Help with sensitive issue (long)

[batcountrylife]

Hi, I've namechanged for this. Sorry about the textwall, but I don't want to drip-feed.

I need some advice and information over an issue that has come up.

About a week ago, one of my close friends from a larping (Live Action Role Play) community who I have known well for over three years abruptly disappeared. A few days later one of her real-life friends who I'm acquainted with posted on our larping forum that my friend will 'not be joining us again indefinitely'. This naturally had the rest of us all very worried and we all posted a lot of supportive messages, not truly knowing what was going on.

Immediately after, another of our larpers, who I'm less acquainted with, and who is a flatmate of my friend, also informed us that she will be away for an unknown amount of time.

This is when I started to panic a bit as I had no other way of contacting my friend. Up until today I have been really worried about what had happened. From what our mutual friend was willing to tell me, I got the impression that something horrible had happened, like she had been rushed to hospital with a brain tumour or something similarly awful.

It wasn't until today that I managed to get a quiet word with my acquaintance and ask her directly what was going on. She asked me if I really wanted to know. I explained that I was sick with worry and, having known my friend for such a long time, considering her one of my closest friends at larp, that I wanted an explanation, even though I admitted with it being a real-life issue, it was really none of my business.

My acquaintance was quite candid and I completely trust what she has told me, hence why I need to get my head around this.

Now, it turns out that my friend, who is 17 (nearly 18) and in the final year of her A-levels, is being investigated by the police for downloading indecent images of children.

Now, as shocking and confusing as this is to me, my first feeling was one of relief. I was just happy to know that she was okay and not in a coma or something as horrific. This also explained why the larp group wasn't given any explanation and why our mutual friends were keeping silent. It also explains why she couldn't post any messages herself (the police have her and her flatmate's PCs for investigation).

Then I started to ask about what had actually happened. I'm told that for her own reasons downloaded 'indecent images', and then went to the police herself, of her own accord and told them what she had done.

I just want to make it clear that she is NOT part of any circle of abusers, doesn't make the images herself or share them with others.

After being told this, I did some research online and it turns out that since the Sexual Offences Act 2003, the age below which images are classified as child pornography is 18 (it used to be 16 but was changed in 2003 to 18, apparently 'just in case'), even though the age of consent is 16.

Now knowing my friend, who is frankly a hormonal bisexual confused teenager (weren't we all), my guess is that she was looking for images of girls of her own age but got in over her head. Please, don't think that I'm trying to make excuses or her, but this is my genuine opinion of her character. I'm a bit older than she (mid-twenties) is so I'm a bit protective of my 'little sister'.

I know it's very unlikely that anyone here has been through something similar, I'm just really having trouble understanding why this has happened, and what is likely to happen next, what kind of sentence would she be likely to get etc? She is currently out on bail, and she has been suspended from her college. She was hoping to start university in September, and I'm really worried about how all this will affect her future. I am hoping for at least a suspended sentence, because at least then she can get on with her life, but if the worst should happen it will likely ruin her life.

I know some people will undoubtedly accuse me of trolling, but I've thought about that and all I can do is give you my genuine assurance that I am truly concerned about a friend and this is real.

....and you are wanting what exactly from starting this thread? it isnt clear.

the problem for me, is knowing that in order to get the images, a child somewhere has been abused in order to facilitate it. it is illegal and your friend clearly knew that, why else go to the police with the images? what is likely to happen next is your friend will be investigated, until such a point that they can be charged, 9or not.) i have trouble in being sympathetic in these cases im afraid and have more concern for the child who was abused in order for your friend to get their rocks off.
i recently did a course on the psychology of child sex offences - your friend hasnt just happened upon these images. They have thought long and hard about it, and have gone through a whole process of justifying it to themselves prior to downloading them. im not sure what sort of support you are looking for really....your friend is likely to end up on a sex offenders register and yes of course that is going to limit their career choices etc. justifiably so.

I'm looking for advice and an informed opinion on what might happen and how this will affect her life. I don't know anything about the nature of the images. Would she be treated more leniently because she was the one to approach the police?

no. approaching the police will not hold any sway as far as the investigation goes. a child has been abused in order to get those images - a specialist team will do the investigating (im a police officer btw)

it is very very difficult to comment on the particulars of a case without being privvy to the information and given that the info is now third hand (your friend has not approached you directly - this is all hearsay) so i would stop with the speculation. no one can tell you what the outcome will be. best just to wait and see and i doubt very much your friend is going to advertise the outcome.

To be honest I've no sympathy for her as a victim of childhood abuse myself I hope she gets what she deserves don't justify it by saying she never hurt amyone she went and did it knowing what she was looking for.

Do you think that what your friend was doing was looking for images of 'young' people ie people of her own age and was too naive to frame her search terms properly?
There isn't anything you can actually do at the moment, except perhaps try to stop people going on about it online or within the social group, on the grounds that no one actually knows what happened. FWIW offences of this nature are assessed on how 'bad' the matierial downloaded is and how much has been downloaded when it comes to sentencing etc, so if your friend had only got a few 'mild' images she might not go to jail.

That's what I thought the op was saying anyway, SGB, but if that's the case (which seems far more likely than anything else) why on earth would she go to the police? Are you sure this part is correct op?

Always a little bit suspicious of people who want to know what might happen to a 'friend'.

Not sure this is about 'relationships'; it sounds like you are asking for legal advice, so with this in mind there might be a better place to put the thread?

With sexual abuse/child pornography there is a spectrum. Legally there might be no distinction, but the age/circumstances of victim/abuser make a difference. A 40 year old with a 15 year old is more obviously dodgy than a 17 yo with a 15yo. If the victim is pre-pubertal it's massively serious whatever the age of the exploiter.

All a bit unclear, including what you want to know here. Taking everything at face value, if this virtual friend felt the need to turn herself in to police, it doesn't look good. And why does it matter so much to you anyway? It's not your problem.

Think. She is in a LARP, yes... so presumably technologically proficient enough? It won't have been her first time on the net? I was told at Child Protection training it is not easy to access these images accidentally or without, as Vicar has said, a lot of thought and intention.

Pornographic images of children are photos of crime scenes, pure and simple. Your friend is in a circle of abusers because she is demanding what the abusers must supply. It's pretty disgusting, don't close your eyes to that please.

just to be clear, i have reported this thread. not clear that the "friend" is the one looking for advice and am not comfortable with someone seeking "advice" on what is child pornography.

Good move Vicar. This is a funny thread and makes me feel a bit sick.

Funny-weird, obviously, not funny ha-ha

Good vicar people like that make me sick for obvious reasons.

As someone whose niece was sexually abused, I would hold your 'friend' just as culpable as her abuser. As far as I know, no images of her were taken, so not released.

BUT if there was no demand for the supply of images, there would be no reason to supply images.

In my eyes, your 'friend' is just as bad as the abusers.

Like stolen goods, if no one wanted them, there would be no reason to steal them.

vicar I have also reported this thread; find it sickening!

Why do some people find it so hard to believe that I am worried about a friend? I am asking this rhetorically because this was not the purpose of this thread, and as such I will not pursue it.

SGB, I think what you said is almost definitely the case, but this is just my opinion based on knowing her. I'm not even actually sure if she reported the images to the police, and thereby became part of the investigation herself. The appropriate Act seems kind of woolly in that respect.

Lovelydogs: I am 100% certain that she approached the police of her own volition.

I think people shouldn't jump from 'indecent images' to 'child abuse' because there just isn't enough information to justify that, re: sexual offenses act. Even I don't know that, and I'm certain it isn't the case. We don't know what the nature of the images were, how long she had them, what she did with them. Just that she reported them and 'confessed' to having seen them, as you would if you were reporting them in the first place.

I just want to know what is a realistic worst case scenario, so I can prepare myself for that, and what a realistic best case scenario is so I can hope for that instead.

Vicar, again to clarify, I am not asking for a legal clarification on that. And ill ask you to be careful with what you are implying, because if its what I think it is, its personally offensive and libelous.

OP I agree with Vicar and have also reported your post. Hope that it will be removed very soon.

Meant thread

Just reported.

It would seem probable that your young friend has been arrested on suspicion of committing an offence and has been released on bail pending examination of her/her friend's computer equipment and, depending on the findings, a decision will be made as to whether a charge or charges will be brought against her.

As sgb has said any charge(s) will be determined on the basis of the category and number of images downloaded.

Until such time as a charge is brought it is not possible to give a worse case scenario but, purely on the basis of what you've said, I'd hazard a guess that if found guilty she would not be given a custodial sentence.

The best case scenario is a not guilty verdict and I trust that your friend has the best possible legal representation in the form of an experienced criminal lawyer. If your friend has, effectively, shopped herself to the police this will, as Vic has said, have no bearing on any investigation but it will certainly be taken into account at any Court hearing.

Contrary to previous responses, it is frighteningly easy to access indecent images of children on the internet but it takes a credit card to access the images of child abuse which constitute the most serious level of pornographic imagery.

At 17yrs old your friend should not be in possession of a credit card. As for her acting after due consideration, few teenagers are blessed with forethought and it could be that she acted on impulse at a moment in time when she was confused about what she was looking for or curious about what is 'out there'.

If this is the case, she may be confused as to what computer imagery constitutes a criminal offence and it could be that no charges are brought.

As should be apparent, I've taken your post entirely at face value bat and can see no reason for the turn the reponses have taken.

I would imagine that if you had posted that your hormonal, 17yr old dd had accidentally viewed or downloaded indecent images of children when endeavouring to ease her troubled mind about her sexuality you may have received a more sympathetic hearing.

In any event, it is to be hoped that those who find this subject 'sickening' will choose to hide this post because imposing censorship on threads such as this is NOT the way to eradicate this particular evil from the world.

Think that we need a bit of commonsense fromAF here. Have spent ages googling Lars; can't form an opinion!

So have you met/spoken to the girl in question, or do you only 'know' her online? Because if you do then I am a bit cynical about all these concerened and worried 'friends' passing back and forth this info over the internet, and how can you even be sure she is a 17 year old girl?

Try not to be offended by the others' immediate suspicion. Whilst you sound plausible, look at it from our point of view - it is entirely possible that you are not all you seem, and that you are trying to construct a series of useful alibis should you need them for yourself one day.

It doesn't pay to be too trusting where these things are concerned.

But assuming you are entirely genuine in your story, I think Izzy has made some very sound points.

I can't help finding it a bit odd that you are going to such lengths for information about this, when it is just a person you play online games with though.

Maybe you had a hard day at work yesterday, Vic? You certainly chose the right profession for a daily (or nightly) grind

it is illegal and your friend clearly knew that It's not like you to fall into the trap of unsubstantiated supposition and I'm not so sure that a 17 year old - or even a 77 year old - who has had no experience of internet pornography would be able to determine what is and what isn't legal imagery.

Remember that rape porn thread earlier this year? I seem to recall that you and I and a couple of others went to considerable lengths to establish that, while they may have been abhorrent and offensive to many, the images that the OP's dp had downloaded were not illegal nor had he committed any criminal offence while getting his rocks off. (I wonder what happened to that OP - she should have another dc by now).

Instead of allowing the easily offended or outraged to divert our attention, what EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US should be focusing on is WHY anyone, regardless of age or gender, should so easily be able to access images of such depravity that once seen, even fleetingly in passing or from the corner of an eye, cannot be erased from a rightminded memory bank and which can do irreparable harm to a young or impressionable mind.

hear hear Izzy.