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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

If you've had relationship counselling, could you tell me how it worked?

47 replies

lostboysfallin · 29/03/2012 16:16

Or didn't work, if that was the case!
Just feel like we are going round in circles and wasting money.
The counsellor is a good listener and kinda gets the problem, but we don't seem to be moving forward

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RightFedUp · 30/03/2012 19:17

We went for couples therapy after my DH had an affair. We went together for about 3 months. We decided that my DH needed to continue therapy alone as he had issues that went way back and would be better dealt with on a 1:1 basis.
I would suggest you ask your therapist whether it would be beneficial for your husband to attend alone. You can't change your minds and go back to couples therapy after though - it's against their rules.

I have to say, though, that I agree with other posters - you may need therapy on your own account to deal with things.

Best of luck.

lostboysfallin · 30/03/2012 20:39

What are the rules?
Dh couldn't confirm appt the other day and I asked if I could see her alone, she didn't think it was a good idea.

He's still not in, not even left work yet

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NimpyWindowmash · 30/03/2012 20:51

We tried it. It didn't blow me away, but on the plus side DH and I are still together. In a way, we became united in thinking the counsellor wasn't that great but it did help I guess, in that it got us talking, and we got through the crisis.

Some counsellors will not see one half of a couple individually, but others will. It depends probably on their training and their theoretical leanings.

I agree with the zoobmeister in general. It is about both people and the way they relate to each other. If you are dissatisfied with what is going on in counselling and the lack of action plan, then it is important to raise that with the counsellor. No point sitting there feeling frustrated and that its going nowhere, tell him/her what you are feeling and get it out in the open

Eurostar · 30/03/2012 21:17

relationship counselling is generally not recommended when one party is abusive and your H taking out all his frustrations on you, shouting, swearing etc. is abusive. It doesn't sounds like he is ready for change, knows how to change or really feels any need to.

thezoobmeister · 30/03/2012 21:56

Having said I wasn't going to post any more Smile Just thought of something that might be helpful - well, at least I found it helpful when I was going through this whole miserable process.

'Your responsibility' does not mean 'it's your fault' or 'you are to blame'.

'Your responsibility' means that the hard decisions are yours alone, no-one else is going to fix things for you. Obviously same applies to your DH.

I agree with the person who said that it sounded like you have made really good progress in just 6 sessions. FWIW I reckon things are just getting started by then!

lostboysfallin · 04/04/2012 10:23

Eurostar- I had read that about not being recommended for abuse, but I was under that impression that the main reason for that would be that the abuser would manipulate the counsellor, and use everything to his advantage
Which is why I made him promise to be open and honest. Which he has been.

Had appt yesterday which was good, I thought.
I was able to illustrate how things he says, I take as criticism, but he says he doesn't mean them like that.
But he came out feeling really bad, because he can't do anything right.
He was very upset that I was down and sad and exhausted about the whole thing.
But upset and annoyed with himself, thinking that maybe we would be better without him
Talked about his behaviour with DS too, as he is very intolerant with him and we are going out for lunch with some friends and this has sent him into a right tizz. that's a whole other topic.

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amverytired · 04/04/2012 10:49

LBF - I've not had a good experience with joint counselling as Dh was essentially being abusive - loosing his temper, raging at me and dc etc etc all down to stress (according to him). Actually following individual therapy he realised that he was depressed and deflecting all this back on me and dc.
Now looking back I see where I was going wrong. I was taking responsibility for dh's behaviour. If he was stressed, I did everything I could to try to alleviate it. Of course, because 'stress' wasn't the real problem, nothing I did actually worked. Because of the dynamic we had dh kept heaping blame/criticism on me and I continually accepted it.
He also used phrases such as 'you will never be satisfied with what I do/I am', 'you never see the good things I do', 'I can never do anything right according to you'- all very passive aggressive and passing the blame back to me.
He had real unresolved problems with his family of origin. He learnt how to behave from them (very dysfunctional and effectively abusive). Through therapy he faced up to all of this and started taking responsibility for his own behaviour.
I also had to look at my own behaviour and understand why I was putting up with this, and even why I was enabling him to continue the way he was.
My own confidence and self-esteem grew (though to outsiders I was always seen as a very strong person).
I started voicing how I felt.
Dh realised that his behaviour was not ok, that it was his responsibility and his only to change it.
If he wasn't going to make changes we were leaving - he was in no doubt about this.
I think you need to spell out to your dh that it's up to him to solve his problems. You have your son to think about - you are his only advocate.
Think about yourself, how you expect to be treated, think about your son, how do you want him to be treated.

lostboysfallin · 04/04/2012 13:32

amverytired, thank you, that all sounds very familiar
I do think DH is depressed, but he's not really facing up to that.
the work/time problems are very real, and he can't cope, but underlying all that is a depression I think
the problem is that the behaviour is having a negative effect on my self esteem and confidence and dragging me down.
I need to find a way out of that

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BertieBotts · 04/04/2012 13:39

It isn't only because the abuser can manipulate the counsellor, there are other factors, one is that the abuser can take on board what you are saying and what the counsellor is saying and turn it back on you in an argument later, and (the important one here, I feel) that couple's counselling is really designed for situations where there is fault on both sides or compromise needed or some kind of communication difficulty which is frustrating both of you. Whereas what you describe is very one sided.

amverytired · 04/04/2012 14:05

LBF - my dh had very real problems wrt work also - he was stressed up to the hilt. The thing is, he was also depressed. This meant that it felt impossible for him to tackle the work related stresses. It was also a (too) convenient excuse for his behaviour every time he behaved badly (it was his 'get out of jail free' card). On top of that I was also depressed and we had 3 small dc (and we were getting married, and we were selling our house/moving -all at the same time). So yes, there were many reasons for him to be stressed (I was also stressed) - but that didn't mean he had a license to behave badly and get away with it.
The point is that I did let him get away with it. Everything was seen from his perspective. My feelings were irrelevant to him.
When I started to focus on how I felt (which was difficult as I had been trying to see how dh was feeling for so long), then I was able to say stop.
Once dh started to have his own therapy, he could see that certain things needed to change, such as getting a different job. Before that he felt helpless and seemed to be unable to do anything for himself wrt work stress (except accept it and take it out on everyone at home).

lostboysfallin · 04/04/2012 20:44

thanks Bertie- I wanted joint counselling, because I wanted to make sure we were discussing the right things, not how he sees it, because I don't think he really understands.
I think he is getting there now
amverytired, your situation sounds so similar. Every little things gets blamed on his stress now, it really is like a "get out of jail free" card
And it is like everything revolves around him.
how are things now with your dh? did he get another job?

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lostboysfallin · 10/04/2012 12:59

had dreadful weekend, and last night divorce was definitely on the cards
We have a counselling session this afternoon, I am dreading it.
At the very least, the counsellor can be the referee.

the manipulation is kicking in, twisting everything I say. All back round to him.
I don't know whether I can get my point across this afternoon

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thezoobmeister · 11/04/2012 10:29

Aww, sorry to hear that lost Sad Good luck this afternoon, and do take care of yourself. These ups and downs are absolute hell and you need all your strength to get through them ...

fiventhree · 11/04/2012 11:30

Lostboys, I do think there is something you can get out of joint counselling, as a couple of others have said.

The thing is, he can only get away with talking about his work all the time, and also taking his stress out on you, because you let him. This is an issue with you- not him, IFSWIM.

There needs to be a changed dynamic in the relationship where you are not the conductor for his stress, and where both of you see that continuing to talk about things which he tells himself he cannot change, stops.

Another thing- if you change, he will. These phrases are helpful-

"We cant change others, we can only change ourselves", and
"Only he is responsible for his life and attitudes, and you for yours".
"If one person changes in a relationship, the other must too".

Actually my own h and I, up to the end of 2005, talked endlessly about his work. (Also because I do some workplace mentoring on occasion as work). This had gone on for some years. Now, in the end we fell out about it, because I got to the point of saying that I didnt want to talk about it so much any more, and I meant it. And certainly not three hours a night.

My reasons were that:

a) it made no difference to his actions there, and in fact because I disagreed with some of his strategies, it also annoyed him
b) I am not his mum or mentor, I am his wife and
c) I was fucked off with talking about him all the time- he certainly hardly ever returned the favour.

But at the same time, he didnt deal with his issues. In fact, a few months later, he started to sex chat lots of OW on the net, which took years for me to get to the bottom of/find out about, and ended up with us at Relate, as mentioned above. Personally, that is where I think he took his stress instead, in part, because he would not face the underlying issues in him.

The issues were a dysfunctional childhood he had not processed in his head, and a need to control others and situations (at home and at work), amongst others. These manifested themselves in workaholism, effectively, with consequential stress, marriage issues etc, and latterly infidelity.

Interestingly, he now says he didnt get much out of all those work conversations anyway- a wife who said 'there there, never mind', or words to that effect, were what he was really after, and I can see why, now.

It is quite possible for you to set a time or life space issue on his work related stress and discussion. Offer sympathy, no other comments, and leave him to sort. eg 'Im sure you'll think of something, you are really resourceful as a rule', type of thing.

If he is angry, walk out of the room, and refuse to hear it. You can find a form of words about this, Im sure.

Then at the counselling sessions you can work at the relationship issues and have a chance to air the things which come up. He can start to focus on how he is going to address his own issues and make a start. You can look at your need to allow his unreasonable behaviour, and other stuff, no doubt.

There are always, always solutions if he looks for them, or partial ones, etc.

fiventhree · 11/04/2012 11:32

If he is manipulating you, he is just resisting change and trying to get back to a place where he is comfortable. Dont let him.

Of course you can resist. If he can resist some activities, why cant you?!

Deedee66 · 11/04/2012 12:03

Lostboys I've been following this thread for a while. I won't go into my own history (have posted about it lots recently) but DH and I have just started counselling and I've I spotted some similarities between your situation and my own. I'm not sure what advice I can give but I just wanted you to know that you're not alone...

Fiventhree I think you are spot on (for me at least) when you talk about "letting" your DH behave as he did. I have definately been letting my DH talk about himself and his work for many years and I've been letting him take his stress out on me (and our DS). I thought that I was supporting him but actually it wasn't helping AT ALL! The more I tried to "be supportive" the angrier and more frustrated he got.

Anyway we hit rock bottom and I've now stopped giving any support whatsoever. He's really not happy about that (in fact he told me yesterday that it's "not fair"...well boohoo to you!) but I'm trying to stick to it because it's making me feel a WHOLE LOT better!

We have started counselling and it's obvious from the first proper session that he has a LOT of personal issues regarding family and competition and self esteem that only he can resolve.

It's also clear that I have a need to "to help people"...but I think sometimes helping means NOT helping IYSWIM

fiventhree · 11/04/2012 12:34

'need to help people'.

Yes, Deedee, me too!

And look where it landed me!

A heap of support for him, and no support, or help with house and kids for me. (too busy with work, cant get home early enough, need to relax when home etc).

And when I somewhat withdrew it, finally, he has internet sex with other women (loads) for five years, and lied about it till the end, and that is the result of his stress and lack of support from me. Only now am I confronting the issue in me- eg why did I believe him each time I found evidence and he denied it- and why did I let that happen to me? And look how things changed when I was realdy to leave. Now he is, to be fair, really thinking about his issues.

Truly, they only change if they want to, and if you give them no alternative.

Deedee66 · 11/04/2012 13:57

Fiventhree - yes exactly the same for me. A complete one-way support system that has carried on for years.

It's only when my DH realised I was absolutely serious about ending our relationship (he knows I went to see solicitor and had all the finances planned for our separation) that he's actually started to accept that there's a problem and has begun to change his ways.

Maybe this is what you need to do Lostboys? Make it so fucking clear to him that you're serious about this that he can't try and manipulate you any more?

However, I have to say it's still a real struggle with my DH...he's still resisting a lot...and trying to shift the blame....and feeling sorry for himself. Not sure if we'll make it through this....but if it doesn't work out I will have learned something very valuable about my own behaviour and how I'm NOT going to be like that again...

lostboysfallin · 11/04/2012 15:13

Oh dear
Thanks for your replies
Session was yesterday.
I have started to withdraw support, and things have only been bad since I started to make a fuss and stand up for myself.
I don't know what to think or believe anymore
I'm so low I don't know what the hell to do
I'm just lying on couch eating crap.
Going to take DS out for dinner
Dh said he would just stay away, work late, come home late.
But he went out for dinner last night, no idea who with

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Deedee66 · 11/04/2012 15:44

Oh Lostboys :(

Sounds like he really is resisting. He's trying to push all your buttons...to get back at you. I've had this too. It's really hard.

fiventhree · 11/04/2012 16:21

Lost, poor you. Do take DS out.

It sounds as though he may to do the my h number in the old days ie you withdraw support and I still feel bad, so what can I do? er... look around for others. Anything except face himself.

lostboysfallin · 11/04/2012 18:52

have 2 threads!

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