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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Daughter Stuck Abroad with Children

13 replies

FranticNanNeedsHelp · 08/04/2012 19:25

I hope someone can help. My daughter moved to France with her partner about 4 years ago. At the time she was pregnant with her first child. Her hormones were raging. She was living with us at the time (FOC), and quite frankly we could not take anymore of her rages, so we were quite relieved when they went. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and looking back we could not understand why he (being French) would not find them somewhere proper to live. He just went to work and left us to it. Any house that became available was never good enough for him. So we now realise that she was not in her right mind when they moved to France. Pregnancy does not treat my daughter very kindly. Firstly they moved into his parents home and even then it took him ages to find somewhere of their own. My daughter was in her late 20's at that time. They moved into an appartment and ended up having 2 children. the apartment is far too small, damp and she has problems with some of the neighbours, he works unsociable hours, comes home and plays games on computer or goes clubbing, therefore cannot get up in the morning, infact, very often not getting up until just before he has to go to work again. He is arrogant and all his promises come to nothing. I know I am rambling a bit, but she has told him she has had enough. She wants to come home. The children have French passports even thought we done our best to try to get them duel. The oldest child goes to school. He says she can go but must leave the children. She is in her 30's now and has been with the children 24/7 as she has minimal social life due to trouble learning the language and not having any money of her own. We have no money or ways of raising any, but we dearly want to help and I just don't know what to do. He says everything is his as he is the one who has worked. Can anyone tell me how we can help her. I am heart broken as I feel so helpless and cannot bare the thought of her being trapped. thank You for reading x

OP posts:
Borisismyhousespider · 08/04/2012 19:30

I should think you may need to start with the British Embassy ukinfrance.fco.gov.uk/en/ as they would be able to assist with passports for dual nationality purposes and hopefully advise where she stands with regards to separation from the father, so that French social services don't become involved etc. HTH's good luck.

mummyinspain · 08/04/2012 19:30

Are they married?

She needs to get to a french solicitor and find out what her rights are.

squeakytoy · 08/04/2012 19:32

you could find her an english speaking solicitor.. france is not that far away, and flights are not very expensive, so would it be possible for you to go and visit her?

DinahMoHum · 08/04/2012 20:12

its not a backward country. They would be no more likely to give the father custody than they would here. She could leave him, but i imagine they would probably have similar guidelines about her taking the children too far, so there is a possibility she may need to stay in france, but it would be worth contacting the british embassy

janajos · 08/04/2012 20:22

Be careful. They have a principle of 'la garde alternee' in France which effectively means that if he contests, the courts will award 50% of the custody to him, regardless of how difficult that is to work out. You need proper legal advice urgently. My SIL is French and a lawyer and has had a nightmare with this system even with good contacts. To summarise, good legal advice is essential.

OurPlanetNeptune · 08/04/2012 21:10

I agree with the Janajos it is very complex. Advice offered would depend on whether she is married, whether she is in a 'en union libre', whether they have Certificate of co-habitation (Le certificat de vie commune) or whether she entered into a PACS (pacte civile de solidarité)...

In the event of a separation she would be classed as a single mother (a 'mère célibataire') and would probably would be entitled to state benefits.

She must seek the advice of a english speaking french lawyer. If she does not know one she should speak to someone at the British Embassy, they will help her find one.

Websites that may help:
British Embassy in France

Who is entitled to state benefits - Sorry this is in French. It details who is entitled to state benefits

Bonsoir · 08/04/2012 21:18

If your daughter is not married, the best she can realistically hope for is a court judgement that gives her custody of her DCs (her DCs' father will have visitation rights) and perhaps some child maintenance from her children's father. She needs to argue (or get her lawyer to argue) that her P has not fulfilled his initial promises to her and is unreliable. Although garde alternée (shared care) is increasingly common in France, it is quite easy to avoid when one parent is unreliable.

If your daughter wants to return to the UK, she will need her children's father to agree to this.

GoOnPitch · 08/04/2012 21:29

Are they married or have they signed any 'contract' (It is the PACS in France)?

If they don't, then yes, anything that is in his name is his.

In France, if she was going to Court re the dcs, the base line is a 50-50 residence ie physically spending 50% of the time with each parent.

She will not be able to go back to the UK wo the agreement of her partner as France is their country of residence (ie they have been living there all their lifes!).

She should not have any issue re a british passport if the births have been registered to the ambassy. The best would be to contact them.

And contact a good lawyer too.

FranticNanNeedsHelp · 08/04/2012 21:34

Thank you all so much for replying on Easter Sunday! Never expected so much advice. I will contact the Embassy on Tuesday as her hands are tied.He will know who she rings or contacts. Everything you have all said confirmed my fears that she would have to, at least, remain in France as he would never let her return to the UK with the children unless he came too. Lawyers are expensive so I will have to try to mediate between the two of them as she has no money, he has made sure of that, and we would be unable to raise the cash. Thanks again everyone x

OP posts:
FranticNanNeedsHelp · 08/04/2012 21:36

By the way, they are not married and have not entered into a PACS or any co-hab agreement. Wish she had just listened x

OP posts:
GoOnPitch · 08/04/2012 21:48

You do need to start with sorting o9ut what the french law says.
Because they are in France, dcs were born in France ... it will be the french that applies.

But she will also benefit from help from the french system. You do need to investigate that.

Wondering how much her partner will go against her moving back as he doesn't seem to be keen on looking after the dcs. I know some men in France who have agreed to whatever their partners asked so that they did NOT have to go for 50/50 shared residency....

suburbophobe · 08/04/2012 22:28

You could have a look at the French Expatica site. There's a forum on it with a Legal thread.

www.expatica.com/fr/main.html

Bonsoir · 09/04/2012 13:36

The fact that your DD has not entered a PACS might well be in her favour. She needs to argue that her partner has been unreliable and duplicitous, not committed to her either on paper or in reality, and has left her and her DCs vulnerable, and now she wants out in order to create some security and stability for herself and her DCs. IME of similar cases she has every change of getting custody of her DCs, providing she can house them (French family courts have very low standards of housing, she only needs a couple of rooms).

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