Divorce - New to MN & forum but have a really difficult situation, OH wants children & all my income

[Smileymum1]

Hello, I have spent some time this afternoon reading through the support you give one another, and hope you can help me. After 20 years together we are divorcing. We have 3 children boys are 14, 12 and my little girl is just 3. I found out he was having an affair just before I found out I was pregnant with my little girl. It had lasted a year at that point, I don't know how many there have been before or since but suspect several.

He borrowed money on our mortgage to invest in a a number of different ventures, including a property development business all of which have failed, and provided no regular or substantial income. Meanwhile I have worked full time in a very pressured job to keep the cashflow and meet our outgoings. My salary isn't enough so he has been paying money into our joint account which I now find out is not from his business but borrowed from his parents - now totalling £57,000 over the last 4 years! Despite this debts are huge & as I was the one with best credit history, mostly in my name.

I have avoided talking about the problems in front of the children, but he has been discussing it all with them - making it out to be my fault we are divorcing, and convincing them they are better off with him! My eldest son says he would like to live with his dad (though I expect this may change once he really is), my other son is torn - he wants to be with his dad and brother but is lovely and normal with me when they are not around. Finally, just yesterday my dd said 'me want live daddy'. completely out of the blue as we were getting ready to leave the house for work & nursery. When I asked why she said that her reply was 'daddy told me'

I was drinking quite a lot of wine each evening and he is using this to say that a court would not allow me to have the children as I am not a fit parent. However I am the one that has maintained a full time job, provided a regular salary and seen to their daily needs. I was on antidepressants because of the situation, but have now come off these and cut back the wine. This has made him more argumentative and confrontational as I think he realises his one argument is flawed.

He keeps saying he is trying to make everything fair, but just had a letter from his solicitor on Friday which says he is to have the children, proceeds from house sale to be split 60/40 in his favour. I am to pay him 25% of my salary for the childrens maintenance, plus half of school fees and nursery fees (which actually exceeds my monthly income).

He has spent all day asking me about my response to the letter, despite the fact that I keep saying I will respond after I have seen my solicitor on tuesday. He is getting more and more cross, but I am holding my ground at the moment. I just really don't like the way he keeps doing it all in front of the children.

i don't want to mess with the boys if they want to go with their dad. I will see them every day as they will come to me after school each day, but I don't want them to be brainwashed with rubbish, and I really don't want dd to experience the same.

Dont worry.

I dont believe for a moment he will get them. Make sure you have a list and any back up evidence you can of his shenanigans. Make sure his financial past is disclosed to your solicitor, as well as the adultery, as they are less concerned about adultery but the former will show him in a very poor light, re sense of responsibility. It will also show his motivations for wanting the children.

Do try not to speak to him apart from via solicitor- you are doing really well at that, so far. Well done you.

It is easy to see how anyone would drink too much wine, given the crap you have been through. Congratulations again on recognising and stopping that.

He can demand what he wants , cant he? He usually does. Doesnt mean he will get it though. Your solicitor will have demands too.

I do know that the courts are reluctant to separate children. However, if he tries to get them and you contest it, social services (I think it is them) will interview the kids, and are brilliant at picking up kids who have been schooled and manipulated by dad. My SIL had a similar experience.

I think it's CAFCASS fiventhree.

What a really horrible situation you are in OP

Do you have records of past financial goings on? Collect them now - while he's out on his 4 evenings. Also keep records of convos between you and also incidents with kids. Keep detailed records - dates, times etc.

this concerned me though: From experience if i step in it just makes it worse. Please intervene! YOur ds needs to know that what his father does is abuse - stand up to him when he is doing this to your son.

I would also recommend you immediately enrol on the Freedom Programme - it will open your eyes and bolster your confidence that what your H is doing is appalling.

Also contact Womens Aid 0808 2000 247 and/or have a look at their website.

He's playing very dirty and you have to have your wits about you - hence get as much support as possible.

And keep posting. We're here.

Freedom Programme

I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time.

It is really hard not to worry when a solicitors letter turns up with blatantly unreasonable demands....my husband's ex-wife had letters coming from her solicitor which listed her 'income needs', which totalled more than his net salary initially. She didn't get anything like that much, obviously, but it was still stressful for him at the time.

I agree with the previous posters - only communicate on such matters via your solicitor and do not be drawn into a face to face discussion on it.

If you are the children's main carer, I can't see that that would change.

One thing to think about....if your children are currently at private school, it may be that with debts and two households to pay for instead of one it simply isn't feasible to pay the fees any more. It might be worth at least starting to plan for what might happen if they changed school system.

I would play hardball now.

If you hear him kicking off at your child, tape it on your phone for a couple of minutes (as long as you know your son is safe) and then walk in, still recording (in pocket) and try to calm things down. Let him go over the top. Don't respond in the way he does. Stay calm, tell him his language is inappropriate. Don't say, "You always do this" or play in any way to the recorder. Just be reasonable.

Likewise whenever he seems like he's going to get confrontational, record him. Stay reasonable. Take the recordings to the solicitor.

In other words, let him hang himself.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was the main earner, we had debts, I was on ADs, XH manipulated the children, went on about my bad habits etc (computer games rather than drink in my case, he kept trying to make me drink more though!). In some ways it was easier for me; XH was a bit of a coward when it came to confrontation, so when I told him to move out of the bedroom he actually did. In other ways more difficult, eg he had a reasonable case to say he was the main carer.

He said that since I was the one who wanted out, I would have to move out, leave them in the house and keep paying the bills. He said I was an unfit parent, accused me of adultery, tried to claim spousal maintenance, called me mad in front of the DCs. He lied through his teeth to blacken me in their eyes, whilst I was trying to do the "don't bad-mouth the other parent" thing you're supposed to do. The DCs were mostly old enough to decide who they would live with but the manipulation he tried on the youngest - then 9 - was shocking. (He'd worked out that the parent who keeps the children gets the benefits and a presumption of staying in the marital home, the bugger.)

I engaged a decent, reasonably priced lawyer specialising in family law and demanded no more than I thought was right: shared care of our child and a 50-50 split of everything, assets and debts alike. And that's exactly what I got. A year or so later I also got full time care of youngest DS, as XH clearly couldn't hack looking after a child, and the other DCs gradually migrated over to me as well.

Life isn't perfect now. I am working two low-paid jobs to make ends meet and not quite succeeding. Youngest DS is still showing some signs of psychological trauma. One of his brothers sleeps on the sofa because the house isn't big enough for us all. BUT: here we all are and I have got what is most important. My own place shared with DCs (and cats!), self-determination, and most importantly, an absence of arse.

Hope that's a bit of encouragement.

Courts can take financial contribution to the marriage into account, if the balance is exceptionally skewed, as I hope your sol will advise. This is part of my own current dispute re financial settlement. No kids involved, but DD(20), currently living in marital home with ex and me, thinks I am being obstructive, as I refuse to bad-mouth ex to her.

Hi Smiley, so sorry you are going through this.

Did I read correctly that you are sleeping on camp bed in dogs old room?

Why are you not in your own bed or with dd?

You have done nothing wrong but seem to be acting as if you are in the wrong, could you ask your H to move out? It seems you are making all the compromises whilst his living arrangements are unchanged.

Mind you, if there's not enough money to go round in the first place, my point may be irrelevant.

Seeing a sol does help a lot in making you feel empowered, ime

God how awful he sounds, especially manipulating the children like that. I think you need to start putting your foot down about that. I know you say it makes him worse but they need to see you are on their side. A simple "we wil not discuss this in front of the children, it's nothing to do with them" or "your son does not deserve to be spoken to like that" will let them see that you are the one putting their interests first not him. If they bring up living with him I think you have to be honest and say that they will still get to see you both whenever they want.