Is this what it was? A rel tinted by emotional abuse? Is it why I felt so low? Is it not because I am mad then?

[AllQuietOnThePippisFront]

You can prob tell from the therad title that I am still a bit shocked at this revelation that ring so true.

My dh and I are starting sep proceeding, slowly and with heavy steps, but we are starting nevertheless. Reading throught various thread I have stumbled upon EA and froze. Can it be that I, a previously strong willed independent intelligent educated free woman, has not only fallen into this trap but took such a long time to realise what has been happening to me and the whys?

I am so pleased I have made this discovery for I feel liberated and not insane.

If my dh has been EA it was not at the worse end of the spectrum but it was bad enough to make me feel trapped, dead inside, that my life is awful, that there is something wrong with me, that I am not allowed to be me, that being me is wrong and bad etc

I have been going to therapy for a year (him having refused on the ground that it is all my problem) and I have always tried to understand his behaviour, often feeling very frustrated that nobody was trying to understand mine. Now I do not care about his reasons, now I am thinking about my reasons and my wellbeing and it feels good. I could sit here and discuss the single incidents and ask you what you think and how bad so you think it is etc but I am not because I do not care. I have realised that how bad he meant bears no rel with how bad it feels - meaning that he may not have done it intentionally, say, knowing no better from his childhood blah blah blha, but if it is bad for me it is bad enough.
I cannot wait to speak to my therapist who was always trying to make me see his version of the story etc. I am so keen to ask her why that was and to see if she is glad I have realised this and I am so convinced on the sep, her seeming not as keen.

I don't know why I am telling you this, not really looking for a specific advice (I welcome any you want to give, or your stories etc for this is the only way for one to learn) - I guess I wanted to share with the world the joy I feel inside for having found the combination for the lock of my cage door.

I know it will be hard separating with two young dc but nothing will be hard as livng this life (I have known that for a long time).

thank you for listening.

If it had been at the worse end of the spectrum you would have seen it for what it was. Its very subtlety kept you doubting yourself.

Your STBXH may not be able to help it (you'll probably never get to the bottom of that), and your therapist may help you find a way to forgive him and let go of bitterness, but that still doesn't mean he was any easier to live with. The therapist was not that great if she focussed on explaining away the small incidents whilst failing to see the big picture.

I would suggest the books written by Patricia Evans...which explain why you cannot be your true self with people like this. She explains that they have an idea of who you are entrenched in their phyche, and when you deviate from that ideal, they panic, like an abandoned toddler.

I would also suggest that you change counsellor to one that specialises in abuse. Not all do, and those that don't will only add to your distress and discomfort....and I would do that today! In fact...now. It takes a long time to get over having your identity sucked out of you! You need someone who knows what they're doing to help, not one that makes it worse!

Emotional abuse is very common and it is often very subtle behavioural conditioning, carried out over a long, long period of time. In my case it started small with little digs and jibes... often passed off as good-natured teasing, 'where's your sense of humour?'... nothing you could put your finger on, as you say. Anyone who values understanding and compatibility in a relationship rather than antagonism makes allowances, laughs it off or gives them the benefit of the doubt. The teasing gradually morphed into outright criticism or contempt. He alternated bouts of extraordinarily bad behaviour with extremely kind and affectionate behaviour which led to me rationalising it ... it was just a one-off, a bad mood, a bit of stress... he's lovely really. They use flattery... 'I'm only jealous because I love you so much'. I got so used to making allowances that my definition of 'normal' & 'acceptable' got totally skewed. I think it's that mismatch and betrayal of your own standards which leads to the feeling of being dead.

Yes, even indendent, intelligent, strong women can find it happening to them very easily. Takes balls to make that step back, snap out of the hypnotism and say 'enough'. Well done :)

What a great post!

I am so pleased for you that you have come to this realisation, it's the start of something really great for you.

I would report the counsellor if I were you. It is NOT her job to try to make you see your husband's point of view, it is her job to let you explore your feelings and to give you a safe place to talk. If you want to go back to her to tell her your realisation, do, but please end it there. I'm worried she might influence you.

I would second singingprincesses's suggestion of finding a counsellor who specialises in abuse.

You have made me smile. Thank you

oh singingprincess this is sooo true you cannot be your true self with people like this. She explains that they have an idea of who you are entrenched in their phyche, and when you deviate from that ideal, they panic, like an abandoned toddler. that is exactly how it has been. I have disappeared behind this idea, and even when I tried to be that i failed, obviously.

I will order that book now, I have seen it recommended loads on MN.

I am tempted to change therapist for the one I am seeing is more experienced in motherhoood and children (chosen by me because I thought I had a problem with motherhood - having believed that what shook my confidence was that - true only to a point for I always believe that as a single mother I'd have find it hard but not so pshychologically challenging).
Often I felt with my therapist that she praised me for assuaging my dh tantrum, for understanding them rather than making me see that they were not right. I will investigate. Maybe she knows what she is doing. Maybe it is thanks to her that I saw the light. Maybe if she had said it out loud I'd have defended my 'often lovely' dh.

Annie yes my STBXH (took me a bit to get it but I LOVE IT!) does not see it, for a lot of reasons, hence me suggesting we go to theraoy together or he goes - part of me feels it is a shame that an otherwise generous man has to ruin his own life (the last thing he wants is to ruin the family he loves and hurt his dc) because he has no courage to look into himself. But I have tried and tried, and not by just pointing the finger, being in theraoy myself, it is time for me to let him deal with his own demons.

I will ask the therapist what is the big picture she saw - that is a good point. And I will see what she says when I will tell her we are really separating (always seeming unsure it was the right thing to do and we had to rty more for the sake of the childre - but maybe she wanted me to know why I wanted to separate, why I was feeling that bad, why this was not right: to have the stregth to carry it through. Lets see.)

I wonder if you had the same therapist we did?!

My ex was EA, thankfully I was only wth him for a couple of years but it was long enough for me to "lose" myself completely. The lies he would tell were bizarre, utterly random. He would make me feel that everything was my fault.

I insisted we went for counselling as I wanted to make sure that I had tried everything you know? And the counseller was shit. She totally believed everything that came out of his mouth, totally dismissed my side of things, even when I eventually managed to get him to admit certain lies he'd told.

I believed in myself though and finally walked away. And ALL of my family and friends said "Thank God for that". Once I started living again I rediscovered myself and it was fab!

Well done you! And good luck

Although, as singingprincess says, she might just be a not very good therapist! Perhaps good for a couple of reasonable people who have difficulty relating to each other, but no good at all when one party is an abuser. Nice people sometimes just don't get that not everyone could be, or even wants to be, nice.

X-posted with Shakey, now that was a baaaaad counsellor.

Actually, the therapist may be pushing the right buttons. By asking you to consider his side of the story, it's highlighting that you've been doing that for far too long. By putting you on the defensive, she's got you sticking up for your own feelings more than his. I think - even if it's unintentional - her approach has been remarkably effective.

CallingDana I am so pleased I have made you smile? and thanks for saying it is a great post too.

I am very ambivalent in re to the therapist. I have felt that she did not get me and the situation but I also kept doubting myself as this is what I have been doing for the past tot years. Our couple therapist (which become my therapist after dh decided it was nothing to do with him) also did not seem too straight forward as I wanted her to be but I felt she was on my side too. Maybe I am saying this about them because ideally I want them to tell me what to do and how things are, which they cant - they have to make you discovere them for yourself. But I will def question it.

On a practical level I have called 3 stetae agents to have our house valued and contacted a few family lawyers. So I am doing something.

cogito yes, in a way I think that was she did. I hope she was doing intentionally.
I am sure that the couple therapist GOT it straight away, got me, got him and got the type of rel. even I if I look back I shudder and shrink at how we must look. But he did not keep it up and I remember them writing him a letter pleading for him to keep it up, for they must have seen that is was of utmost importance. I kept going for a while but it was a family therapy so could not go alone.
this one has never met him and so she has what I say to make a judgment. and this may take more time and more work. In her last session she did make me see that I need to be strong and blieve in me and my reason for taking a step as hard as splitting up a family. and now I feel I am. which feels great. I am not naive and I know there will be plenty of tears and despair but at least I will be in my own safe little house, eating cereals and loving myself.

If I could only tell you some example you will have no doubts but I dont need to anymore, because I know!

And I have to say thanks to MN to for it helped me surviving the loneliness after the birth of my dc and now this. . I will be forever grateful!

Interesting that your therapist works with mothers and children and that she congratulated you on dealing well with your stbx's tantrum - as if he were a 3 year old.

Please change your therapist - perhaps your local branch of women's aid could point you in the direction of a suitable one. Also, please make sure that they work under supervision - that they have their own counsellor to offload onto, I went to someone who didn't and he made things even worse.

tb, what a valid point. Yes it seemed very much like that. Without going on details there was an instance where it took me 3 weeks and then 3 hours to make dh discuss something with me. something very straight forward. She did congratulate me on my skills and my patience and my ability to think about what he felt. Having said that all the praise that she gave me has been beeficial in making me feel worthy, intelligent and not mad.

I agree on what you all ay about it and I will question it tomorrow and point out about the abusive element and see what she says.

I'm very curious to hear what her response is.

will report tomorrow. I am curious too.

If I feel I want to stop, can I do that?

Do you mean stop counselling? If so, of course you can, you can just walk out in the middle of a session if you want to.

How did it go AllQuiet?

Apologies for disappearance. Life took over. CailinDana Will update tonight. Thanks for being nosey!