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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is this infidelity?

49 replies

Clolan · 12/04/2012 23:48

Have recently discovered my DH has been having nightly chats with an ex from many years ago... They are "innocent", but there is flirting and I am not sure how to deal with this. I really feel betrayed. He has opened up to her and they a have had meaningful and deep talks... Why do I feel as though he is being unfaithful? It may sound silly but I would rather he had had meaningless sex than deep chats with an ex I have never even met...

OP posts:

Hattytown · 13/04/2012 12:09

This ticks all the boxes for infidelity.

It's secret, they fancy one another (or rather they fancied eachother when they were young and despite what is probably contradictory photographic evidence, they still 'see' eachother as then) and they are sharing intimacies.

This is such a depressingly common situation. She's going through a marriage break-up and decides she needs her ego boosting, so she chooses the safe bet of someone who once liked her. She 'friends' him and they start talking.

He tells himself that despite you having absolutely no form for jealousy, you will react badly to him being in contact with Ms. Saddo, so he keeps schtum. The truth is he wants to see how far this will lead and is enjoying himself.

He pours the sympathy on with a trowel and simultaneously stops mentioning you and how happy he is in his status updates. If she asks about you and your relationship, he underplays it.

She thinks oh what a lovely man, so unlike my ex husband. I bet his wife doesn't realise how lucky she is! Grrrr...and he doesn't sound too happy either. I bet it's a loveless marriage and he's only there for the kids.....so I'll start complimenting him.

He thinks....oh poor Ms. Saddo. Her ex sounds like a bastard. It's important I show her that not all men are like this. I'll build her up a bit and tell her she's lovely and any man would be proud to be with her. I must admit I feel ten feet tall when she says all these nice things. All Clolan does is bark orders and get pissed off when I'm on the internet all the time......

That my love is the script. He can tell you and himself that he 'doesn't know' why he kept this a secret, but he's lying.

AnyFucker · 13/04/2012 12:12

the next step is they arrange to meet for "coffe and a chat", all done secretly of course

the rest you can guess, and they would both deny all along they were planning anything physical to happen, they just got "swept away"

MyDogShitsShoes · 13/04/2012 12:13

Fucking hell hatty that is scarily accurate

Hattytown · 13/04/2012 12:15

Yes and as this is now the coitus interruptus phase of the script, your H will deny he ever 'saw her that way', or that she 'isn't that sort of girl' and at some point he will pretend that if she had ever asked for this to be more than friendship, he would have fucked her off. As you can imagine, the truth is that the last word in that sentence is redundant.

AnyFucker · 13/04/2012 12:18

the false glitter and lure of going back to some point in your past where you perceived yourself as young and full of opportunities is very tantalising (for some self absorbed people)

Original poster

Clolan · 13/04/2012 14:27

I think you are right... except for one little "safety net" that he claims - she lives 6000 miles away so meeting up is not an option and thus it could never have gone any further...
However I still feel that that is just logistics and that if the opportunity was there....
He says he loves me and I mean the world to him - i just don't know how I will ever trust him again. I really want to try though and want to see if he is serious about working it out...

OP posts:

Hattytown · 13/04/2012 15:14

Yes but the distance involved just aids the denial of those involved. In fact the flirting will often be more extreme because they know they can't do anything about it and it's just a nice fantasy. You say he claims she lives that far away - you have checked all this haven't you? And he has shown you all their correspondence hasn't he? I hope he didn't have any 'deletion opportunities' before you made that request.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking this has happened because he didn't love you. He's telling the truth about that at least. Crap like this is done by nice people who love their partners and are happy with them. But those same nice people are often weak, driven by their egoes, succeptible to flattery and are heavily into 'self-rewards' such as 'I work hard, pay my taxes, I deserve some 'harmless' fun.' Some of those people also get a thrill out of having a secret from the rest of the world.

None of that's got anything to do with you, but it impacts on you because the other thing about 'nice' people is that they can be really selfish when it suits them. So because they want to do something, they put their partner's feelings about it last. They justify the secret by claiming that what you don't know cannot hurt you. What they really mean is that if you knew, you'd get in the way of something they want to keep doing.

AnyFucker · 13/04/2012 15:50

who used the term "safety net"...you or him ?

has he blocked all access with her, with you as witness ?

Pan · 13/04/2012 16:27

Iam liking your analysis of the potential of 'nice people' to act selfishly and with ego afore thought Hatty. As a sort of corollary, I have known lots of people who appear as not 'nice' and can be inter-personally difficult, but steer away from this sort of stuff.

fwiw agree wit heveryone else - the 'safety net' of 6,000 miles is no 'safety net' for his emotions.

camaleon · 13/04/2012 16:34

If you have read all the texts and it is not sexual, no opportunity to meet I would (myself) not considered it infidelity. I would not like the secret and would be jealous, but I would see it as a boost of self-esteem, catching up with a nice memory.
But this is me. I am not sure we a good relationship means 'no secrets' at all. For sure he is openning a window to an opportunity but I believe many persons do without ever thinking of acting on it. I may be wrong but I think there is not only ONE script for everything.

lazarusb · 13/04/2012 17:46

I think any kind of shared intimacy, no matter the physical distance, is infidelity. It is corrosive and nasty and can have huge emotional implications. It's that side which can be just as damaging as the physical imo.

stargazy · 13/04/2012 18:25

Quick post to say you've been on my mind all day.Almost 2 years post discovery for me and I stil get overwhelming sad at times when I read posts like yours and I feel almost like I did the day I found out.Was several months of contact and texting for my DH and tbh not sure I've really forgiven him totally.But we run a business tiogether and for various reasons- mainly the first and only time he'd done anything like this in almost 30 years I' ve stuck with it.Mostly I' m glad.Just be kind to yourself and expect good days and bad.It's really down to him now to prove he will never get sucked into this sort of situation again.Hope you get some sleep.Hugs.

Original poster

Clolan · 13/04/2012 18:38

Stargazy thank you! I really needed to hear that. We have been together for almost 20 years and I do want to try and make it work. I cannot get my head around it all yet, but I don't think I want to throw away so much over this. Yes it is up to him now, and i just hope he comes through....

OP posts:

Original poster

Clolan · 21/04/2012 22:46

He just doesn't get it. Have spent the last week trying to get thru to him how I feel and that this is not on. He still refers to it as something that happened rather than something he did. Why do me find it so hard to admit they are at fault? Or is it just my imagination?

OP posts:

Dee34 · 21/04/2012 23:00

Hi - I would also echo recommendations about the Shirley Glass book. Very insightful. Ditto - comments from a previous poster about an emotional connection thing being worse than casual sex (not to say that the latter is acceptable in any way in a committed monogamous relationship). I think when that emotional connection is made, it is an easy next step for someone to convince themselves that this new person is so in tune with them, completely understands them etc etc and the unaware partner at home (who is dealing with real life and indeed once was as in tune, understanding as the new person) becomes the outsider. Not saying that that is necessarily the next step in your case, but definitely better to confront this now IMHO.

I have friends who have been in similar situations who have nipped it in the bud (sorry, sounds flippant but cant think how else to describe it) as the wavering partner got a good sharp shock of what they were doing/what they stood to lose etc. Its one thing to have friends of the opposite sex and indeed even ex's from way down the line, but if you sense something, it's probably best to pay attention to that feeling.....

AnyFucker · 21/04/2012 23:05

it's not your imagination, love

he did it because he felt like it

because he felt entitled to....it didn't "just happen"

there was a series of boundaries he had to cross...and he justifed every one of them in his own thread

don't listen to him saying it was "nothing"....it was "something" to you...how dare he minmise your feelings ?

AnyFucker · 21/04/2012 23:06

own head

stargazy · 22/04/2012 08:07

Oh I feel for you.I was so frustrated and angry when my DH said 'it just happened' and that he hadn't planned anything.It just sort of went from day to day.I was furious.Nothing like this just happens.You make a concious decision to pick up your phone/ reply to a text/ arrange the next meeting.
What I realise now was he was also in shock at being found out, and a lot of denial.He had gone into this ' affair bubble' gradually over months.When I pointed out to him that he would never have sent sexually explicit texts out of the blue months earlier he was realised how bit by bit he had given himself permission to be a bit more flirty, a bit more familiar each day.And they had chatted - a lot- at work and by text about normal ordinary stuff to start with.And then he'd become secretive about their friendship because he knew it was too much,too often.
Try to hang in there and stay calm,but don't accept any excuses.I really hope he has a wake up moment as my DH did when he got it, but as it starts small and builds up gradually they won't always allow themselves to ' see it ' immediately if that makes sense? Made me more upset than original 'thing' in my experience.All the best.

Hattytown · 22/04/2012 08:29

I get the impression that you have quite low expectations of him Clolan and possibly men in general. You say in relation to the man on that other thread that was linked 'not many men will open up like that' and in your later posts - 'why do men find it so hard to admit they are at fault?'

If you focus on your husband, it seems that what you're actually saying is that the particular man you're married to won't open up and will never admit he's at fault.

He does 'get this' incidentally, because even he isn't so obtuse to deny that if you had a secret friendship with an ex, his own alarm bells would be ringing. But he has decided that the best way of dealing with this is to convince you that you are over-reacting. He's also using passive language ('it happened') to evade responsibility for it. He has also judged that you are desperate to stay in the marriage what ever happens and won't leave him over this, so there will be no consequences for what's happened apart from this fairly minor bit of grief.

So your strategy should be to change your own behaviour. Raise your expectations and the standards you expect of a loving partner. Refuse to tolerate this level of disrespect and don't feel that you have to stay with someone who behaves like this.

He will treat you and your marriage from now on in exactly the way you will allow him to. And if you accept this treatment then he will do worse later.

Abitwobblynow · 22/04/2012 13:23

he doesn't know hwy he didn't tell me.

Yes he does. He didn't tell you because he had a new, secret enjoyable window and he didn't want you in it. He didn't tell you because he KNEW he didn't want you part of it.

That is called a secret.

This is the beginning of the slippery slope and you caught it. The progression? What Hatty says.

One download I HEARTILY recommend is Lindajmacdonald 'Who will you become'? It is a warning to people who are thinking about having ahappylittlesecret, and it is devastating.

Abitwobblynow · 22/04/2012 13:23

Give it to him. Ask him to read it out loud to you.

Abitwobblynow · 22/04/2012 13:24

And how sad that you, along with the rest of us, doubt your instincts and your feelings and argue with them!

Bluepetticoat · 22/04/2012 15:00

I think it is possible that it IS innocent.

When my marriage was going through a bad patch many years ago, I did talk ( not often though) to a significant ex. There was absolutely nothing in it because he was an ex for a reason ( as MN love to remind us). He put a stop to the sharing because his (new) wife was jealous. I was very peeved because he was simply a listening ear and there was no way I wanted him back.

AnyFucker · 22/04/2012 15:44

Blue...it wasn't "innocent" though was it, because it was hurtful to his wife

these "innocent" things always hurt somebody

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