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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

So he didn't 'cheat' but he may as well have done. He wants me to stay but I don't think this can be fixed. (Another long one).

42 replies

BeenLiedToB4 · 05/04/2012 00:11

I posted recently about my suspicions re H and an OW and got some helpful replies. Well I decided to confront him and have confirmed now that he has not had an affair, but he has sent a series of inappropriate, explicit texts to this woman telling her that if he didn?t love his wife so much he would do [xxx] to her and wouldn't she be up for it too. She did not reciprocate, although she graciously accepted his apology and agreed to forget all about it. He says he instantly regretted it. This seems to have happened a few months ago. Since then he has tried quite hard to meet her for coffee. She's been very friendly to him (in a chirpy, non-flirty way) but seems to have avoided an actual meeting.

I only unearthed this because I checked his phone, and also because frankly he is quite bad at concocting stories and I am pretty sharp at seeing through them. I knew he was still lying and got most of the details about the texts by posing as him and asking the woman he targeted. It appears that he actually believes his own lies as it was his suggestion that I text her and ask her using his phone, to 'prove' that he was telling the truth - of course her replies proved instantly he had lied and was still lying (first he pretended there had been no such texts, then that there had only been one).

In the first year of our marriage (5 years ago) I discovered that his porn use, which I knew about because at first he didn't hide it from me, had escalated into sex chat rooms, looking on dating sites, and text/phone sex services. He denied the blatant evidence until I threatened to leave. I still nearly kicked him out and he was terrified of losing me.

After that we had some counselling (not a great counsellor though), and he did a lot of things to show his commitment to stopping. I asked him to be honest with me about any relapses and I think (thought?) he had been - there have been a few minor relapses, as well as months and months without using. He has talked to me about the fact that he feels unable to control these compulsive behaviours and wishes that he could stop.

In spite of this we have been happy together throughout our relationship, have always had a good and active sex life, read each others' thoughts, make each other laugh, spend lots of time together and now have a DC, 18mo, to whom he is a lovely dad. I've always thought he was my best friend, and I love him very much. That's why I was prepared to give him another chance 5 years ago despite the betrayal and the lying that went with it.

He knew very well that this second chance was conditional upon complete honesty going forward. Yet he lied about these text messages when I confronted him, and he only gave a partial disclosure when I said only the whole truth would save our relationship. Presumably he has become sexually fixated on this woman, a former colleague, and targeted his compulsive behaviour at her. Luckily for all involved she was sensible enough not to take up his advances. It seems to me that it is her integrity, not his respect for me, which has prevented a potential 'real life' infidelity.

He says it was one stupid drunken mistake, that it was only a text, that he never had any intention of acting further on it and regretted it immediately, that he loves me more than anything in the world, can't live without me blah blah etc. and has sobbed, begged and pleaded for me not to go. I don't see it as a single mistake. I am distraught about losing him. But I see it as absolutely shattering the very fragile trust he had managed to win back from me since the last 'round'. He says he will do whatever it takes. But what will it take? The good stuff is still good, but it feels like the never-knowing-whether-he's-telling-the-truth will cast a long, cold shadow over it all. Not to mention that it hurts like fuck that he said such intimate things to another woman. He's not a con artist, he's too easy to see through. But how can he love me and yet have such complete disregard for my feelings? I'm starting to doubt everything about him. he seems to think this is a game and is bitter that I 'won' this time by being wiley enough to dig up the truth. I feel there's no going back, no moving forward except by separating.

Would you leave for this? Or is it salvageable on the basis of the love that's still there?

Don't know why I'm asking really, I think I know the answer. Just clutching at straws and wanting to believe it?s not as hideous as it really is. :(

OP posts:
maleview70 · 07/04/2012 23:35

Well you have a choice then. Either tolerate his behaviour and take the risk it will happen again or do something about it.

He is clearly very good at manipulating you and trying to Deflect blame.

PeppaIsBack · 08/04/2012 09:52

I think you are spot on re getting separated.

When he says that he will only seek specialist help if you stay, this only means that he still hasn't fully grasp the severity of what has happened. If he doesn't want to do it for himself, there is no point doing it. Itwill require so much effort from him that it is unlikely he is going to do it for anyboy else or anything else than for himself.

:(

Ktmacca4 · 08/04/2012 10:18

Morning all - Beenliedtob4, I'm so sorry to hear what you're gong through. Just wanted to say I think your insistence that he gets help while you are separated if he wants to be in with a chance of winning you back is THE PERFECT COMPROMISE. IMO you are protecting your own sanity while still not giving up on him. If he chooses not to do this then you are right to walk away - you can't do anymore. Xx

Ktmacca4 · 08/04/2012 10:18

Morning all - Beenliedtob4, I'm so sorry to hear what you're gong through. Just wanted to say I think your insistence that he gets help while you are separated if he wants to be in with a chance of winning you back is THE PERFECT COMPROMISE. IMO you are protecting your own sanity while still not giving up on him. If he chooses not to do this then you are right to walk away - you can't do anymore. Xx

Ktmacca4 · 08/04/2012 10:19

Sorry - quite new to this - didn't mean to post twice!

BeenLiedToB4 · 08/04/2012 15:15

Thanks Peppa and Ktmacca for the feedback. In a way I don't know if it even is a compromise as such, or just a way for me to let go gradually, because it's going to be a slow process, accepting that my marriage to the love of my life is over. If he does get help it won't be for nothing, regardless of whether we ever get back together - it could prevent DS from accidentally being exposed to hardcore porn when visiting him.

OP posts:
PeppaIsBack · 08/04/2012 15:31

:(

Wishing you lots of strength for the following weeks.

melonsmaygotobed · 10/04/2012 03:15

Hi beenliedto. Your situation reminds me so much of mine at the moment. I posted a thread 'hell in paradise' about my DH 's infidelities and I am at a real crossroads about what to do next. He has said he will do anything, ANYTHING to make things better. He has found and read the thread which he said made him take a good look at himself. He is in a hotel till Wednesday to give me some space to think. We have a lot to lose if we split, but I am finding it hard to believe I'll ever have an ounce of trust in him again.

How are you now after the Easter weekend?

Melons
X

thatisall · 10/04/2012 03:32

I stayed with my dd father for years despite a similar situation. He was unfaithful, sometimes physically, often emotionally and often he would attempt infidelity only to be knocked back by a woman with scruples.

Since our separation I have, for a variety of reasons, met women who have dealt with similar situations.

We all have one thing i common..... we wish we'd left sooner

I often think about the years I spent loving and forgiving a man who for whatever reason (compulsion perhaps) did not treat me with the respect that I treated him. I even worry about the effect that it might have had on my dd!

At some point in time, you will leave this man and you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

I believe we all deserve a second chance and unlike some I don't believe that 'once a cheat always a cheat'. But you have been an understanding dw and have given him the opportunity and a loving relationship in which to change.

It really isn't you, it's him.

It may seem unthinkable, frightening or overwhelming now, but it may be what's right for you to be without him.

I wish you so much luck with whatever you decide. x

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/04/2012 06:37

It's not an illness btw. In the news last week there was a young woman, the daughter of a millionaire, convicted of offences committed during last summer's riots. A millionaire's daughter doesn't need to steal anything and she didn't try to claim kleptomania as a defence, so she was obviously doing it for the sheer thrill of being outside the law. And it's often the same with infidelity.

Some men are vain, childish, ego-centric and need to think they've 'still got it' because of their own insecurities. So they chase women, not necessarily because their partner is below par, but for entirely selfish reasons. They regard it all as a trivial matter - just a bit of fun - and expect the partner to see it the same way. I'm so glad he failed.... now he has to face life knowing that not only does his wife find him disgusting but so do other women as well. Justice indeed.

Charbon · 10/04/2012 08:29

Agree with Cogito.

It's not an illness at all. It is a personality and character flaw though.

I also think it's often under-estimated how much the sheer thrill from doing something forbidden fuels these things - not unhappiness with a partner, or dissatisfactions with a relationship.

It's also not logical that someone who's cheated is genuinely sorry within days or weeks of being found out. At that point they are just sorry that they were caught and it's as self-centred as that. So all these heartfelt pleas and promises to change in the immediate aftermath should be viewed with extreme scepticism. Real sorrow for the impact one's actions have had on a partner takes a long time and some people never feel it at all.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/04/2012 08:49

Impact of actions is another black hole... Impulsive, selfish, irresponsible types rarely think about what impact their actions have on others either before, during or afterwards. Like a toddler having a great time stamping on the other kids' sandcastles - as long as they are having a good time, that's the only thing that matters. He's not having a good time at the moment because he's been caught out and punished so he's furiously back-pedalling in an effort to make his life better again. Not your life... be very certain about that... his life. It's never about other people.

BelleDameSansMerci · 10/04/2012 09:05

Cogito is right.

I am currently going through similar stuff with DD's father. He's gone. He's dumped me for someone else and, it turns out, was stringing his ex wife along all the time too. Three women. It's a wonder he had the energy. He's in bits now. All tears and sorrow (although he's managed to pull himself together enough to move in with No3 - odd that) because his behaviour and the consequences are now out in the open. He is crying because he got caught - not because he is sorry.

But, my heart is broken too. I am sad and lonely, etc, etc even though he is a monumental tosser.

Your heart will be breaking; you will feel hurt and lonely and betrayed and you will want to believe him more than anything. Only you can know what you want to do/what you need to do (they're unlikely to be the same thing, IMO) and will have to work it through.

My only advice, really, is to be kind to yourself. Think about you and what you want and how you want your life to be. You, also, don't have to decide right now. The ball is in your court. Take all the time you need.

PluckedViolets · 10/04/2012 09:11

I think that there are many ways porn can be used. It can obviously be used many men who do not care who they hurt.

There are also men (and women) who are addicted to pornography. It is heartbreaking; not just for the OP but all whose lives are blighted. I feel for you OP because your situation is very similar to my own. I am currently now separated from my H. We have two small children together and have been tog her 16 years. I first found out about the porn in 2001.

I do not know if the OP's H is an addict but the signs are there; the chronic lying, the compulsivity and the acting out. IF it is an addiction then it will get worse OP. Has it started to affect you already? I would be very surprised if it hasn't. I see SA like any other addiction be that drugs or alcohol.

OP, this will be an extraordinarily difficult time for you but I urge you to think very carefully about not confronting this toxic situation. Remember; it will worsen if left untreated. In all probability, you have been greatly affected by the chronic lying and the acting out. You may need to seek help yourself.

IF he accepts he has a serious problem (as all addictions are) then it IS possible for him to get targeted help; by that I mean with a properly accredited sexual addiction counsellor. Thankfully, they are not the rarity they once where.

Again, I feel sorrow for you OP but treat this now as an opportunity to finally bring this situation under your control. You cannot of course control your H's reactions but you can control YOUR reactions. The separation sounds like and excellent way of taking back control. My H is now attending SA counselling sessions.

There are many wise words on MN and much support. Please be aware that there are some people who seem to seek a prurient thrill in screaming 'leave the bastard' at the first opportunity. This totally negates the psychological affect the addiction has had on the significant other.

Be gentle with yourself OP. IF you need to; please pm me at any time :)

Abitwobblynow · 10/04/2012 09:13

The thing to remember is that it is about they way they think.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with you. You didn't cause it and you can't change it.

What I mean is, if someone feels entitled, rationalises what they are doing and minimises the impact on others, NO amount of crying and yelling changes it.

They literally have to have a 'come to Jesus' moment where they are prepared to look at themselves: and that is a character issue, separate from us.

PluckedViolets · 10/04/2012 09:14

Please disregard the seemingly conditional 'IF' in my last sentence Blush. That was a typo! :) please pm me any time you want. :)

PluckedViolets · 10/04/2012 09:15

They literally have to have a 'come to Jesus' moment where they are prepared to look at themselves: and that is a character issue, separate from us.

YY to wobbly This is bang on. OP; your H may well not be there. Please don't base your actions on the chance that a some point in the future he may come to his senses.

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