help me make sense of this (affair related)

[timespentthinking]

18 months ago, my H admitted to an affair after months of obnoxious behaviour. I kicked him out, but after a few weeks we agreed to give things a go, mainly for the sake of the DC. Then followed 16 months of on/off toxicity, with short ok periods interspersed with him saying yet more hurtful things, taking very little responsibility for what he did, and me unable to stop hurting and obsessing about it (not surprisingly) etc.

Last month I reached the end of my tether and I told him to leave. We discussed where he should move to, finances, division of child care.

Less than a week later he had to go away for a few days, and he came back different. He said he had realised that he didn't want to be the "old" H, he wanted to face up to his mistakes and be a better person, that he loved me and didn't want to lose me. He has since applied for a new job in a different town (a big thing for him, he has been at his current place for nearly his entire working life and flatly refused to even consider leaving before), he has started reading the Shirley Glass book, opening up about what he did, telling me he loves me every day.

But... firstly, the affair was long. Years. Nearly all of our youngest DC's life at the time, give or take. It has made a total mockery of our family life for that entire period. I can't look at photos of those years without feeling sick. And secondly, it has taken him 18 months - 18 months! - to start facing up to this.

I don't know what to make of it.

Have you actually discussed this with the DCs and asked them what they'd prefer? You say they are teenagers, so they are old enough to tell you honestly whether they'd prefer him there or not. It's just you allude to him having a strained relationship with them because of all the havoc he's created. Maybe they'd prefer he left?

I think you have to be honest with yourself most of all about what you want to do and why you want to do it. Sometimes people say they are only staying for the children's sake and it turns out that the children don't want that and it therefore wasn't for their sake at all. It's okay to admit it's for your sake or even his, because you still love him. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, but at least you wouldnt be deluding yourself about the real reasons for your actions and means you'll take responsibility for those decisions.

I hope this thread has helped you process some of this, but I get the impression you knew when you started it that you were going to retract your request for him to leave. Hopefully you've been able to process the potential consequences of that decision, good and bad - and worked out which are more likely. Good Luck OP.

Chucking him out would be counter-productive because I wouldn't see what he is changing day-to-day, how he reacts to my up and down emotions, see how he is with the DC etc, all the stuff that needs to improve there is a chance of saving our marriage.

Because of this, the request to leave had been shelved shortly after he started his quest to change, long before today. It's still there though if he mucks up, he knows that.

But I can see this is still about him in many ways, and I needed to hear that. I am not even sure that he does love me like he says he does. There are still so many unknowns. Keeping sight of what's important is tough.

I don't think it is possible for a person capable of treating you so deceitfully over such a long period of time to be described as actually loving you.

That's the trouble - its what everyone has immediately focused on - this wasn't an affair borne out of a period of stress, a quickly regretted mistake, a lapse of judgement. This is about this man being a rotten character. I find it hard to believe that that has changed, and everything you have said about what is happening in your relationship now says to me that he is still manoeuvring and manipulating do that things are arranged the best way for him.

Yes you would be able to see how he was changing and relating to the DC if he didn't live there. As regards the latter presumably he would be forced to step up and actually prove himself able to sacrifice time and energy to step p to the plate.

I think you are being very successfully manipulated by what sounds like a man who has changed not one iota. He's still doing what he wants - the difference is what his attention is focused on now is staying with his feet under the table.

OP reading your post it felt like I was writing it. My STBXH did exact the same to me...longtime affair for most of my youngest life and 12 months of on/off post discovery. I took him back for the last time in the new year. He told me all the right things and told the DC that he was coming home forever. But men like this never change it is always about them. My STBXH has gone back to the OW. But I have come to realise now that me and my DC deserve better. It's been hard and continues to be hard at the moment but my DC and I are much happier now that he is not around. I missed the man I married and wasn't prepared to give up on my marriage to create a family unit for my DC and I thought I still loved him. But he destroyed that the day he started his affair.

If you truly think that you can make it work then it will take time and I always say actions speak louder than words. He will need to regain your respect and prove to you that he really wants to make a go off things not just for the DC but for you.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I was scared to be on my own but I now realise that it's the best thing I could have done for me and my DC.

God I really need to namechange...!?

I couldn't sleep last night. He called to say he didn't get the new job (though he could have done if he'd applied sooner - he sent a spontaneous application and they were very interested in him but they had just recruited someone else). He sounded really disappointed - he was counting on it as a big part of his new start and was quite enthusiastic at the prospect, and he knows that him staying in his current job is not ok with me.

I do wonder if he loves me like he says he does. Of if he's still deceiving me, and maybe himself, so as to be able to stay. And I agree completely that the deceit he is capable of and the length of the affair are so horrific that for me to get past it and for him to change his whole character can look like impossible mountains to climb. Sigh.

Thank you FeelingAlone (your name probably suits me better than you now!). These stupid, selfish men. Good to know that you and DC are happier despite him.

So he told you during the 18 months that he would unfaithful again is that right? What else did he do and say during this time? It sounds like he was really horrible to you. Despite the fact he nearly lost you and should have been doing everything he could to reassure you and win you back.

That's really awful! That must have been a horrible time and i am surprised you stuck with it.

It sounds like he is only nice to you when he is about to lose you. That's not sustainable. I had an ex like that. Would get me back and go quickly back to his old ways. Seeing as he treated you so badly for so long i can't see him being any different.

I think you can see that this process is just going to repeat itself the more chances you give it. If you were to take him back now and play at happy families what has he actually learned from his actions? Only that you are weak and gullible.

Are you really prepared to be treated so disgustingly? Are you prepared to allow your children to think its an acceptable way for the person they love most in the world to be treated in the same way? And for what? All you have is a promise from a liar.

I am all for mending things and giving people the benefit of the doubt, but two things would make me harden my heart here 1. The length of the affair, if it is the whole of your children's lives and they are teenagers, then this is a very very long and deep level of deceipt, I wouldn't get past this let alone 2. Even when called on his lengthy deceipt, he then proceeded to be nasty and didn't commit fully to you at that point for 18 months. Why you sat there and took it for 18 minutes, let alone 18 months, I don't know.

Now he is being nice. For a week. I would separate and let him prove how stable and nice he is over the longer term. I don't think having him in the house will work, as sure as eggs is eggs, he is likely to stuff up by being either nasty, in denial, or having another affair, all of which the children will then witness.

A brief moment of madness I could probably forgive, but not this. I think you need to be 100% more protective of your heart and your children's hearts, as this repeated bad behaviour is going to really damage things for ever soon.

My ex said the same, empty promises and continuous lies and deceit. We went to counselling but he still continued to lie. I also wanted my ex to move jobs and at one point he nearly did. He still continues to lie to the OW but that's not my problem any more...she can deal with it!!

I had been living half a life for so many years. Trying to help with the drinking, drugs and failed suicide attempts. Later discovering about the prostitutes as well as massive debts on credit cards. While all the time I sat at home with my DC missing my ex he was either out drinking or away with work doing god knows what!! I have finally realised that the man I married does not exist any more and I don't like the man he is now.

He still puts himself and the OW before the DC and I try to remain strong and put their wishes first.

Sorry to hijack your post I just wanted to let you know you are not alone and if you do decide to take the same route as me it gets easier with time.

You all say things that have been echoing around my head over and over.

But. He hates what he has become, he ashamed of what he did. I know the facts of his past don't look good for him, but what if his turnaround is genuine?

The key to whether this is genuine or not is that he'd do all this even if he didn't have the 'reward' of a relationship with you as a result. He'd be doing it for him not you.

Whereas now you'll never know.

"what if his turnaround is genuine?"

Then it will still be genuine in a couple of years time when you have had time to move on with your life and see how long-lasting his change of heart really was.

There is no opportunity to be grasped here.

If this is for real, it is not a one-time offer, it is a long-term promise to put things right.

He's had 5 (? ish) years to fuck them up. You should have at least that amount of time to put it behind you and rebuild your life.

If he really "hates what he has become", he will need to spend some time alone working on himself.

Why do you think you need to make any binding decisions now, on his timetable, to suit him?

Carry on with your plans, and let him effect this change he believes has happened, and see what comes out of it.

It is actually very unfair and cruel of him to be asking anything else at this point. And a big red flag that his change is not genuine.

A genuinely repentant man would keep everything steady by moving out and proving himself quietly from afar, not by making demands of the wife and family he had done so much to damage.

I think he hates the consequences of his actions more than what he has become. He realised that control was slipping away from him and is just 'ticking boxes' of the things you want from him to get it back. I don't believe he will ever be the man you want him to be again op, his past and your pain will always be there, it cannot be rewritten.

You all make perfect sense. What a horrible mess.