I am the third person in my marriage after Him and his Work

[thirdandbird]

Regular name changer here.

I have been married for nearly 20 years ( god that sounds scary) and I am feeling absolutely ignored and utterly lonely.
My dh has a huge job running a massive company, which is absorbing every ounce of his physical and mental energy.
He works away all week, generally abroad, flying back on Friday nights, home late on Friday, spends all day Saturday on the phone/email, goes to bed at 8pm on Saturdays as he is so tired, lies in till 11 on a Sunday, goes to the gym to relax, awake for a bit in the afternoon ( on email and phone) and goes back to London/abroad at around 5pm on Sundays.
The children are getting to an age when they know that other dads do stuff with their friends, and it upsets me when I see dh too busy to spend time with our children.
He is no emotional support at all, when my father was dying in a hospice, friends of mine drove 100s of miles round trips to get my kids to school and back again, for 4 days whilst I was at the hospice and at my mum's registering the death, etc. I rang dh and told him my father was not going to last the day and would he come home. He refused and I don't think I have ever recovered from being abandoned when I needed his support. He came to the funeral ( arranged for his convenience on a Monday morning) and he didn't stay for the wake and was gone within an hour of my dad being in the ground. Again i felt utterly bereft, I asked him to stay, and he said that he had pushed himself to have the morning off.
I have told DH I am lonely without him, he told me to get a job 2 months ago, I have just got one, and he has not once in that time asked if I have applied, been interviewed or anything. I wonder if he will ever notice or ask anything of me every again ?
It is as if I and the children don't register with him, when he is here, physically, he is not here mentally.
He is always too exhausted from work to do anything, I stopped expecting sex over 3 years ago, and now cringe at his touch as I resent him so much.
I honestly dread him coming back as I know that the children will again be disappointed, yet they ask for him all the time whilst he is away. He does ring daily, and speaks to the kids around 7am each day.

He loves his job, and yet he is sacrifcing so much for it.
DS is terrified that we are going to divorce, as he has seen how it affected 2 of his friends, and he often tells me that he knows I am unhappy, but he doesn't want to us to get divorced and make the kids move house and schools, as happened with his schoolfriends.

My dh is not a bad man, I still see flashes of the man I fell in love with, yet he seems lost to me. I am confident he is not having an affair as he is incapable of hiding it.
I can't ask him to come to counselling, as he is home so infrequently and only really on a Saturday and Sunday, that he needs to see his children, not a shrink.

My kids are my only company and solace so how can I put my personal lonliness before their stability ?

don't know what to say really but didn't want your thread to go unanswered.

he sounds like he cares about his kids - he phones them every day and sees them for a bit on sunday. he could do that if he wasn't living at home though. he might actually see them more if he wasn't living at home.

have you thought about an ultimatum?

It sounds like a desperately lonely life for you with no support whatsoever and it certainly doesn't sound like a relationship at all. You have every right to feel as you do.

As Claude says above, it does sound like your DH loves the kids, BUT he needs to have a serious wake up call to what is happening in his family life and with you, his wife. To me, it sounds totally unacceptable the lack of support, love and understanding you received when your father passed away. I too wouldn't be able to forgive a partner who puts work before something like that. Totally unforgivable and beyond selfish behaviour That must've hurt you so so much. Poor you.

Silly question, but have you explained to him how you feel? How lonely you feel? How resentful you are?

Personally, I think it's extremely important that as a mother you should be happy as you will pass that happiness along to your kids hopefully. You've said yourself that you son has noticed you are unhappy. I recently read on here "staying for the sake of the kids is so out of date now". I agree. Yes, you want a stable family life for you kids of course you do, but this just doesn't sound like that to me. You deserve to be happy, to be loved and supported by the person you are married to. Not deserted for work, not made to feel second best to work. You are a human being, someone your DH is supposed to love. It's about time he realised that your value is a million times higher than some stupid business he runs.

I think it's time for some very serious chats with your DH. I also think it's time you really started to imagine a different kind of future. I really suggest getting some counselling on your own to perhaps help you find some answers (I am currently doing this for my relationship, and trust me, it's a big help to get things off your chest).

This is tricky, as there is little longing there on either side it sounds pretty much as this is a marriage of convenience, it sounds very dead. DH calls the children at 7.00 am but never calls you, never misses you, never bonds with you when he comes home. Even when he is back he slips off to the gym rather than spend time with you all.

I am sure where he lives in the week there are plenty of sports facilities and saunas etc. This smacks of escapism to me. I really feel for you is sounds so cold. Do you think he is just in it for himself and the DC, if so no matter what happens this is your life too, and youre feelings need to be heard. Do you think he cares enough to listen and take your view seriously, because it sure is time to talk.

My husband works away, so I know it's hard in this situation, however, this sounds beyond simple separation due to work, you sound completely emotionally separated from him. Basically, you are living as a single mother, doing all a single mother does with the added stress of feeling rejected and worrying he doesn't see the children enough. You poor thing, this is a really hard situation.

I would have one of those chats with him, you know, the ones you only really have a few times in your marriage, a make or break one. Tell him everything you have told us here. Tell him you feel lonely and desparing and are wondering whether divorce is the best option. Ask him if he wants to work on your marriage and change things and go from there. He may not, his work may be just so much part of his identity, he is prepared to sacrifice everything. Or it may be a wake-up call to him to change.

Try not to worry about what your DS says about having divorced parents. Of course he doesn't want anything to change, but the irony is he won't see his dad much less if he loses residency (i.e. for short whiles on the weekend). Very little will actually change in that sense. I wouldn't involve him in these conversations though, they will stress him out enormously and make him feel like he's responsible. Have those talks with your husband alone, decide whether you can fix things (he may surprise you) and then tell your son once you are clearer about what is going on.

Sounds like you should end the relationship . Doubt someone so heavily involved with work and who let you down so badly when your father died has the will or capacity to change.

The DC would be OK. At the moment they are seeing a poor model for family life. And he is basically rejecting them too.

Sorry to push this, but are you sure there is no OW?

Also, is not good for DC to be your "only company and solace" - for you or for them.

Are there people in RL who you can talk to / spend time with? Or, since presume money isn't an issue, a counsellor for you and more childcare so you can take time for you and to think?

If he felt he was sacrificing things he would've done something about it, he knows you're unhappy and that he doesn't see his children. He actually sounds like he wants the life he has, he's opted out of the marriage and parenting.

It seems perfectly clear that YOU are your DCs' stability, not your H. He is never there.

If you split they might actually get to see something of him. They are unlikely to see significantly less of him. (Not seeing him at all is seeing less of him, but not significantly less, IYSWIM.)

How much splitting up affects your DCs is down to how the parents handle the split. Frankly, if your DH handles it badly, how much of it will the DCs actually see? As long as you handle it well, don't badmouth him to them etc, they will be OK.

My advice would be to see a solicitor. And work out as much as you can about whether you can avoid moving schools and house. (House is less important than school, I'd say.)

You deserve the chance to have a relationship with someone who actually wants to share your life. Why stay in this lonely gilded cage?

Your DH didn't get like this overnight. I'm assuming he has always been like this, or it's been very gradual, and it's actually been fine for you for many years. When did you last talk to him about how things are at his work? Is the company in good shape? How many people depend on his company for their livelihoods?

How old are DC? It is very, very common to feel discontented as they grow, move to secondary, and their needs for you are less time-consuming, and no longer bring an automatic social group at the school gates.

You say your friends drove hundreds of miles to help you. This suggests that you don't have local friends and this will also be a major factor in your loneliness. Have you made friends at work? What do you do for fun? Sports, clubs?

He left the funeral early and made out that he was doing you a favour to take the morningg off. His response to your telling him (again) that you were lonely was to tell you to get a job.

Sorry, but he doesn't sound like a good person at all.

Is he travelling lots because the IK is not the base? Would it be better if you could relocate abroad somewhere more central? I know that totally messes with DC's stability but it can be a very positive experience with many benefits.

It sounds like its come to crisis point :( and you need to think long and hard about what you do or don't want and will or won't accept before broaching the subject.

I have a friend like this. Works all hours, away from home a lot etc. He sees his main responsibility to provide for his family and his six-figure salary certainly does that. However, his marriage is really in trouble because he's rarely in his lavish home, his children treat him as a cash machine and everyone's grown further and further apart. At the moment they've settled on leading pretty separate lives and he's decided that's as good as he can hope for because he doesn't want the family to split. I don't think it's a great life but each to their own.

You need to talk.

the job is a red herring (although good for you) it's about the little time you spend together.

I would definitely say no Gym on a Sunday- he can exercise in the week.

He's probably taking the path of least resistance. You're not actually stopping him email on Sat/ Sun, so he does.

I'm not sure how old your children are, but have you considered how you will feel when they are teenagers and out all the time? Or when they leave home?

If you can't see him ever changing, then you have to consider what you want for your future in 5, 10, 15 years, when your children are otherwise occupied or have left home. If you want things to be different, if you want a relationship with someone who wants a relationship back with you, then at some point you are going to have to make a new life for yourself without him. That may well be easier to do sooner than later. Your children would probably adjust better whilst they are younger, and you may find it easier start a new life whilst they are still at home too, simply because it is often easier to get out and meet new people whilst you have school age children.

What happens at holiday time? Is it similar? I'm not saying it's right but I do understand the situation. I worked in a similar way in a very family unfriendly culture and once you're on the threadmill it's hard to get off. No doubt work has taken over his life like an addiction and he justifies the hours by the lifestyle he is able to provide to you and the family.

I think you need to try and discuss with your DH, explain that the balance isn't good for the family and it isn't good for him. No one can keep up this level of workload so he needs to alter something. Does he have a goal? Is there a financial objective he is looking to achieve? Is there a position he is aiming for?

How old are the children?

My h was like this for years- still is a bit over work -focussed, but way way better.

Some useful things I have learned:

• men ignore their wives and families because they can
• they arrange their lives so completely around work if they are emotionally unavailable at home

-the drive for such success, and the 'get to the top' characteristics of some people can be a replacement for low self esteem internally, even if seemingly v confident -people with internal low self esteem dont care about themselves enough to care about others enough

• the children are always affected, and it shows when they are teenagers
• he is telling you with his actions that you dont matter to him

-you provide family, stability and domestic support. The probably gets sex elsewhere, regardless of whether you currently believe this (I didnt, for 5 years)

You only have one life. So do your children.

If he wont take your needs and wants, or the kids, into account you have two sensible choice, and two only-

1. live with him to suit yourself, but build you own life, as he has done, without taking him into account- that may or may not include paid work

1. Tell him, and mean it, that you want to go to counselling, or that he must make some changes if you are to stay together. Dont get distracted by his 'buts'. When he resists, tell him you understand, but this is what YOU need, in order to stay.

FWIW, I think it takes a certain type of person to carry off 1. I did try it after our house move, and it didnt work for me, at all- I just didnt have it in me to live like that.

Agree with five.

OP your husband is in hiding.

He hides at work and then when he's home he hides in bed and at the gym.

He is a 'plastic' father and husband. He gets to have the appearance of a successful life with a well paid, exciting job and a wife and kids, but he invests nothing at all in the latter. If he invested nothing in the former, he'd never get away with it and would lose his job.

I'd also be very surprised if he was faithful.

His awful behaviour when your father died should have been the moment you woke up and realised that he is giving absolutely nothing to your relationship and doesn't care for your wellbeing. Do you think he loves you? Do you love him as he is now?

Hi Thirdandbird, I don't really have any words of wisdom but I wanted to point out that a lot of companies do pressure people way beyond the call of duty. My own boss is a 44 year old unmarried woman who is completely obsessed by her job - her blackberry is on 24/7 and she works every weekend. There is a culture in some workplaces that this kind of dedication to the job is non-negotiatable. I see your DH is the MD so he is setting the tone for everyone else. He is obviously a workaholic and finds all his affirmation and respect in the workplace and has opted out of family life. You need a big intervention - good luck.

I think you need to have a big chat with your ds and acknowledge his fears and his point, but explain that whatever happens he will be looked after and loved by both of you, but dont make him promises you might not be able to keep, and dont let him blame you

Third

Here are some of the qualities of effective leaders at work:

? Are self aware and aware of others
? Act as role models
? Manage their own emotions and sense of well-being
? Create and offer up visions of the future
? Empower others
? Display high quality inter-personal skills
? Give active encouragement and celebrate success

Does this look like your husband to you?

If not, he isnt effective anywhere, regardless of his paycheck.

Thirdandbird here is a big, unlawful mumsnet consoling and recognising hug.

Happily married single mother. Yup.
Except, like you, not happy. Yup.
Unlike you, I had an affair knife shoved into my back as the ultimate wake up call to make me face it.

I went to a Relate counsellor (not knowing about the other bit of Skin he had in his life), and she said the following: these emotionally unavailable men, actually arrange their lives LIKE THIS so they do not have to relate. They choose careers which will uphold this: City, oil rigs, ex pat contracts, night shifts. They actually have big walls up which shut you out, it is not your fault it is from their childhood and it is not your imagination.

My advise to you, is to be really brave and face this now. Then work on you.

Well done for getting a job. Develop this/your education so that you can start a richer fuller life. Hobbies and friends etc.

And my final bit of advice? When you have the Talk, do it in email so you have it in writing. Establish using your dating/marital history he would not be where he is now, without your efforts and support. Get him to acknowledge it. In writing.

That is a very strong and big hint.