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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relate for probs with inlaws

75 replies

ethelb · 23/03/2012 15:28

Following a massive row last we with dp regarding his parents I want to go to Relate to sort this out. It has happened before and is the one bone of contention in the relationship.

DP is heppy to come but feels that he doesn't think it will do anything as he doesn't know what to say.

Is relate the right place for this kind of thing.

OP posts:
PooPooInMyToes · 08/05/2012 14:40

Sorry to hear that @poopoo. How is the rest of the relationship?

It's great actually. This is pretty much the only problem we have had (well any lasting one).

The only other way our relationship is affected by this is my husbands low self esteem which has been undoubtably caused by his parents conditional love. That sounds wanky but I'm sure you know what I mean - he fears disagreeing with them as though something terrible will happen if he does. It does make me wonder what they (his dad mostly although his mum is an emotional blackmailer) used to say to him when he was younger to leave him feeling like this.

Actually I do know the answer to that question as I have seen it myself. His dad gets this "how dare YOU question ME" attitude. He's always trying to outdo my husband in intellect and knowledge, in fact he does that a lot. A very judgmental, critical sort of fella. Every argument he's ever had is someone else fault.

I actually think I might hate him for what he's done to my husband. It's left him with long term depression, had no get up and go or motivation or confidence (although no one who met him would have thought that) and he used to feel terribly rejected if we didn't have sex for a while. I think he thought it was sex he needed but it was actually love and affection. He's on medication now and it's helped so much.

Jux · 08/05/2012 14:42

Good luck tomorrow.

EldritchCleavage · 08/05/2012 17:12

Yes it is a case of believing your parents are perfect which I don't ever remember doing with regard to my parents which is a problem as we are coming from this at such different angles.

Believing your parents are perfect is something most people grow out of by their mid-20s though. That's when, while we will always be their children, most of us start to have 'adult to adult' relationships with our parents.

It is interesting that your DH seemingly hasn't, and I wonder why this is? Denial, repression, not really ever having 'separated' from them? It isn't horrid or disloyal to see your parents as flawed, it is just normal, if not healthy. We are all flawed.

PooPooInMyToes · 08/05/2012 17:27

Well put Eldritch.

Jux · 08/05/2012 19:17

TBH, I thought most people stopped thinking their parents were perfect during their teens. It does seem a bit odd to be married/settled and to still be thinking that.

ethelb · 09/05/2012 22:16

We have just got back from our session and it went ok.
Dp surprisingly said that he thought he should have supported me in the situation on Friday though I said I didn't trust him to support me in future as we have such different opinions of what constitutes unacceptable behaviour on his part. I also said that I feel that the family are a bit delusional abouthis behaviour.
I also said that I feel blamed for all of this and it is unfair that dp has expectations of my behaviour but none of his father.
The councillor said she thought that dp was not blaming me and did say she thought I was asking dp to dislike his father which I don't agree with.
I said that we feel it would be best if dp goes to see them alone for long stretches though I could do a day occassionslly as I don't feel supported and dp doesn't want to see me unhappy.
She suggested that dp speaks to his father about his relationship with me. Dp said he would be willing to do this but on the way back we questioned if this would be a good idea.
We are fine though and agreed that we are happy as a couple and that I don't feel that dp's love for his father is stopping him from loving me and vice versa.

OP posts:
jumpingship · 10/05/2012 07:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ethelb · 10/05/2012 08:22

I do see what you are saying jumping and part of it is that it is a family thing however I spent 3 years trying to do it the way you suggest and dp was still unhappy so we ended up at relate. It was not successful.

OP posts:
diddl · 10/05/2012 08:29

It seems to me that the problem is that your husband wants/expects you to interact with his parents.

Why can´t he let you have the relationship you want-as he does with yours?

In that way he sounds quite like his father tbh.

I find my ILs really hard to get on with-as does my husband.

He´s willing to put up with MILs innane witterings.

I just get the "formalities" over with & engage or not as I see fit.

With regard to the shopkeeper anecdote I doubt that I would have engaged-or told him to get help for him fantasies of bullying.

He sounds really, really odd.

ethelb · 10/05/2012 09:19

@diddle he is ok with it now and is quite accepting of the decision to limit seeing his parents, and is looking forward to less of this stuff in fact.

He does realise that he was wrong to criticise me biting my tongue, or not engaging with the various comments, and accepts my feeling that that is all very well but it is a bit late now to go back to that.

He is very against confronting his father about his behaviour at a 'calm time' in the future, despite what the councellor said, which is fine by me, but consolidates my beleife that he will not get involved if his father attacks me again.

OP posts:
diddl · 10/05/2012 11:20

"he will not get involved if his father attacks me again."

Yes, that´s not on, is it?

"and we have to go along with all his little pretentious, smug games."

No, you don´t-you could leave & I would at least suggest this to your husband tbh-that you both stop pandering to this.

And re "debating" with FIL-does he ever listen-is there any point-how does your husband get on when he does this?

And when he goes off on a tirade-surely no response is better-as a response is what he wants?

It sounds as if the ILs treat you both like children & actually "gang up" against you as bullies would.

Has your husband ever stood up to them-perhaps that is "all" that is needed-just once?

ethelb · 10/05/2012 12:30

We went over in the first session the fact that i don't think they are 'debates' they are just the family sitting down and listening to his father talking and agreeing with him. The councellor agreed that this is what it was and assured DP that that was ok as it is what families do sometimes, but perhaps it wasn't easy for me to slip into this mode of conversation.

Yes no response is better to his tirade, though as I have mentioned above this was tried and is no longer an option.

DP has never stood up to his parents as he has never seen a need to.

I don't think they treat us like children, I just think his father enjoys our attention which he demands and I will no longer give.

OP posts:
diddl · 10/05/2012 12:50

TBH, even if his father was debating, not everyone has to join in all of the time!

"and told DP he was stupid to not listen to him."-well it doesn´t seem as if he has any respect for either of you!

So it´s his way or the high way!

I´d certainly see them as little as possible!

What makes you think that they´ll be good GPs-especially if FIL lectures & berates/insults people who don´t agree/won´t join in?

ethelb · 10/05/2012 12:59

@diddle I don't think I can assume anything about grandparentage as people do change.

My grandparents changed when they became grandparents according to my parents, and I have individual relationships with all of them that are v different to my parents relationships with them.

Plus, if they aren't ok then as the mother of their granchildren I also think I will have far more sway than as the girlfriend of their child. And I will have an excuse to get the fuck out of there if FIL is being a megatwat.

Plus, why would I worry about this now? It may never happen and there is fuck all I can do about it.

OP posts:
HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 14:44

They do not sound toxic, but annoying.

I disagree with jumpship there: your average well-meaning-but-annoying person will usually be concerned if you point out that their behaviour is upsetting or offensive to you. Your average toxic person, by contrast, will turn on you for daring to intimate that they are not Flawless Perfection itself.

OP's FIL falls in the latter category.

He sounds like a right narcissist, ethel. Have you come across this book yet?

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 14:45

Oh, whoops. I see I already recommended it in page 1.

ethelb · 10/05/2012 16:07

@HOtdamn What exactly does toxic mean? i don't like labelling people, and for all I know FIL is digging out a toxic dil book as we speak!

OP posts:
HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 17:36

What exactly does toxic mean?

I don't think there's an exact definition, but here's my best approximation:

People who take more than they give.
Who are corrosive to your wellbeing, and unable or unwilling to change despite the harm they cause to those around them, even when this harm is pointed out to them.
The unpleasable, who only see their own needs and cannot empathise with others'.
People who cannot respect you as a sovereign human being in your own right, with your own thoughts, feelings and opinions, and instead seek to manipulate or control you, and are insensed by the existence of your own throughts, feelings and opionion when those come into conflicts with how they think you should be.

i don't like labelling people

Labelling people is not a good thing, I agree. But it can be a temporary help when you are struggling to understand why you get so upset at someone's behaviour: some find it helps "allow" them to start saying No to that behaviour, where before they may have endured that behaviour in silent discomfort. For example, even though only a MH professional can make a diagnosis, you might benefit from a feeling of "OMG, it's not me; it's them!" if you find your PILs in lists of common traits of the personality disordered. Plenty here have.

The label doesn't have to be a permanent thing, rather a help towards identifying those behaviours which you will and will not accept. As you are perfectly entitled to do. I mean, that's the ultimate aim: not to label others, but to be clear about where your limits lie, and to feel entitled to enforce them.

If you can do all this without any labels anywhere, more power to you!

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 18:03

In my view, your FIL's reaction to your presenting him with your "reality" is a good illustration of why his behaviour is so very upsetting (and quite possibly "toxic" according to the MN labelling Wink ), because he is trying to deny your right to have your own reality.

Fairly Normal Person: "While I may not agree with your "reality" and may even quite strongly dislike it, I do not deny your right to have views of your own, just as I have mine. Only you can know how you experience my behaviour."

Toxic Unbearable Person: "How dare you say something that comes into conflict with my reality? I experience that as an attack on my self , so I will react with denial, blame, rage, or floods of tears in self-defence. I need you to accept my reality and can't cope with you having your own."

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 10/05/2012 18:11

(FIL's reality apparentlly being: "FIL is right about all things, and superior to all people." The poor man must have a hell of job trying to maintain that illusion! I can imagine that there are a lot of daily threats to his "reality" - like totally normal interactions with shop assistants... - and that your H has long ago learned that he'd better be a supporting actor in this charade if he doesn't want his head chewed off at every turn.)

ethelb · 10/05/2012 23:26

I do feel that dp is a bit of a player in the charade which is my main beef.
I do worry about the fall out though when he realises this. I was looking at some reviews of the book you mentioned and a few people have mentioned this being a problem.

OP posts:
jumpingship · 11/05/2012 05:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 11/05/2012 07:17

So how do you deal with someone like that or put them in their place?

You run a mile, once you've tested and accepted the "unwilling or unable to change despite the harm they cause, even when this is pointed out to them" bit.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 11/05/2012 07:24

"Running a mile" can take the form of emotional detachment, if you have olympian calm and have processed all your frustration and anger at the person through other means.

HotDAMNlifeisgood · 11/05/2012 07:38

And if you really HAVE to keep interacting with a toxic person, and you have attained emotional detachment (very hard), the best thing to do in these interactions is NOT to enable them by going along with their warped reality - since that comes at the expense of your own - but to keep calmly stating when their behaviour upsets you, using "I" statements, which no one but a nutter can deny (since only you can know your own feelings).

eg. "FIL, you just did/said X. That makes me feel angry/confused/upset/other. I want you to apologise/consider that you're wrong/do Y or Z instead."

Basically, treat them like 3-year-olds, which is how far along they are in terms of emotional development.

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