. Not that it's everything of course, but she could have easily - my three siblings and I are all Oxbridge graduates (despite having had NO encouragement/praise from her when we were at school).

Now my dad is semi-retired and they potter around living the life of Riley. They're not well off but they haven't got money problems either. And she moans all the time to me about how busy and tired she is. She's too busy to call me for example, though I manage to call her despite doing my course and commuting and having two kids and separating etc.

I think the thing with friends is, they haven't taken sides as such, they're not rallying round dh in an 'isn't Mrs dh a bitch?' kind of way. It's just when we first decided we were separating he sent a round robin email to all of them entitled 'sad news' explaining what was happening and that it was 'because mrs dh hasn't been happy being married to me for several years' and also saying how awful it all was for dc. I didn't know about this until I got a text from one of the recipients a few days later. I wasn't annoyed with him for doing it, he's hurt. But since then people have been falling over themselves and he has a much better social life than I do. He had two holidays planned staying with friends in Cornwall and France within about two weeks and he's going out to gigs with his mates a fair bit.

I can't complain, he's finally accepted the need to separate - this took years - and to his credit he's moving on with his life. I am not. I've been reclusive and silent. I don't contact people apart from girlfriends who are very much mine and it's like I said, I feel I am hiding away waiting for life to move on. A lot of this is because of the awful guilt :(

Thanks for your support, it's really helping to offload. No one I know is in this situation. I've got a few divorced friends who were married to adulterers/wife beaters, but the rest are all happily or not so happily married. I feel very isolated.

BizzieLizzy, truly none of my business, but what happened to the twins your Mom had? Did they ever seek out her and you and siblings? What a blessing they would have been to adoptive parents.

Hansie, I don't mind telling you. I only found out about them myself two years ago. They are 8 years older than me. Mum never told any of us. My dad always knew, they weren't his though.

They had a good life with their adoptive parents - who were quite a bit older than my mum and died a few years ago. They had encouraged them to find their natural parents if they wished, but they didn't want to do this when they were alive. After they had mourned them they tracked down my mum using an agency so she was forced to tell us about them.

It was a massive shock finding out. I felt massive sympathy for my mum but I still don't understand why she kept it a secret and never will. I know it was a different time then, etc, but I have always told my mum everything. I had an unwanted pregnancy myself at the same age when I was at Uni and she never told me. In fact she encouraged me to continue with the pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption - wtf?

She also used to tell me about a friend of hers who gave up a baby but never mentioned her own. Still can't get my head round it. My sister and I used to talk all the time about how mum seemed to 'prefer' our brothers to us. We were older than the boys and born within a year of each other - so called 'Irish twins'. We got mistaken for twins I am sure. It must have been hard for mum.

Much, much more positively, the twins are lovely women - warm, smart and funny. Their father is Italian and mine Anglo-Saxon but there are a lot of similarities. When we first met one of them was wearing a quite distinctive top and I had the same one packed in my bag for the following day! They're not identical and one of them looks much, much more like mum than I or any of my siblings do, which is strange. We all get on but live at different ends of the country. I'm going to visit them in a couple of weeks.

Can you believe, the adoption people in the early sixties asked mum if she wanted them split up or to be adopted together? That they would even ask... it was very different times. Of course she insisted they be kept together and she says it made it a little more bearable knowing they would have each other.

Have you been affected by adoption Hansie?