What if your friend only wants to hear things that she agrees with?

[ameliagrey]

was going to name change for this but won't.

A friend of 30+ years has reached a crisis point in her marriage. I's been coming for a long time. The difference is that now her DH has taken control and is evaluating whether he wants to carry on. Her behaviour- won't go into details- has been awful at times - she started divorce proceedings a few years back then dropped it. He works overseas but she does't live there- her choice- and she has also told him many times that when he comes back to the UK permanently, she doesn't want him at their home.

Some of this was said in anger but terrible things have been said.

He is not blameless, but she is very demanding and nothing he does is ever good enough.

Over the years 20+- we have had long, long conversations about her marriage and what to do. I have often seen both sides and tried to tactfully say so.

Now that things have reached crisis point though we have had one conversation- when I was sympathetic but also saw his side and said his reaction was not unexpected given the way she has behaved.

She now appears to be avoiding talking to me. We have had a couple of phone calls when she refused to discuss it as she didn't want to get upset-but she did say she had spoken to another close friend who I think will tell her always that she is 100% in the right.So I feel a bit pushed out.

I am wondering how to play it when she is home? I want to be supportive, but when she asks me for advice- which she did - I can't just tell her she is 100% in the right because she isn't.

I wonder if I should just say that I can't comment but will listen?

when I say come home, she has gone on holiday for 3 weeks - he might be with her, he might not be!

I'd leave her to it. Some people just want an echo-chamber, not a friend. She's liked your company up to now because you haven't challenged her view of the world. Now that you are proving to have opinions that clash with hers, she clearly doesn't want to know, preferring to talk to another yes-woman. You describe her as 'demanding' and that kind of fits the profile. If she does ask for advice say 'it's none of my business' 'I don't want to get involved' 'this is something only you can decide' etc. and change the subject.

We are very close- I don't have a sister, but it feels like how I imagine a sister would be! We can talk 3 times a week or at least once a week. it will be hard to avoid the topic as I know she will bring it up but I think even keeping quiet will show that I am not fully behind her.......

Yousee, I've been gently saying for years that it is remarkable he has not "strayed" given how things are ( hehas a high powered job, loads of money,, good looking etc) and she constantly rejects him. her attitude up till now has been that "it's up to him" - but now he is reassessing what he wants she has become terrified of losing him.

Hi I can't really give any advice cause I'm in the same situation (friend wants to leave her DH take the 2 DC and move in with a man she's only known 3 months but only met once) I have tried to give advice but cause it's not shat she wants to hear she doesn't listen. I want to shake her and ask what she thinks she is doing, but I have decided that I will be here for her if/when everything falls apart. Going to lurk and see if the advice you get will fit this situation. Hope everything works out for you and your friend. :)

You're only close when you're agreeing with her. How often are your problems discussed in these 3-weekly chats or does it tend to always come around to hers? She probably likes you because you 'gently' say things, don't challenge her very much and seem to be rather in awe of her. Here's the test.... when she brings it up again try 'it's really none of my business' and then see how long the phone-call lasts after you've said it. My bet is that you can measure it in seconds...

I am definitely not in awe of her! I think she backs off because I do challenge her. I ronically she is very outspoken with me and I have over the years hung up on her a couple of times because she was almost screaming at me about what I ought to do with a situaiton.

During our last chat she said she was having a terrible time, didn;t want to talk about it then, and pretty much shut the conversation down. She didn't ask one thing about what i was doing at the weekend.

Seeing as you are so close and talk such a lot, maybe just ask her what she wants to talk about. Or if she'd prefer you didn't discuss her relationship problems anymore. ?

If you want to keep close and frequent contact with her, but don't like her reaction when you challenge her, one thing that might work is to not give her any advice, or to state you views, but instead just ask her open questions when she brings up the topic, eg.:

Friend: "Bla bla bla what should I do?"

You: "What do you want to do?"

Friend: "I want x y and z. Do you think that's a good idea?"

You: "How would you achieve x? When could you do y? Who could help you with z? Why do you think x y and z are your best options?"

Etc: basically don't let her corner you into making statements of your own opinion; instead just develop whatever topic she's thrown out there with any question that begins with Who, What, Why, When, Where, or How.

Then she can't get angry at you, because it's only her own thoughts and opinions that will have been stated, and you can still remain true to herself by asking her to question what she's just told you if it's something you disagree with, without out-and-out saying that you disagree with it.

Just a thought.

Difficult when you have major disagreement with friends related to their choice or relationship with partner.

I really think the only thing is to be honest about your feelings (once), remain calm at the reaction (it may be angry) and then back off, back off, back off and find more interesting and enjoyable things to do with your time...

Personally, I find it exhausting when people go on about themselves or their relationships ad infinitum. Its not a conversation, its a one-sided lecture. Is that how you experience it?

I think the basic problem is that she paints herself as being (almost) perfect and he is 90% bad. Which he isn't. I have been speechless in the past at the way she has behaved, but didn't show my feelings. Whenever I have it's like lighting the blue touch paper- she is always right- or has to be!

What I suggested last conversation was that if the marriage is to work, she has to meet him hlaf way and make some changes to her behaviour. she agreed but obviously now only wants her other friend who I imagine says "there, there..." and makes her think it's all his fault.

she is in a state of shock really- he has always said he doesn't want a divorce, but suddenly he is having a re-think and she doesn't like not being in control. The marriage to my mind has been dead in the water for years and has only tottered along because they spend so little time together.

Hot yes they are good ideas- thank you.

She sounds bloody hard work!

Which I suspect is the conclusion her husband has come too...

AHHH deleted my reply by accident so here goes again.

She sounds like hard work and more trouble than she is worth. Is it a good friendship if you have to censor yourself or risk her sulking/punishment? And is it good if you have to put so much thought into conversations before they happen? She sounds bossy as well and hypocritical to be pushing advice on you, but then not liking it if you disagree with her decisions even when she asks for you opinion.

I have a friend who has recently become very bossy for some reason. She has been trying to force her opinion on me about some things she thinks I should do with my life, when she has no idea what she is talking about. It is weird, she is almost insistent about it. I also noticed her doing this with a mutual friend who was going through a hard time. It irritated me so much that I started re-evaluating the friendship and I have decided to let it go (but die a natural death rather than an outright friendship because of the mutual friend. This should not be difficult as I realised I was the one making most of the effort anyway).

You might find it a relief to let her go. Even though you have a history that is not necessarily enough to keep it going. You can find other friends to create history with, maybe ones that will suit you better at this stage in your life. In a way she sounds like a sister, a bad bossy one! (I have a sister like this and have very little contact with her now which is a great relief).

It would be hard to let the friendship go as she is godmother to one of my children, I met DH through her and she has been in my life was around 33 years! we are not youngsters as you can work out from that.

TBH she has changed as a result of her DHs job/money. She is now what would be considered wealthy. I don't have a problem with that. But she has no children and no job. She spends her time doing nice stuff and taking people who need help under her wing- sorting out their problems, way beyond what you'd call a good neighbour. I have no issue with that either-BUT it is all about her at the end of the day- it makes her feel useful and in control.

She IS very bossy and forthright- to the extent that we have had big rows on the past when she has been trying to advise me and just hasn't "got it" IMO. She usually starts those conversations with an "I am trying to phrase this so it won't annoy you...." then goes on to say exactly what she thinks.

The issue now is that she can't take me being forthright back.

I think my strategy is going to be to let her talk if she wants to, but not ask, andnot to offer any kind of opinion- and if she asks i will say something bland like other people's marriages are a mystery and it's not for me to comment.

Unless I'm going mad, I'm sure I've seen other threads from you about this friendship and there was one just a couple of weeks ago that I commented on, but the site ate my post

If I'm right, the reason this man's re-evaluating is because he's having an affair isn't he? I recall that he'd pretended nothing had happened with some woman he'd met abroad, but that's not very likely is it?

In which case, your friend probably senses that you think she had this coming to her - and quite a bit of schadenfraude on your part. So I think she's being quite sensible not talking to you about it. You don't sound as though you like her very much and whether that's justifiable or not, from her point of view she will want and need people in her corner who will help her deal with her hurt, not tell her or even imply that she was to blame for her own misfortune.

Also, I don't think any of us can ever really know what goes on in a marriage and she might have had good reasons for rejecting her husband and wanting to divorce him - there might have been things she wouldn't and hasn't told you - either because she thinks you've got different values or because she doesn't entirely trust your motives towards her.

No Hatty that is not quite right. I wrote about something along these lines a month or more ago and her DH admitted he had had a coffee with a work colleague and enjoyed it. It's not an affair. Unless he is lying and who knows.

I think you- from the tone of your post- don't "get" how close my friend and I are. 33 years is a looooong time!

I may not know everything but I do know one hell of a lot- and way more than I'd post here for fear of outing any of us. if I added up the hours she had spent talking to me about their marriage it would run into months if not years!

I think what i am saying- and you are right to a degree- is that the writing was on the wall, I did try to warn her ( which is different from saying she had it coming to her which sounds spiteful) but she didn't want to listen.

and Hatty as for taking pleasure in her misfortune- what a mean thing to say!
Not pleasure & not even self-righteouness- but I have tried to say that if she kept on doing X then Y might happen - and her repsonse was always that either no, it wouldn't or if it did she didn't care. Now it has, she does care.

Thanks for confirming my memory isn't failing me - yes I saw that thread and thought it was obvious her husband was lying. I think it's an affair and I'm surprised you don't, to be honest. I don't think a coffee with someone is a likely catalyst for such a major re-evaluation of a marriage that he seems to have wanted to stay in for decades, until now. If your friend posted this scenario on here, I doubt that many posters would take this at face value either.

I also understand about the length of friendship and have very close ones of even longer duration myself, but for me the biggest issue in your posts is that it doesn't sound as though you particularly like your friend. It's also not clear what you were trying to 'warn' her about in the past - her marriage getting worse or her husband cheating on her? She could have done something about the former, but not the latter because if he was going to cheat then there wasn't anything she could have done about that.

Ultimately, she doesn't want to share this experience with you - which is sad after a long friendship, but I can see why it's happened and why she might sense a feeling of 'I told you so' coming from you, especially if she realises what seems obvious and thinks you believe she could have prevented it.

Hatty- I know him pretty well and doubt it was an affair I don't want to talk world geography, companies and positions etc, but believe me that when I say that circumstances- 1000s of miles apart and all of the above- would make an affair almost impossible, you are going to have to believe me! of course no one really knows.

I DO like her but I also think she has changed, and has been a bit blinkered in the approach she has taken tot he marriage. She may well talk about it- but for 2 weeks she was not rushing to return my calls- but that may change.

It's very difficult when a friend takes a course of action you think is wrong/misguided and then reaps the reward. I don't think you need to break friends with her (don't we all disagree with some of what our friends do some of the time?) but equally you need to find a way to either stop her worst exaggeration of her behaviour/get her onto a different topic. I find looking a bit vague, saying 'hmmm, I hadn't really thought of it like that' and waiting for them to stop works.

It may also be that during this time, she does turn more to her friend who agrees vigorously with everything she says, but there's a role for someone who is prepared to have a more mature and nuanced discussion, and she may appreciate this as well as want an outlet for moaning.

I privately think things about my friends sometimes, doesn't mean they aren't great friends, equally, they may be thinking the same about you. The best friendships have a lot of slack in them, perhaps times when you are less close and then life means you come together more. I would weather the storm, try not to say too much about the relationship (she doesn't want to hear right now what a plonker she's been) and enjoy activities/other topics of conversation. If she calls three times a week, be busy two of them and make sure she listens to you too.

Why do you bother talking to her bout it? As others have said, just be anera,asounding board and dont offer any comments.

Some people can't take criticism, suggestions or advice.

AN EAR, not anera.

I appreciate all the comments but the trouble with this is that I find myself getting dragged in to say and explain more and more- at the rsik of outing us all.

My last comment here.... I rarely ask- last time i saw her she was very upset and asked literally, "What should I do?"

And during our last phone chat which was very short, she said this was the saddest and most difficult time of her adult life, that things were horrible with DH and she had had an horrendous weekend talking things over with him.

It's hard not to ask what she means or what has happened when she volunteers things like that.

Well it might not be an affair but I'd be surprised if it wasn't an infidelity, given that he lives abroad. Something has caused this in him, hasn't it?

From what I remember from your other thread, she told you about this woman he'd met and his 're-evaluation' of the marriage all in the same phone call. You've said in this OP that you

"said his reaction was not unexpected given the way she has behaved."

What did you mean by that? And crucially, what do you think she thought you meant by that?

You also said you've:

"been gently saying for years that it is remarkable he has not "strayed" given how things are ( hehas a high powered job, loads of money,, good looking etc) and she constantly rejects him."

I think she might think you're blaming her for her husband's behaviour - and maybe you are? If so, that's the last thing she'd need right now when she's feeling so lost and at sea. She's had a shock and I'm not surprised she's so sad.
What she needs right now is some empathy for her pain - and nothing much else in the way of comment or advice. Although if she asks you outright if you think she is to blame for this, I hope you'll feel able to say that she was only jointly responsible for her marriage and nothing else her husband chose to do.

Later on though, I'd be pointing out that if they want to save their marriage, they've both got to fight for it and it shouldn't be her making all the efforts to hang on to him, losing her dignity in the process.